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Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
50/50 chance of breaking free eh? Seems fair.Dwailing wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
I'm currently in the camp that says "Destroy is Shepard sticking to his guns and choosing to slog on with what was his original motive from the beginning, since he has the stones to keep fighting, even if he has to sacrifice some things."
Rejection, well that's Shepard trying to play Captain Kirk, choosing not to stick to what he has been going for since the beginning since something unappealing was tacked on, but not completely breaking and going over to Control and remaining canny enough not to be tricked by Synthesis, basically demanding a third option, only to discover there isn't one.
In "Reject" Shepard is canny and wise enough not to fall for indoctrination, but not determined enough to break free, and so Harbinger kills him.
Perhaps, but there is one thing that gives me hope for the Reject ending. Starbinger gets visibly upset, even if he's only offering you one choice.
Seriously, it's possible for him to offer you only Control (which is weird in and of itself), declare that he is unhappy about being replaced, and then becomes pissed when you refuse to replace him. Really? There has to be something there.
Yeah, that's why I'm of the opinion that, in Rejection, Shepard ALSO breaks free from indoctrination.
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.Arian Dynas wrote...
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I agree with this assessment. It's in their best interests to let people speculate for eons while they keep pushing out DLC that fans will eat up in the desperate hope that it will finally be "the DLC" to prove one side or the other to be true.TJBartlemus wrote...
@zigamortis Sorry man. They just aren't going to outright say that IT is right or wrong. For 4 reasons: (I posted my reasons earlier today as well.)
They purposely didn't acnowledge the ending cause:
1- Speculations = hype = money.
2- If they catered to one side, the other would be angry. (This point illustrates that they have yet to prove or disprove)
3- They possibly proved both were right. Explained in WNT: EC (Also still need opinions on thread. It's too silent.)
4- They won't continue after the endings for the point of 1 and 2. Instead they will make before ending dlc that will provide excellent story, gameplay, and hints towards the endings making it a must buy by the Mass Effect fanbase.
In other words, they can drag this out for two years or more!
Dwailing wrote...
Yeah, that's why I'm of the opinion that, in Rejection, Shepard ALSO breaks free from indoctrination.
Andromidius wrote...
Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
That's what bridging DLC is for - aka Arrival.
D.Sharrah wrote...
And I still say that there is somethign fishy about the EC...even with all the discussion here (and I think that there has been some great finds/speculations), I can't exactly put my finger on why I feel like there is something wrong...wrong may not be the right word, fishy is better. Just fishy.
I really do need a "fish" smiley!
theyve stated that there will be information on the mass effect movie (dont know how i feel about that, hudson said there wouldnt be anything cannon) im sure there will be something on dlc, they know they have fans chomping at the bit after that cliff hangerD.Sharrah wrote...
I'm interested to see if they will drop anything at SDCC...perhaps the Leviathan DLC?
Arian Dynas wrote...
I'm currently in the camp that says "Destroy is Shepard sticking to his guns and choosing to slog on with what was his original motive from the beginning, since he has the stones to keep fighting, even if he has to sacrifice some things."
Rejection, well that's Shepard trying to play Captain Kirk, choosing not to stick to what he has been going for since the beginning since something unappealing was tacked on, but not completely breaking and going over to Control and remaining canny enough not to be tricked by Synthesis, basically demanding a third option, only to discover there isn't one.
In "Reject" Shepard is canny and wise enough not to fall for indoctrination, but not determined enough to break free, and so Harbinger kills him.
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.
another point to yours, the indoctrinated scientest at the outpost had TWO FRIGGEN DAYS to experiment or indoctrinate shepard while he was under.Auralius Carolus wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
That's what bridging DLC is for - aka Arrival.
And the events of Arrival are fairly literal and straightforward:
Shepard gets hit by a blastwave from a Reaper Device; one that has already indoctrinated EVERYONE else who has come in contact with it.
And if you survive the following confrontation long enough, Harbinger calls out to Shepard claiming that his mind will be his. This can only be taken two ways: Shepard is intended for processing, or indoctrination.
Xavendithas wrote...
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.
Implementing the IT would not fundamentally change the ending. The endings are horribly ambiguous and open to interpretation right now when taking into account all of the evidence that is still in-game that supports the IT.
To the casual gamer, who makes up the majority of consumers, it would. People forget spending lots of time on here, but most folks have no idea what IT even is. They don't frequent forums or participate in discourse like we do here. Regardless, a definitive "one way or the other" answer coming two years later is still outlandish and extremely unlikely. The more time that passes, the less likely it's going to happen.Xavendithas wrote...
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.
Implementing the IT would not fundamentally change the ending. The endings are horribly ambiguous and open to interpretation right now when taking into account all of the evidence that is still in-game that supports the IT.
Modifié par Big_Boss9, 29 juin 2012 - 02:52 .
jgibson14352 wrote...
another point to yours, the indoctrinated scientest at the outpost had TWO FRIGGEN DAYS to experiment or indoctrinate shepard while he was under.Auralius Carolus wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
That's what bridging DLC is for - aka Arrival.
And the events of Arrival are fairly literal and straightforward:
Shepard gets hit by a blastwave from a Reaper Device; one that has already indoctrinated EVERYONE else who has come in contact with it.
And if you survive the following confrontation long enough, Harbinger calls out to Shepard claiming that his mind will be his. This can only be taken two ways: Shepard is intended for processing, or indoctrination.
HellishFiend wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.
Implementing the IT would not fundamentally change the ending. The endings are horribly ambiguous and open to interpretation right now when taking into account all of the evidence that is still in-game that supports the IT.
