55528 réponses à ce sujet

[insomniak9]

paxxton wrote...

It's a wreckage of an Alliance dreadnought.

Exactly. Not part of the Citadel. 

[paxxton]

insomniak9 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

It's a wreckage of an Alliance dreadnought.

Exactly. Not part of the Citadel. 

When I first saw the sides of the ramp leading to the control room at the Citadel my impression was that they resembled parts of an Alliance ship. But back then that thought seemed too far-fetched.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 03:30 .

[insomniak9]

Your impression was correct. This is the first thing I looked at in great detail when I played through the EC. Initially I missed them, but they're too obvious to ignore now. They make bloody big shadows on the floor from lighting that doesn't exist. Your attention is supposed to be drawn to them.

Modifié par insomniak9, 29 juin 2012 - 03:29 .

[Turbo_J]

Turbo_J wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hum, it's interesting how similar it is when you get up and after the little chat with the Catalyst.
(Nothing visual as it's best to do a screen of both and then just switch between them in quick succession, tried it with transparency but the result isn't really good)
The Makos on your left and right side create a path that is exactly the width of the path you have at the Catalyst's. The beam lines up nicely (though the Crucible beam is further away, might be interesting to test if the distance lines up with the point where you got hit pre EC), Control and Destroy options are on top of the Reaper panels. The path that gets raised to the Synthesis is also starting at about the same point as the little bridge to the conduit beam.

I'm starting to see this too; that Shep is there and the Citadel surroundings are a mental manifestation. The shock to him/her on the citadel is actually them waking up the first time waking up on the ground in London.

Given the distance to the decision chamber, could it be that the transport crash is where the full hallucination starts? It's the only way the Normandy pickup scene makes any sense.

From the transport crash to the ride up the beam is at the transport crash site.

From the revival 'shock' to the console is the trek from the crash site to the beam. The physical distance may not be the same but time passes differently in ones head.

Edit:

It would be worth checking the distance from the mako near miss and the original laser hit too, but I still can't see any of the beam run being reality - waking dream, yes but not full reality. I can get hit directly by harbie 2-3 times before the 'scripted' hit, and seeing the unlimited vehicles and soldiers. I know it's part of the 'scene intensity' mechanic, but is there a precedent for this anywhere else in the game? It's video-gamey. Something BW usually tried to avoid.

Bump:

This fits with 'Refuse' resulting in a 'loss' of sorts. I think destroy isn't a choice given to Shep by Harbie, but presented by the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. Shep is partially indoctrinated and inaction is what would cause the cycle to continue; failure to shut down that indoctrination signal and eventually wake up... Not sure why shutting down a single indoctrination device would lead to a victory, however. Unless there is more to come.

[Rifneno]

Dwailing wrote...

If he just killed the Joker, life would be awefully boring.   And it's not ALWAYS Batman's fault that the Joker comes back.  That son of a shisno has come back from the dead so many times that he has a TROPE named after him.  Joker Immunity.  

On your other point, I agree completely.  I'm just saying what the other guy said.

Eh.  A recurring villain should stay alive because he's hard to kill, not because the hero refuses to kill him because it'd be "wrong" and instead lets him go knowing he'll kill scores of innocent people just to soothe his own midguided conscious.  This from a character that's supposed to be dark?  It truly baffles me how that winged rat-themed idiot has the fanbase he does.

[EpicTacoProject]

Turbo_J wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hum, it's interesting how similar it is when you get up and after the little chat with the Catalyst.
(Nothing visual as it's best to do a screen of both and then just switch between them in quick succession, tried it with transparency but the result isn't really good)
The Makos on your left and right side create a path that is exactly the width of the path you have at the Catalyst's. The beam lines up nicely (though the Crucible beam is further away, might be interesting to test if the distance lines up with the point where you got hit pre EC), Control and Destroy options are on top of the Reaper panels. The path that gets raised to the Synthesis is also starting at about the same point as the little bridge to the conduit beam.

I'm starting to see this too; that Shep is there and the Citadel surroundings are a mental manifestation. The shock to him/her on the citadel is actually them waking up the first time waking up on the ground in London.

