55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Auralius Carolus]

Turbo_J wrote...

Fine: 'Ship Yard'

That better?

Hmmmmmm... That's gotten me thinking. What is one of the big mysteries about the Reapers, that was expounded during both ME1 and ME2? Their power source. The Protheans thought they retreated to Dark Space to hybernate, safely, and conserve power. And, likewise, all of their devices: The Citadel, the Relays- no one knows how they stay powered.

And what is the Crucible? A massive power source that is intended to dish out a HUGE amount of energy, utilizing both the Citadel and the Relays and is intended to affect all of the Reapers. And what really pisses off the Star Child? Refusing to use it... while the Reapers suspiciously ignore it and oddly failed to stop it over millions of years.

What if that thing really was left, intentionally, by the Reapers? Not as a weapon, but as a massive generator of some sorts, that would allow them to continue their centuries-long harvesting without stop, while also recharging their heirlooms for the next cycle? One final test and trap...



Just a little creative thinking, but it is a thought...

[Auralius Carolus]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

[Salient Archer]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:
*snip*

What we know of the reapers from Sovereign in ME1 is not even close to what we get from the Catalyst in ME3. Doens't match up, at all...

Exactly; not only does Sovereign clearly show independent sentience and even a unique personality but his behavior isn't even that far removed from that of Harbingers (in ME2). Even the short conversation you have the Reaper on Rannoch shows some degree of independence when he says the line "Harbinger speaks of you" like they discussed it during a late night poker match.

With the rumor of the Leviathan of Dis being a Reaper who decided to defect from their plans, it starts to show that the Catalyst is actually lying to us more and more... Could Harbinger have been the one present during the beam charge because he is the one personally playing this twisted mind game with Shepard?

[FellishBeast]

Salient Archer wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:
*snip*

What we know of the reapers from Sovereign in ME1 is not even close to what we get from the Catalyst in ME3. Doens't match up, at all...

Exactly; not only does Sovereign clearly show independent sentience and even a unique personality but his behavior isn't even that far removed from that of Harbingers (in ME2). Even the short conversation you have the Reaper on Rannoch shows some degree of independence when he says the line "Harbinger speaks of you" like they discussed it during a late night poker match.

With the rumor of the Leviathan of Dis being a Reaper who decided to defect from their plans, it starts to show that the Catalyst is actually lying to us more and more... Could Harbinger have been the one present during the beam charge because he is the one personally playing this twisted mind game with Shepard?

I really hope so. I can't imagine BioWare would ruin such an amazing villain like that.

[MaximizedAction]

Salient Archer wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:
*snip*

What we know of the reapers from Sovereign in ME1 is not even close to what we get from the Catalyst in ME3. Doens't match up, at all...

Exactly; not only does Sovereign clearly show independent sentience and even a unique personality but his behavior isn't even that far removed from that of Harbingers (in ME2). Even the short conversation you have the Reaper on Rannoch shows some degree of independence when he says the line "Harbinger speaks of you" like they discussed it during a late night poker match.

With the rumor of the Leviathan of Dis being a Reaper who decided to defect from their plans, it starts to show that the Catalyst is actually lying to us more and more... Could Harbinger have been the one present during the beam charge because he is the one personally playing this twisted mind game with Shepard?

Oh god, please THIS...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 juin 2012 - 08:13 .

[FellishBeast]

Heck, Harbinger probably realized his direct way of f*cking with Shepard in ME2 didn't have any affect on him, so after the Collectors were wasted Harby decided to employ more subtle tactics. "You can't help me" reeks of Harbinger, imo. It's his style, just more subtle.

[Rifneno]

Hmm. You know what's interesting? Harbinger refers to itself as a gestalt intelligence. "We are Harbinger." Sovereign refers to itself a singular intelligence. "I am the vanguard of your destruction." Not just those two sentences either, it's a pattern. With both of them.

[Earthborn_Shepard]

You know, even with the EC, IT can live on in a smaller way: I still believe that the child was never real and that the dreams were indoctrination attempts by Harby. Maybe the ending is at face value, but that doesn't ban IT completely.

[plfranke]

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. You know what's interesting? Harbinger refers to itself as a gestalt intelligence. "We are Harbinger." Sovereign refers to itself a singular intelligence. "I am the vanguard of your destruction." Not just those two sentences either, it's a pattern. With both of them.

