Ce sujet est fermé
Xavendithas wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
Okay, show me how a simple comparison of the cables shows Shepard is still on the Citadel.
I'll wait for the answer right here.
Cables, broken stones, mist everywhere in a dark, semi-cavernous space ... s/he's still on the planet with the rachni!:wizard:
Rifneno wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
He might have. I have done one playthrough without playing LotSB but I honestly can't remember if Shepard knows or not. All I know is that if you don't play it, you don't do the mission with her
No, Shepard doesn't know. I was screwing with the flags one time trying to set Liara's romance and accidentally wiped out my Shepard's memory of LoTSB. When he went into Liara's cabin the first time it was basically "what's all this?" "oh, I'm the Shadow Broker now." "... 'kay?"
Xavendithas wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Okay, show me how a simple comparison of the cables shows Shepard is still on the Citadel.
I'll wait for the answer right here.
Modifié par Peytl, 29 juin 2012 - 08:21 .
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
Give me a few examples of everything they've done to confirm that the endings are literal. Go on, I'll wait right here.
dreamgazer wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
Okay, show me how a simple comparison of the cables shows Shepard is still on the Citadel.
I'll wait for the answer right here.
Cables, broken stones, mist everywhere in a dark, semi-cavernous space ... s/he's still on the planet with the rachni!
Aaaaand it'd explain the piece of Reaper tech obscured in the background.
(cough, cough) Bazinga.
SubAstris wrote...
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
dreamgazer wrote...
insomniak9 wrote...
Aww man you're all killing me.
I think they're not discussing the visual symmetry to the destroy area because it's already been discussed a bit, along with the fiery explosion looking a little like a Reaper.
I'm not biting on that bit of reaching.
The explosion doesn't, but I'm bored of people debating IT without actually giving examples, rather pages of nested quotes being rather diplomatic "ooh we'll agree to disagree..."
SubAstris wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
Give me a few examples of everything they've done to confirm that the endings are literal. Go on, I'll wait right here.
Through their actions and comments which must assume a face-value interpretation. Also the fact that EC has nothing to do with IT with no discernable reason for that being the case if IT was their intention
Modifié par Dwailing, 29 juin 2012 - 08:22 .
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
But I also remember you saying hotl to not be a accurate representation of the community. Its obvious bioware looks at all the areas for opinions on IT.
That's not true at all. First of all it's unfair to say because the biggest thing they could do to confirm is to say that IT isn't true, but there are other things as well. They made the scene where the normandy evacuates your squadmates ridiculous. They don't show anything about the breath scene. They kept the line from coates that everyone has been wiped out, yet somehow someone gives Hackett the intel that Shepard made it on to the citadel but then Hackett a few seconds later says "someone made it on". They kept the weird scene with Anderson and TIM and didn't do anything to show how they got on to the Citadel. There's a lot that's still very unexplained in the endings.SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
Control has 2 visions as well. Synthesis has 1.MegumiAzusa wrote...
Btw there is only one vision for blue and green, but two for red.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Sorry, I don't follow.Dwailing wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
I've been thinking about something, and I just had a realization. There's clear evidence that Starbinger (I'm going to revive that.) is in Shepard's mind in some capacity. How do I know this? Because every time Shepard asks Starbinger what's going to happen if he chooses a certain ending, he see a vision of what the outcome will be. This is in addition to the visions of Anderson and TIM. Here's a video:
Not sure if this is premature, but seriously, any thoughts?
It's clear that SOMETHING is placing images in Shepard's mind. How else could he SEE what was going to happen in each choice? And it seems as if the only thing that could do that would be Starbinger. And since Starbinger is probably Harbinger, that just suggests to me that the Reapers are in Shepard's mind.
The interesting thing is also how the files are called: End002_Vis_RedVap, End002_Vis_RedBad, End002_Vis_BlueBad, End002_Vis_GreenGood.
Peytl wrote...
If you check the breathing scene, the cables are way too long to be re-bars.
Peytl wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Okay, show me how a simple comparison of the cables shows Shepard is still on the Citadel.