Exactly. The misconception that IT changes the ending needs to go away. IT is shifting perspective outside of Shepard's mind and back into the real world in order to continue the events taking place in reality. That changes nothing. Everything that happened in Shepard's mind still happened. And that's why BW's public statements are a clever play on words.
Modifié par FellishBeast, 29 juin 2012 - 02:52 .
Auralius Carolus wrote...
While experimentation is possible, I personally subscribe to the notion of Nanite Implantation, which would have occured during the Rho pulse. If further exposure was required, yes, they would certainly have more than enough time.
Also, many of the Indoctrination Victims of Rho experienced visions of the Reapers conquering The Milky Way- a vision Shepard has if you let the timer run out after awakening... a vision that may hold some clues as to what we may expect in the long run.
That is a markedly unpleasant notion.
BansheeOwnage wrote...
I'm not giving up yet, but maybe bad writing? I'm just not sure anymore. But I'm also not sure how they could possibly screw up so badly.HellishFiend wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
I'm currently in the camp that says "Destroy is Shepard sticking to his guns and choosing to slog on with what was his original motive from the beginning, since he has the stones to keep fighting, even if he has to sacrifice some things."
Rejection, well that's Shepard trying to play Captain Kirk, choosing not to stick to what he has been going for since the beginning since something unappealing was tacked on, but not completely breaking and going over to Control and remaining canny enough not to be tricked by Synthesis, basically demanding a third option, only to discover there isn't one.
In "Reject" Shepard is canny and wise enough not to fall for indoctrination, but not determined enough to break free, and so Harbinger kills him.
Perhaps, but there is one thing that gives me hope for the Reject ending. Starbinger gets visibly upset, even if he's only offering you one choice.
Seriously, it's possible for him to offer you only Control (which is weird in and of itself), declare that he is unhappy about being replaced, and then becomes pissed when you refuse to replace him. Really? There has to be something there.
Auralius Carolus wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
That's what bridging DLC is for - aka Arrival.
And the events of Arrival are fairly literal and straightforward:
Shepard gets hit by a blastwave from a Reaper Device; one that has already indoctrinated EVERYONE else who has come in contact with it.
And if you survive the following confrontation long enough, Harbinger calls out to Shepard claiming that his mind will be his. This can only be taken two ways: Shepard is intended for processing, or indoctrination.
Big_Boss9 wrote...
To the casual gamer, which makes up the majority of consumers, it would. People forget spending lots of time on here, but most folks have no idea what IT even is. They don't frequent forums or participate in discourse like we do here. The more time that passes, the less likely it's going to happen.Xavendithas wrote...
Big_Boss9 wrote...
I think they have a year, at most, and that's pushing it. Fallout 3's DLC ending modification came at the 7 month mark. A DLC that would fundamentally change the ending of a massively popular gaming franchise two years after the fact would be borderline ridiculous. I really don't think we'll get anything in-game one way or the other. A comment from Hudson et al years later is probably the best we're going to get, if at all.
Implementing the IT would not fundamentally change the ending. The endings are horribly ambiguous and open to interpretation right now when taking into account all of the evidence that is still in-game that supports the IT.
Modifié par Xavendithas, 29 juin 2012 - 02:56 .
Joedogg9999 wrote...
That and its 2nd part is easily the best IT video. It puts absolutely everything together including new things ive never seen including the fact that kaidens and ashleys bodies can be seen in a pile of ME1 characters which only appear after the beam hits shepard.
This might be the utmost genious thing in all of mass effect and the most damning evidwnce of IT imo. The uniforms they are wearing are the exact same ones they wore during the cutscene on virmire when you have to chose which one dies.
This is genious because it shows the deteimental guilt shepard has for all the people he has failes.
I just cant see how the IT is false. How can there possibly be a complete set of genious subtlities and forshadowings all by accident?? Thats impossible.
Andromidius wrote...
Auralius Carolus wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
Wolfram Tarant wrote...
True, from the perspective of IT. But I mean from the literalist perspective... it seems unlikely they could pull it off. Plus they would have to explain in game that the ending of ME3 was an indoctrination attempt. I just don't see how it would work. It would be pretty amazing though, for IT'ers at least.
That's what bridging DLC is for - aka Arrival.
And the events of Arrival are fairly literal and straightforward:
Shepard gets hit by a blastwave from a Reaper Device; one that has already indoctrinated EVERYONE else who has come in contact with it.
And if you survive the following confrontation long enough, Harbinger calls out to Shepard claiming that his mind will be his. This can only be taken two ways: Shepard is intended for processing, or indoctrination.
Pretty much, yep.
Indoctrination DLC would pick up directly after the breath scene, have Shepard wake up and groggly raise to his feet. Harbinger would be looming in the distance still, and Husk forces are moving in around Shepard. Harbinger would begin gloating its victory, and then Shepard interupts and reveals the indoctrination attempts had failed and he/she was still free.
Then before Harbinger can capture Shepard (its obsession with Shepard continuing), reinforcements arrive to fight off the Husks - either Krogan led by Wrex, Rachni led by the Queen, Geth led by the Primes, or Alliance survivors led by Major Coates if none of those were available/alive. The Husk forces are destroyed, and Harbinger rages as it prepares to destroy its prize...
Then the Leviathan of Dis arrives. Harbinger shrieks with a mixture of rage and fear at the sight of the ancient betrayer, and after being badly wounded by the Leviathan it flees the battle.
...just some random thoughts. Take them as you will.
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