The problem is that Harbinger switches in between I and we. As does the catalyst. Examples from Harbinger "We are Harbinger" "MY attacks will tear you apart" "I will direct this personally"  Examples from the catalyst "The Reapers are MINE. I control them." "But WE found a way to stop that from happening."

[Arian Dynas]

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

Well considering the Catalyst says "The Citadel is part of me" you would think he'd have some level of control over himself, you know, unless he was full of crap...

Basically, the only way the endings make sense is if the entire team had no knowledge whatsoever of Mass Effect 1...

the game they wrote and were heavily involved in, as well as the basis for the entire series.

At least Ultima 9 had the excuse of having a creative team formed up of a bunch of morons who had no idea about anything Ultima.

Such is not the case here.

[Starbuck8]

plfranke wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Hmm. You know what's interesting? Harbinger refers to itself as a gestalt intelligence. "We are Harbinger." Sovereign refers to itself a singular intelligence. "I am the vanguard of your destruction." Not just those two sentences either, it's a pattern. With both of them.

The problem is that Harbinger switches in between I and we. As does the catalyst. Examples from Harbinger "We are Harbinger" "MY attacks will tear you apart" "I will direct this personally"  Examples from the catalyst "The Reapers are MINE. I control them." "But WE found a way to stop that from happening."

That's not a problem. That's a matching pattern

[Arian Dynas]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Fine: 'Ship Yard'

That better?

Hmmmmmm... That's gotten me thinking. What is one of the big mysteries about the Reapers, that was expounded during both ME1 and ME2? Their power source. The Protheans thought they retreated to Dark Space to hybernate, safely, and conserve power. And, likewise, all of their devices: The Citadel, the Relays- no one knows how they stay powered.

And what is the Crucible? A massive power source that is intended to dish out a HUGE amount of energy, utilizing both the Citadel and the Relays and is intended to affect all of the Reapers. And what really pisses off the Star Child? Refusing to use it... while the Reapers suspiciously ignore it and oddly failed to stop it over millions of years.

What if that thing really was left, intentionally, by the Reapers? Not as a weapon, but as a massive generator of some sorts, that would allow them to continue their centuries-long harvesting without stop, while also recharging their heirlooms for the next cycle? One final test and trap...



Just a little creative thinking, but it is a thought...

...

OOOH I LIKE THAT ONE! :happy:

[Starbuck8]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Fine: 'Ship Yard'

That better?

Hmmmmmm... That's gotten me thinking. What is one of the big mysteries about the Reapers, that was expounded during both ME1 and ME2? Their power source. The Protheans thought they retreated to Dark Space to hybernate, safely, and conserve power. And, likewise, all of their devices: The Citadel, the Relays- no one knows how they stay powered.

And what is the Crucible? A massive power source that is intended to dish out a HUGE amount of energy, utilizing both the Citadel and the Relays and is intended to affect all of the Reapers. And what really pisses off the Star Child? Refusing to use it... while the Reapers suspiciously ignore it and oddly failed to stop it over millions of years.

What if that thing really was left, intentionally, by the Reapers? Not as a weapon, but as a massive generator of some sorts, that would allow them to continue their centuries-long harvesting without stop, while also recharging their heirlooms for the next cycle? One final test and trap...



Just a little creative thinking, but it is a thought...

...

OOOH I LIKE THAT ONE! :happy:

Yeah, that's an interesting idea.

[Salient Archer]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

But if the Catalyst was not only in the Citadel but is the Citadel than why would they even need Sovereign to stay behind to send the signal through? Surely the Catalyst could decide when organics had reached their apex considering the Catalyst had the most privileged view of the situation.

[FellishBeast]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Fine: 'Ship Yard'

That better?

Hmmmmmm... That's gotten me thinking. What is one of the big mysteries about the Reapers, that was expounded during both ME1 and ME2? Their power source. The Protheans thought they retreated to Dark Space to hybernate, safely, and conserve power. And, likewise, all of their devices: The Citadel, the Relays- no one knows how they stay powered.

And what is the Crucible? A massive power source that is intended to dish out a HUGE amount of energy, utilizing both the Citadel and the Relays and is intended to affect all of the Reapers. And what really pisses off the Star Child? Refusing to use it... while the Reapers suspiciously ignore it and oddly failed to stop it over millions of years.