Given the distance to the decision chamber, could it be that the transport crash is where the full hallucination starts? It's the only way the Normandy pickup scene makes any sense.

From the transport crash to the ride up the beam is at the transport crash site.

From the revival 'shock' to the console is the trek from the crash site to the beam. The physical distance may not be the same but time passes differently in ones head.

Edit:

It would be worth checking the distance from the mako near miss and the original laser hit too, but I still can't see any of the beam run being reality - waking dream, yes but not full reality. I can get hit directly by harbie 2-3 times before the 'scripted' hit, and seeing the unlimited vehicles and soldiers. I know it's part of the 'scene intensity' mechanic, but is there a precedent for this anywhere else in the game? It's video-gamey. Something BW usually tried to avoid.

Bump:

This fits with 'Refuse' resulting in a 'loss' of sorts. I think destroy isn't a choice given to Shep by Harbie, but presented by the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. Shep is partially indoctrinated and inaction is what would cause the cycle to continue; failure to shut down that indoctrination signal and eventually wake up... Not sure why shutting down a single indoctrination device would lead to a victory, however. Unless there is more to come.

I agree with Destroy possibly being the representation of the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. The indoctrinated part of his mind then makes him believe that choosing Destroy will lead to the geth and EDI dieing.

[paxxton]

Rifneno wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

If he just killed the Joker, life would be awefully boring.   And it's not ALWAYS Batman's fault that the Joker comes back.  That son of a shisno has come back from the dead so many times that he has a TROPE named after him.  Joker Immunity.  

On your other point, I agree completely.  I'm just saying what the other guy said.

Eh.  A recurring villain should stay alive because he's hard to kill, not because the hero refuses to kill him because it'd be "wrong" and instead lets him go knowing he'll kill scores of innocent people just to soothe his own midguided conscious.  This from a character that's supposed to be dark?  It truly baffles me how that winged rat-themed idiot has the fanbase he does.

There's no Shepard without Vakarian. There's no Batman without Joker.

EDIT: Btw, Garrus is alive after the ME3 ending. That proves Shepard's alive!

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 03:36 .

[Judas Bock]

This has probably been said already, but when you're firing the (thanix?) cannons on the destroyer in front of the beam, don't they say something about a reaper (indoctrination) signal coming from the beam structure being the reason for the missiles not hitting? This along with this:

Turbo_J wrote...

*snip*

certainly fits with there being an active indoctrination signal there which could explain the hallucinations starting even before the Harby blast.

[Xavendithas]

Judas Bock wrote...

This has probably been said already, but when you're firing the (thanix?) cannons on the destroyer in front of the beam, don't they say something about a reaper (indoctrination) signal coming from the beam structure being the reason for the missiles not hitting? This along with this:

Turbo_J wrote...

*snip*

certainly fits with there being an active indoctrination signal there which could explain the hallucinations starting even before the Harby blast.

This got me thinking. What is the significance of this datapad sitting in the FOB?

Thoughts of civilians not being able to help themselves from entering a building where indoctrination is occuring caused me to remember something you see in the Vancouver scene. Right after the reaper blows up the committee chambers in Vancouver, and you are running with Anderson to meet up with the Normandy, if you look down at the ground you see little pixelated civilians running out of the buildings. The thing that I thought odd about it, that didn't register until just now, is that all the people rushing out of the buildings are running directly at the reaper standing outside of the Alliance facility.

[Turbo_J]

I think we are really starting to put together something cohesive here. I also think there are downed cruisers on either side of the beam run; the guns during the walk to the console on the Citadel, but I'll have to run it again to verify.

