55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MaximizedAction]

Xavendithas wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Yes, it makes total sense. Another example for something like that is something that DJBare noticed: those discharges in the console room resemble gunshot sounds and husks screams; that would too make sense if there's some battle going on while Shepard's unconcious in London.

O.o This bit makes even more sense, if the noises are gunshots and husk screams. 

Look at the picture. That is blatantly Dreadnought guns pointed at husks! 



The guns are the "hand-rails" up the incline. The husks are the 'shadows' on the far wall, which then come into view as part of the Citadel structure. 

WOW it took me a minute to see husks but this looks awesome. Dont know if its intended or not but nice find. 

Now stand in that hallway and just listen to the sounds of the electricity arcing. If that doesn't sound like a fierce gun battle and dying husks...then I dunno.

It's not so strong in the hallway, it sounds WAY MORE like assault rifles in the console room. Go there!

BTW, you made me realise something:
I think I now know why Bioware moved the line, that triggers the dialog cutscene in the console room more forward. That way you get to get a better impression of the surrounding before cutting to the dialog. And that way I could also listen to the sparks a bit better.

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Yes, it makes total sense. Another example for something like that is something that DJBare noticed: those discharges in the console room resemble gunshot sounds and husks screams; that would too make sense if there's some battle going on while Shepard's unconcious in London.

O.o This bit makes even more sense, if the noises are gunshots and husk screams. 

Look at the picture. That is blatantly Dreadnought guns pointed at husks! 



The guns are the "hand-rails" up the incline. The husks are the 'shadows' on the far wall, which then come into view as part of the Citadel structure. 

WOW it took me a minute to see husks but this looks awesome. Dont know if its intended or not but nice find. 

Now stand in that hallway and just listen to the sounds of the electricity arcing. If that doesn't sound like a fierce gun battle and dying husks...then I dunno.

It's not so strong in the hallway, it sounds WAY MORE like assault rifles in the console room. Go there!

BTW, you made me realise something:
I think I now know why Bioware moved the line, that triggers the dialog cutscene in the console room more forward. That way you get to get a better impression of the surrounding before cutting to the dialog. And that way I could also listen to the sparks a bit better.

A recording put onto Youtube would be apprieciated, just so we can all study it!

[Turbo_J]

XanderLav wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Yes, it makes total sense. Another example for something like that is something that DJBare noticed: those discharges in the console room resemble gunshot sounds and husks screams; that would too make sense if there's some battle going on while Shepard's unconcious in London.

O.o This bit makes even more sense, if the noises are gunshots and husk screams. 

Look at the picture. That is blatantly Dreadnought guns pointed at husks! 



The guns are the "hand-rails" up the incline. The husks are the 'shadows' on the far wall, which then come into view as part of the Citadel structure. 

WOW it took me a minute to see husks but this looks awesome. Dont know if its intended or not but nice find. 

I see the beam in the center and the shadows are the layered inner structures that circle the beam. I don't have a pic handy but maybe I'll make a transparent overlay.

[Eryri]

MaximizedAction wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

"We are not changing the ending."

For the most part they didn't. But they added an option and altered several aspects of the endings.

I'm not saying there will be a new ending. Did the ending of ME 2 change when Arrival was released?

That's actually a really good point, under any point-of-view. 

That point itself should be a debate starter on what an ending is actually when there are DLCs. An ending to ME3, sure, that's it.

But the better fitting quote for the sake of the argument would be "No further ending DLC is planned".

By the same token, Throne of Bhaal didn't change the ending of Baldur's gate 2, but it certainly added to the story. Do you think we might be in for a good old fashioned expansion pack? Possibly disc based for the folks with poor internet connections? Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too much, but that would be great!

It would even explain all the quotes suggesting that ME3 is the end of Shepard's story. An expansion pack would still be technically part of ME3, rathen than a true sequel.

[Xavendithas]

Andromidius wrote...

A recording put onto Youtube would be apprieciated, just so we can all study it!

There is one, somewhere. This was discusses waaaaay back in the original thread. I wish Arian or Byne or someone was lurking so they could point it out.

Modifié par Xavendithas, 29 juin 2012 - 07:44 .

[insomniak9]

This is a pre-EC video I think, but it still happens.