What if that thing really was left, intentionally, by the Reapers? Not as a weapon, but as a massive generator of some sorts, that would allow them to continue their centuries-long harvesting without stop, while also recharging their heirlooms for the next cycle? One final test and trap...



Just a little creative thinking, but it is a thought...

...

OOOH I LIKE THAT ONE! :happy:

Yeah, that's an interesting idea.

Oh wow...I skipped over that a few times and just now read it. Wow. That's sort of mind-blowing. I'm sure there are flaws in the idea, but the premise makes a lot of sense. That would...wow. Great going!

[Starbuck8]

Salient Archer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

But if the Catalyst was not only in the Citadel but is the Citadel than why would they even need Sovereign to stay behind to send the signal through? Surely the Catalyst could decide when organics had reached their apex considering the Catalyst had the most privileged view of the situation.

Yeah... the seat of galactic civilization lives inside him

[plfranke]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

Well considering the Catalyst says "The Citadel is part of me" you would think he'd have some level of control over himself, you know, unless he was full of crap...

Basically, the only way the endings make sense is if the entire team had no knowledge whatsoever of Mass Effect 1...

the game they wrote and were heavily involved in, as well as the basis for the entire series.

At least Ultima 9 had the excuse of having a creative team formed up of a bunch of morons who had no idea about anything Ultima.

Such is not the case here.

And they easily could have adressed this in the EC as well. He could have said something like I've been in hyper sleep for yadi yadi yada. There were ways it could have been handled. It would have been much better listening to him explain that than the science behind fire.

[Carmin_Steele]

(IT Believer, have been since day 1, however, I haven't posted here except once about 50 pages back, so HI!)

Sovereign was SO much cooler than anything else. That one conversation is totally awesome.

Now, other things that have been touched on today that I've wanted to comment on. The idea of Refusal being 'giving up' vs 'Destroy' and the 'Shepard's Breath' thing.

I'm in the camp that Refusal is the best ending. Shepard's speech and resolve is strong, strong enough s/he overcomes the injuries and stands up defiant. Why don't we see the Breathe Scene? It doesn't show Shepard get injured or die, it fades to black and plays Liara's time capsule. There is no death scene or an explosion that insinuates a death, ergo no need for the Breath. I think there is more coming, especially with the hints involved in the Leviathan DLC leak.... More DLC to fill in and show why Rejection is the best. 'I will not let Fear change who I am!"

Why do we get the Breath Scene in Destroy? That I'm not 100% on really, I have mixed feelings in that .1) I see it as the 'suicide' option similar to TIM and Saren. The only way to win is to shoot that tube, which can probably kill me. Similar to the how TIM and Saren are so far under the only way they can see escaping the influence is the destroy thier plans... so, Shepard dies. 2) Shepard is acknowledging the brat's logic and still using their methods to kill them, making me see it as somewhat tainted.

But the Breath! Well.. that idea of the resuscitation device from when Shep crashes into the Citdel? That's the only thing I can come up with to back-up my idea. Shep thinks the Reapers are dead and the Reapers expect Shep to be dead, but the implants kick Shep back to life.

The Crucible being the generator that keeps the Relays and the Reapers running is an -excellent- idea IMO, and it makes sense on why the brat becomes angry if you refuse to use it, as you're denying them the work you've but in for the power source they want to use. I can't help but see it as a trap of some sort.

[Arian Dynas]

plfranke wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

Well considering the Catalyst says "The Citadel is part of me" you would think he'd have some level of control over himself, you know, unless he was full of crap...

Basically, the only way the endings make sense is if the entire team had no knowledge whatsoever of Mass Effect 1...

the game they wrote and were heavily involved in, as well as the basis for the entire series.

At least Ultima 9 had the excuse of having a creative team formed up of a bunch of morons who had no idea about anything Ultima.

Such is not the case here.

And they easily could have adressed this in the EC as well. He could have said something like I've been in hyper sleep for yadi yadi yada. There were ways it could have been handled. It would have been much better listening to him explain that than the science behind fire.

Yeah, they could have just claimed he needed to be awakened by the Keepers to start the cycle or some **** like that, but they don't.