Also, the Shadow Broker ship dampen blades rise up to look like the inner pillars of the beam area. It's inconsistent in positioning so there may be something else along the run that looks like those things. I recall seeing some kind of antenna like structure with large sections of sheet metal, so maybe.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 29 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[MegumiAzusa]

EpicTacoProject wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hum, it's interesting how similar it is when you get up and after the little chat with the Catalyst.
(Nothing visual as it's best to do a screen of both and then just switch between them in quick succession, tried it with transparency but the result isn't really good)
The Makos on your left and right side create a path that is exactly the width of the path you have at the Catalyst's. The beam lines up nicely (though the Crucible beam is further away, might be interesting to test if the distance lines up with the point where you got hit pre EC), Control and Destroy options are on top of the Reaper panels. The path that gets raised to the Synthesis is also starting at about the same point as the little bridge to the conduit beam.

I'm starting to see this too; that Shep is there and the Citadel surroundings are a mental manifestation. The shock to him/her on the citadel is actually them waking up the first time waking up on the ground in London.

Given the distance to the decision chamber, could it be that the transport crash is where the full hallucination starts? It's the only way the Normandy pickup scene makes any sense.

From the transport crash to the ride up the beam is at the transport crash site.

From the revival 'shock' to the console is the trek from the crash site to the beam. The physical distance may not be the same but time passes differently in ones head.

Edit:

It would be worth checking the distance from the mako near miss and the original laser hit too, but I still can't see any of the beam run being reality - waking dream, yes but not full reality. I can get hit directly by harbie 2-3 times before the 'scripted' hit, and seeing the unlimited vehicles and soldiers. I know it's part of the 'scene intensity' mechanic, but is there a precedent for this anywhere else in the game? It's video-gamey. Something BW usually tried to avoid.

Bump:

This fits with 'Refuse' resulting in a 'loss' of sorts. I think destroy isn't a choice given to Shep by Harbie, but presented by the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. Shep is partially indoctrinated and inaction is what would cause the cycle to continue; failure to shut down that indoctrination signal and eventually wake up... Not sure why shutting down a single indoctrination device would lead to a victory, however. Unless there is more to come.

I agree with Destroy possibly being the representation of the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. The indoctrinated part of his mind then makes him believe that choosing Destroy will lead to the geth and EDI dieing.

I disagree. When the last thing you are doing is to get Javik with low EMS he still tells you you have doubts etcetc, with high EMS he compliments about his willpower. This would make Destory only available with high EMS, which it isn't, so it has to be a choice given by Harby.

[MegumiAzusa]

Turbo_J wrote...

I think we are really starting to put together something cohesive here. I also think there are downed cruisers on either side of the beam run; the guns during the walk to the console on the Citadel, but I'll have to run it again to verify.

Also, the Shadow Broker ship dampen blades rise up to look like the inner pillars of the beam area. It's inconsistent in positioning so there may be something else along the run that looks like those things. I recall seeing some kind of antenna like structure with large sections of sheet metal, so maybe.

The one on the right is the same model as one of the Turian ships crashed on Palavens moon (btw I was always quite baffled why you don't need a helmet there...)

[Turbo_J]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpicTacoProject wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Hum, it's interesting how similar it is when you get up and after the little chat with the Catalyst.
(Nothing visual as it's best to do a screen of both and then just switch between them in quick succession, tried it with transparency but the result isn't really good)
The Makos on your left and right side create a path that is exactly the width of the path you have at the Catalyst's. The beam lines up nicely (though the Crucible beam is further away, might be interesting to test if the distance lines up with the point where you got hit pre EC), Control and Destroy options are on top of the Reaper panels. The path that gets raised to the Synthesis is also starting at about the same point as the little bridge to the conduit beam.

I'm starting to see this too; that Shep is there and the Citadel surroundings are a mental manifestation. The shock to him/her on the citadel is actually them waking up the first time waking up on the ground in London.

Given the distance to the decision chamber, could it be that the transport crash is where the full hallucination starts? It's the only way the Normandy pickup scene makes any sense.

From the transport crash to the ride up the beam is at the transport crash site.

From the revival 'shock' to the console is the trek from the crash site to the beam. The physical distance may not be the same but time passes differently in ones head.

Edit:

It would be worth checking the distance from the mako near miss and the original laser hit too, but I still can't see any of the beam run being reality - waking dream, yes but not full reality. I can get hit directly by harbie 2-3 times before the 'scripted' hit, and seeing the unlimited vehicles and soldiers. I know it's part of the 'scene intensity' mechanic, but is there a precedent for this anywhere else in the game? It's video-gamey. Something BW usually tried to avoid.