04:30 ish. The groans definitely get more prominent as you 'see' the husks appear in view.

[insomniak9]

Turbo_J wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Yes, it makes total sense. Another example for something like that is something that DJBare noticed: those discharges in the console room resemble gunshot sounds and husks screams; that would too make sense if there's some battle going on while Shepard's unconcious in London.

O.o This bit makes even more sense, if the noises are gunshots and husk screams. 

Look at the picture. That is blatantly Dreadnought guns pointed at husks! 



The guns are the "hand-rails" up the incline. The husks are the 'shadows' on the far wall, which then come into view as part of the Citadel structure. 

WOW it took me a minute to see husks but this looks awesome. Dont know if its intended or not but nice find. 

I see the beam in the center and the shadows are the layered inner structures that circle the beam. I don't have a pic handy but maybe I'll make a transparent overlay.

Nice spot!  I didn't even think of that before. 

[SubAstris]

Lokanaiya wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ya but come on Subart. Bioware has said a lot of things but the EC was only an expassion of the endings not add a new end and fix a lot of the endgame when you are about to charge to the Conduit.

I'm referring to all potential future DLC. EC was the one chance to say," guys, it was IT", and they blew it

I'll say it again.

BioWare did exactly what they said they were going to do with the EC. They said that if you believed in IT, the EC would not change your opinion and if you believed in the literal interpretation of the ending, it would not change your opinion.

It begs the question why they would do that if IT was their intention. Did they not enough people believe it? If that's the reason, it not only shows bad storytelling but also being unprincipled

I disagree. BioWare is going about it in the only way I think it could feasibly be done. You leave enough evidence in place to keep the people that pick up on the discrepancies looking and questioning, while leaving enough closure to trick the people that haven't yet picked up on the fact that something is horribly amiss in the final 10 minutes of the game.

You are kinda of implying I have questioned enough. Trust me, I have.

And yet if you don't show that something is horribly amiss, make it clear so that not just a very small percentage of your audience who trail through dozens of sound files hidden in the depths of the game and the like "get it", you have really failed.

"SO BE IT. "

I think that alone makes it pretty clear that something's wrong. And we STILL have no idea how Synthesis turns everything into cyborgs, why Harbinger lets the Normandy escape, etc.  And this whole theory got started because a bunch of people felt that something was wrong with the original ending and got together to figure out why. Don't tell me that only people who have gone through game files think that something's wrong with the ending.

1) Not really. "So be it" doesn't really tell us anything we don't know already. The Catalyst is merely expressing his anger at Shepard not choosing one of the three options.

2) We don't get the "ins and outs" of Synthesis in the same way that we don't know how Shepard survives in the beginning of ME2. Both are eventually space magic and explained unsatisfactorily. Does that mean both aren't real?

3) Common gameplay mechanic, it's needed for the plot to progress Harbinger is focussing on Shepard anyway at that point.

[MaximizedAction]

insomniak9 wrote...

I thought it looked weird on my EC playthru, couldn't decide if they were Husks or Banshees, but someone mentioned the sparks sounding like gunshots and shreiks, and I grabbed this from a vid on YT.
It makes more sense when you play or watch a vid, but it leaves you running around in the Control Panel room looking for them (pro-tip: they're shadows on the ceiling)

If that doesn't sound like dream / hallucination state, then I'll eat all of our hats. 

Also, I remember someone mentioning how after Harbinger lasershot, you can't look down anymore. Not only did it really bug me not being able to do that , it also seems to resemble what some people experience in dreams: they can't look down.

Interestingly, this also allows you to walk over those big a** holes in the casm. If you could look down you would notice that you're walking on air. ^^

[TJBartlemus]

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

You are kinda of implying I have questioned enough. Trust me, I have.

And yet if you don't show that something is horribly amiss, make it clear so that not just a very small percentage of your audience who trail through dozens of sound files hidden in the depths of the game and the like "get it", you have really failed.

I speak only for myself, obviously.

I haven't spent any time looking through sound files, or at assets, etc. Yet the moment I turned off my XBox after finishing the game for the first time, my initial impression was that it was all in Shepards head. I think a lot of people here came to the same conclusion, rather quickly.

I don't recall ever having said that the people that are seeing the ending of the game as a literal thing don't 'get' it. It's a matter of perspective, influenced by any number of outside things.