[Salient Archer]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

But if the Catalyst was not only in the Citadel but is the Citadel than why would they even need Sovereign to stay behind to send the signal through? Surely the Catalyst could decide when organics had reached their apex considering the Catalyst had the most privileged view of the situation.

Yeah... the seat of galactic civilization lives inside him

I never thought of it like that, and the things that would've taken place inside of him  ... umm ... ohhh ... ahhh ... wow ... that's so, so wrong.

[Starbuck8]

Well since we're reminiscing about sovereign, I'll just put this here: www.youtube.com/watch

[plfranke]

is there any consensus yet on why we get the breath scene in destroy but not refusal? It's a really interesting subject. Arguably he tries to dissuade you more from refusal than he does destroy which makes absolutely no sense especially in a scenario where destroy is your only option and it would obliderate everything.

[Auralius Carolus]

Salient Archer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Tea time with Sovereign:

*Snip*

The catalyst also begs the question why they even needed Sovereign. Couldnt the Catalyst have opened the relay or something? I mean we see him shut of the Crucible beam in the Rejection ending so clearly he has some control of the station...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

But if the Catalyst was not only in the Citadel but is the Citadel than why would they even need Sovereign to stay behind to send the signal through? Surely the Catalyst could decide when organics had reached their apex considering the Catalyst had the most privileged view of the situation.

This is not explained. The use of an entire Reaper for observation and signaling, instead of remote surveying and signaling is... odd.

[Starbuck8]

Salient Archer wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

According to ME1, the Protheans cut the signal that had the Keepers summon the Reapers back into Space. Now, if you notice, the "Control" panel actually has four handles just as Keepers have four hands. I suspect the Catalyst lost a great deal of its power because of this, as what you are seeing is likely holographic and requires a physical body to perform certain actions.

Exactly why the Keepers were used, instead of a direct signal, is not explained.

But if the Catalyst was not only in the Citadel but is the Citadel than why would they even need Sovereign to stay behind to send the signal through? Surely the Catalyst could decide when organics had reached their apex considering the Catalyst had the most privileged view of the situation.

Yeah... the seat of galactic civilization lives inside him

I never thought of it like that, and the things that would've taken place inside of him  ... umm ... ohhh ... ahhh ... wow ... that's so, so wrong.

Lol yeah, it sounded so wrong when I wrote it, I had to leave it

Modifié par Starbuck8, 29 juin 2012 - 08:39 .

[Salient Archer]

Carmin_Steele wrote...

(IT Believer, have been since day 1, however, I haven't posted here except once about 50 pages back, so HI!)

Sovereign was SO much cooler than anything else. That one conversation is totally awesome.

Now, other things that have been touched on today that I've wanted to comment on. The idea of Refusal being 'giving up' vs 'Destroy' and the 'Shepard's Breath' thing.

I'm in the camp that Refusal is the best ending. Shepard's speech and resolve is strong, strong enough s/he overcomes the injuries and stands up defiant. Why don't we see the Breathe Scene? It doesn't show Shepard get injured or die, it fades to black and plays Liara's time capsule. There is no death scene or an explosion that insinuates a death, ergo no need for the Breath. I think there is more coming, especially with the hints involved in the Leviathan DLC leak.... More DLC to fill in and show why Rejection is the best. 'I will not let Fear change who I am!"

Why do we get the Breath Scene in Destroy? That I'm not 100% on really, I have mixed feelings in that .1) I see it as the 'suicide' option similar to TIM and Saren. The only way to win is to shoot that tube, which can probably kill me. Similar to the how TIM and Saren are so far under the only way they can see escaping the influence is the destroy thier plans... so, Shepard dies. 2) Shepard is acknowledging the brat's logic and still using their methods to kill them, making me see it as somewhat tainted.

But the Breath! Well.. that idea of the resuscitation device from when Shep crashes into the Citdel? That's the only thing I can come up with to back-up my idea. Shep thinks the Reapers are dead and the Reapers expect Shep to be dead, but the implants kick Shep back to life.

The Crucible being the generator that keeps the Relays and the Reapers running is an -excellent- idea IMO, and it makes sense on why the brat becomes angry if you refuse to use it, as you're denying them the work you've but in for the power source they want to use. I can't help but see it as a trap of some sort.

I like you. You need to post more often.