Bump:

This fits with 'Refuse' resulting in a 'loss' of sorts. I think destroy isn't a choice given to Shep by Harbie, but presented by the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. Shep is partially indoctrinated and inaction is what would cause the cycle to continue; failure to shut down that indoctrination signal and eventually wake up... Not sure why shutting down a single indoctrination device would lead to a victory, however. Unless there is more to come.

I agree with Destroy possibly being the representation of the strong willed side of Shep's subconscious. The indoctrinated part of his mind then makes him believe that choosing Destroy will lead to the geth and EDI dieing.

I disagree. When the last thing you are doing is to get Javik with low EMS he still tells you you have doubts etcetc, with high EMS he compliments about his willpower. This would make Destory only available with high EMS, which it isn't, so it has to be a choice given by Harby.

With low EMS it's likely Shep spent far less time 'scurrying around trying to solve a problem that can't be fixed'. In this case, long run indoctrination has not had the ability to pound on his resolve. I've always believed that low EMS destroy is because the Indoctrination attack is too short. It's also backed up by moral and ethical choices if you chose to keep the collector base and only get control. You already are corrupted at that point in ME2.

[Judas Bock]

Also, now that we're talking similarities to past events/objects I'll bring this up again:

Judas Bock wrote...

Hi everyone.

I'll just repost what I previously most clearly posted in another thread:

One
of the points in IT is how a lot of what happens on the Citadel can be
seen as being based on Shepard's memories (Shadowbroker ship, Saren/TIM
suicide), and in the EC I noticed a new memory-based snippet.

The
new scene where you actually see Shepard arrive on the Citadel, he
teleports out of a device and flies in an arc onto the ground, and this
arrival to me seemed very similar to how the Mako arrives on the Citadel
in ME1.

The mood and even the cutting between angles is similar.

Here are youtube links if anyone's interested in comparing for themselves:

ME1: www.youtube.com/watch (the relevant stuff ends when the Mako has stopped moving, at about 1:33)

ME3: www.youtube.com/watch (the relevant stuff ends when Shepard has stopped moving, at about 3:30)

While not exactly the same, I'd say the similarities are undeniable.

This
to me was an obvious new clue to the IT crowd, because the ME team must
certainly know of that the IT-ers have talked about these
similiarities, and adding a new great similarity can't just be a
coincidence, it must have been done on purpose.

(original thread here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12814321)

Any comments on this now that the IT thread seems more willing to discuss IT evidence again?

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Judas Bock wrote...

This has probably been said already, but when you're firing the (thanix?) cannons on the destroyer in front of the beam, don't they say something about a reaper (indoctrination) signal coming from the beam structure being the reason for the missiles not hitting? This along with this:

Turbo_J wrote...

*snip*

certainly fits with there being an active indoctrination signal there which could explain the hallucinations starting even before the Harby blast.

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong but I only saw the beam in the Destroy ending epilogue(High EMS). Thoughts on that?

[insomniak9]

I'm not sold on that Mako / Shep similarity

[Dwailing]

You know, I was thinking about what that sound could be, and I had a thought (Actually, this might have been the FIRST thought I had when I heard it.). It sounds kind of like a defibrillator. Now, we've not seen ANYTHING to suggest that Shepard's armor or implants contain one of these, so what I was thinking was maybe it's the ground forces in the real world trying to revive him.

[insomniak9]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Judas Bock wrote...

This has probably been said already, but when you're firing the (thanix?) cannons on the destroyer in front of the beam, don't they say something about a reaper (indoctrination) signal coming from the beam structure being the reason for the missiles not hitting? This along with this:

Turbo_J wrote...

*snip*

certainly fits with there being an active indoctrination signal there which could explain the hallucinations starting even before the Harby blast.

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong but I only saw the beam in the Destroy ending epilogue(High EMS). Thoughts on that?

Which beam?

[Dwailing]

insomniak9 wrote...