To quote Legion, "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three."

Both is right, neither is wrong. Perspective is the difference.

And given that the outcome of IT would be to trick the players into choosing an outcome to the conflict that benefits the Reapers in some fashion, they are succeeding.

Whole point of WNT:EC. The Reapers are trying to influence Shepard by using indoctrination to make a choice that would be favorable to them.

[dreamgazer]

Xavendithas wrote...

I speak only for myself, obviously.

I haven't spent any time looking through sound files, or at assets, etc. Yet the moment I turned off my XBox after finishing the game for the first time, my initial impression was that it was all in Shepards head. I think a lot of people here came to the same conclusion, rather quickly.

I don't recall ever having said that the people that are seeing the ending of the game as a literal thing don't 'get' it. It's a matter of perspective, influenced by any number of outside things.

To quote Legion, "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three."

Both is right, neither is wrong. Perspective is the difference.

And given that the outcome of IT would be to trick the players into choosing an outcome to the conflict that benefits the Reapers in some fashion, they are succeeding.

Heavily agreed.  That was my perspective, almost word for word. 

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

You are kinda of implying I have questioned enough. Trust me, I have.

And yet if you don't show that something is horribly amiss, make it clear so that not just a very small percentage of your audience who trail through dozens of sound files hidden in the depths of the game and the like "get it", you have really failed.

I speak only for myself, obviously.

I haven't spent any time looking through sound files, or at assets, etc. Yet the moment I turned off my XBox after finishing the game for the first time, my initial impression was that it was all in Shepards head. I think a lot of people here came to the same conclusion, rather quickly.

I don't recall ever having said that the people that are seeing the ending of the game as a literal thing don't 'get' it. It's a matter of perspective, influenced by any number of outside things.

To quote Legion, "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three."

Both is right, neither is wrong. Perspective is the difference.

And given that the outcome of IT would be to trick the players into choosing an outcome to the conflict that benefits the Reapers in some fashion, they are succeeding.

Interesting. Although of course you would be in the minority coming to that conclusion, at least initially.

Both perspectives could be right. Shepard dreaming the whole time since the Eden Prime in ME1 is also a valid perspective. The question is not really that but instead what was BW's actual intention for the ending

There is nothing that points toward a mental battle in me1 though. In me3 there are 1000 word documents and hour long videos full of support.

Please stop it with your ridiculous statements sub, you can do better than that.

[Andromidius]

insomniak9 wrote...

This is a pre-EC video I think, but it still happens.



04:30 ish. The groans definitely get more prominent as you 'see' the husks appear in view.

I hear it, barely.  Its quite well hidden behind the music.

Interesting...

And yeah, those shadows look like figures in the distance.  That can't be a coincidence can it, considering how the shapes look nothing like that when you get closer?

[paxxton]

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 07:46 .

[Rifneno]

Guys. If you didn't feed it, it might have left. Now I think the frickin' thing is too fat to fit through the doorway.

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

lol that smilie.

[insomniak9]

Another point that the video will help to explain... at 00:01 in the video, you can clearly see Shepard not holding the gun.

Play the level again, and try clicking the mouse. You'll be surprised.

[Xavendithas]

Megumi, Paxxton, do either of you know where to track down the video that was made from the audio of the electricity in the control panel room? The one about the sounds being similar to gunfire?

[SubAstris]

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...
Developers repeat and reuse old bits all the time, it is nothing new. I think you have highlighted one of the biggest flaws in some ITers' thinking; many look over the practicalities of game development.

In fact the evidence you bring up goes against IT because not every Shepard has seen the engines before. Unless he is dreaming things he has never seen before

Considering Bioware stated they spent extra time and effort on the endings to make it 'exactly as they intended it to be', the whole 'reusing assets' argument feels weak as it goes along the 'Bioware is lazy' route.  Not to mention they 'reuse assets' which are inappropriate for the situation.

If anyone is ignoring evidence...

It's not lazy, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Developers make shortcuts all the time. I doubt many were clambering for the Shadow Broker engines to be removed anyway just because they had been used before. You're implying that they didn't intend to use in the first place, which I don't think is true, for the reasons I have mentioned. It is not strange, unusual

[jgibson14352]

Eryri wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

"We are not changing the ending."