I'm not sold on that Mako / Shep similarity

Yeah, I'm not really sold on that either.  I mean, it IS kind of similar, but physics DO tend to remain fairly similar no matter whether the body in motion is a vehicle or a man. 

[Judas Bock]

insomniak9 wrote...

I'm not sold on that Mako / Shep similarity

I agree, it might not be as definite evidence as the others, but considering that it comes just after the beam run, which is similar to the Ilos conduit run, I think it could have some relevance.

[Xavendithas]

Dwailing wrote...

You know, I was thinking about what that sound could be, and I had a thought (Actually, this might have been the FIRST thought I had when I heard it.). It sounds kind of like a defibrillator. Now, we've not seen ANYTHING to suggest that Shepard's armor or implants contain one of these, so what I was thinking was maybe it's the ground forces in the real world trying to revive him.

That actually makes a lot of sense given how things from that point on are when the memories from past events/places seem to start influencing everything. Combine that with the way the electrical currents further down the hall way sound like gunfire and you could really be on to something.

[Turbo_J]

Judas Bock wrote...

Also, now that we're talking similarities to past events/objects I'll bring this up again:

Judas Bock wrote...

Hi everyone.

I'll just repost what I previously most clearly posted in another thread:

One
of the points in IT is how a lot of what happens on the Citadel can be
seen as being based on Shepard's memories (Shadowbroker ship, Saren/TIM
suicide), and in the EC I noticed a new memory-based snippet.

The
new scene where you actually see Shepard arrive on the Citadel, he
teleports out of a device and flies in an arc onto the ground, and this
arrival to me seemed very similar to how the Mako arrives on the Citadel
in ME1.

The mood and even the cutting between angles is similar.

Here are youtube links if anyone's interested in comparing for themselves:

ME1: www.youtube.com/watch (the relevant stuff ends when the Mako has stopped moving, at about 1:33)

ME3: www.youtube.com/watch (the relevant stuff ends when Shepard has stopped moving, at about 3:30)

While not exactly the same, I'd say the similarities are undeniable.

This
to me was an obvious new clue to the IT crowd, because the ME team must
certainly know of that the IT-ers have talked about these
similiarities, and adding a new great similarity can't just be a
coincidence, it must have been done on purpose.

(original thread here: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12814321)

Any comments on this now that the IT thread seems more willing to discuss IT evidence again?

Not just that, but the mako almost hitting Shep is similar to the way it landed on the Citadel in ME1

[ThisOneIsPunny]

insomniak9 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Judas Bock wrote...

This has probably been said already, but when you're firing the (thanix?) cannons on the destroyer in front of the beam, don't they say something about a reaper (indoctrination) signal coming from the beam structure being the reason for the missiles not hitting? This along with this:

Turbo_J wrote...

*snip*

certainly fits with there being an active indoctrination signal there which could explain the hallucinations starting even before the Harby blast.

Hey, correct me if I'm wrong but I only saw the beam in the Destroy ending epilogue(High EMS). Thoughts on that?

Which beam?

The conduit, the one you use to get to the citadel. It apparently not only stays on, but stays on well into the epilogue when they show a rebuilt London HQ connecting to a rebuilt Citadel.
Edit: So it doesn't stay on after, but it does seem like they found a way to reactivate it? I don't know.

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 29 juin 2012 - 04:13 .

[Judas Bock]

Dwailing wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

I'm not sold on that Mako / Shep similarity

Yeah, I'm not really sold on that either.  I mean, it IS kind of similar, but physics DO tend to remain fairly similar no matter whether the body in motion is a vehicle or a man. 

I know what you're saying, but it's not just the physics. It has more or less the same camera angles and editing as well. First a sort of low angle when Shep/Mako comes out of the beam, then cut to an angle just in front of where Shep/Mako hits the ground just before they enter the frame, etc.

[insomniak9]

Turbo_J wrote...

Not just that, but the mako almost hitting Shep is similar to the way it landed on the Citadel in ME1

That makes more sense.

Modifié par insomniak9, 29 juin 2012 - 04:09 .