For the most part they didn't. But they added an option and altered several aspects of the endings.

I'm not saying there will be a new ending. Did the ending of ME 2 change when Arrival was released?

That's actually a really good point, under any point-of-view. 

That point itself should be a debate starter on what an ending is actually when there are DLCs. An ending to ME3, sure, that's it.

But the better fitting quote for the sake of the argument would be "No further ending DLC is planned".

By the same token, Throne of Bhaal didn't change the ending of Baldur's gate 2, but it certainly added to the story. Do you think we might be in for a good old fashioned expansion pack? Possibly disc based for the folks with poor internet connections? Maybe I'm getting my hopes up too much, but that would be great!

It would even explain all the quotes suggesting that ME3 is the end of Shepard's story. An expansion pack would still be technically part of ME3, rathen than a true sequel.

well heres your quote, but if you check the thread back near the 1350s youll see everybody here told me not to worry about it, mostly based on this evidence

Modifié par jgibson14352, 29 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[Andromidius]

SubAstris wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...
Developers repeat and reuse old bits all the time, it is nothing new. I think you have highlighted one of the biggest flaws in some ITers' thinking; many look over the practicalities of game development.

In fact the evidence you bring up goes against IT because not every Shepard has seen the engines before. Unless he is dreaming things he has never seen before

Considering Bioware stated they spent extra time and effort on the endings to make it 'exactly as they intended it to be', the whole 'reusing assets' argument feels weak as it goes along the 'Bioware is lazy' route.  Not to mention they 'reuse assets' which are inappropriate for the situation.

If anyone is ignoring evidence...

It's not lazy, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Developers make shortcuts all the time. I doubt many were clambering for the Shadow Broker engines to be removed anyway just because they had been used before. You're implying that they didn't intend to use in the first place, which I don't think is true, for the reasons I have mentioned. It is not strange, unusual

But it IS broken, from a literal standpoint!

Oh I give up...  Someone else take over.

[insomniak9]

Another picture to illustrate another of my points:

The Destroy console has great big curvy circular pipes in it's construction, tell me that doesn't look like a Reaper from this angle. Control is completely lacking these. Why not make it symmetrical?

I'll tell you why; because when you shoot Destroy, you're actually shooting Harbinger. 

Modifié par insomniak9, 29 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[Xavendithas]

jgibson14352 wrote...

well heres your quote, but if you check the thread back near the 1350s youll see everybody here told me not to worry about it

I don't think a person that uses Kai-Leng as their avatar should be trusted.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

You are kinda of implying I have questioned enough. Trust me, I have.

And yet if you don't show that something is horribly amiss, make it clear so that not just a very small percentage of your audience who trail through dozens of sound files hidden in the depths of the game and the like "get it", you have really failed.

I speak only for myself, obviously.

I haven't spent any time looking through sound files, or at assets, etc. Yet the moment I turned off my XBox after finishing the game for the first time, my initial impression was that it was all in Shepards head. I think a lot of people here came to the same conclusion, rather quickly.

I don't recall ever having said that the people that are seeing the ending of the game as a literal thing don't 'get' it. It's a matter of perspective, influenced by any number of outside things.

To quote Legion, "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three."

Both is right, neither is wrong. Perspective is the difference.

And given that the outcome of IT would be to trick the players into choosing an outcome to the conflict that benefits the Reapers in some fashion, they are succeeding.

Interesting. Although of course you would be in the minority coming to that conclusion, at least initially.

Both perspectives could be right. Shepard dreaming the whole time since the Eden Prime in ME1 is also a valid perspective. The question is not really that but instead what was BW's actual intention for the ending

There is nothing that points toward a mental battle in me1 though. In me3 there are 1000 word documents and hour long videos full of support.

Please stop it with your ridiculous statements sub, you can do better than that.

You're assuming that quantity equals quality. There have been hundreds of books written and hundreds of videos made on creationism or 9/11, don't make it true.

Bounty, you disappoint.

[paxxton]

Xavendithas wrote...

Megumi, Paxxton, do either of you know where to track down the video that was made from the audio of the electricity in the control panel room? The one about the sounds being similar to gunfire?

Maybe you can find it here:
http://www.youtube.c...fvkf-FI2pzy9DDg