I'll wait for the answer right here.
https://lh6.googleus...izr8GqlaLh2bYPU
Dwailing wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
I don't think we can use that as evidence. I think its more of the explanation that the starbrat gives you rather than a mental implant.Dwailing wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Sorry, I don't follow.Dwailing wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
I've been thinking about something, and I just had a realization. There's clear evidence that Starbinger (I'm going to revive that.) is in Shepard's mind in some capacity. How do I know this? Because every time Shepard asks Starbinger what's going to happen if he chooses a certain ending, he see a vision of what the outcome will be. This is in addition to the visions of Anderson and TIM. Here's a video:
Not sure if this is premature, but seriously, any thoughts?
It's clear that SOMETHING is placing images in Shepard's mind. How else could he SEE what was going to happen in each choice? And it seems as if the only thing that could do that would be Starbinger. And since Starbinger is probably Harbinger, that just suggests to me that the Reapers are in Shepard's mind.
Still, they seem like awefully specific visions to just be Shepard's imagination at work based on what Starbinger told him. I mean, in Destroy, for instance, why wouldn't he just see the Reapers, I don't know, exploding? Why does he see them keeling over EXACTLY like they do if he chooses Destroy?
Or another example, in the vision about Control, why would he see the Citadel arms closing back up if he's just basing his visions on what Starbinger tells him? Starbinger said nothing about the Citadel, just the Reapers.
Modifié par Dwailing, 29 juin 2012 - 08:24 .
I hope for them to say something at Comic Con.Big Bad wrote...
i can only speak for myself, but as an IT supporter, I would much rather have BW just come out and say that they never intended IT, rather then leaving ambiguous so that we have to speculate indefinitely.
SubAstris wrote...
Through their actions and comments which must assume a face-value interpretation. Also the fact that EC has nothing to do with IT with no discernable reason for that being the case if IT was their intention
Modifié par MaximizedAction, 29 juin 2012 - 08:27 .
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
But I also remember you saying hotl to not be a accurate representation of the community. Its obvious bioware looks at all the areas for opinions on IT.
Well done, at least you haven't fallen for his trap
Although, don't you think it is not very principled not to follow your convictions through just to please some fans by abandoning your original intention with the ending (assuming IT) in the EC?
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
llbountyhunter wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.
If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.
Why not just confirm the literal endings?
But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.
They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)
Give me a few examples of everything they've done to confirm that the endings are literal. Go on, I'll wait right here.
Through their actions and comments which must assume a face-value interpretation. Also the fact that EC has nothing to do with IT with no discernable reason for that being the case if IT was their intention
I wanted specifics, not blanket statements like, "Through their actions and comments." Please.
And when I say "please", I'm attempting to be polite, not making a sarcastic comment about your post.
those cables on the citadel are too thick. on top of that there's nothing even close to the rubble in the breath scene on the citadel. it would really make me lose respect for bioware if shepard was on the citadel because it's so impossible that shepard would survive that explosion much less the crucible blast. and why wouldn't he have been found by the crews rebuilding the citadel?Peytl wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
Peytl wrote...
Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.
Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?
Okay, show me how a simple comparison of the cables shows Shepard is still on the Citadel.
I'll wait for the answer right here.
https://lh6.googleus...izr8GqlaLh2bYPU
If you check the breathing scene, the cables are way too long to be re-bars.
Big Bad wrote...
i can only speak for myself, but as an IT supporter, I would much rather have BW just come out and say that they never intended IT, rather then leaving ambiguous so that we have to speculate indefinitely.
SubAstris wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
But IT ISN'T BROKEN! It's admissible, negligible
i.e. You can't explain the plotholes, thus you ignore them.
Seriously, if you can't give an explaination for things then you're not doing a good job proving your points. If you can't explain them without either indoctrination or hallucination, then you can't explain them with literalist viewpoints.
And thus the pointholes are breaks in the game.
End of.
No, I have made my position perfectly clear as to why it is not strange for the Shadow Broker's engines to be present there without resorting to IT and its derivatives. In fact, as I have said again and again, it doesn't make sense in IT since Shepards who haven't done LotSB are imagining something they have never seen!
I should point out that technically, those are NOT the same models as the ones on the Shadow Broker Ship. They made a whole new asset. However, they seem designed to REMIND the player of the panels on the Shadow Broker Ship. They didn't just reuse an asset, they designed a whole new one. And they could have designed that asset ANY WAY THEY WANTED TO. And yet, they decided to go with a model that would remind people of the panels on the Shadow Broker Ship. Why?
Fair enough. They look pretty similar, I was merely pointing out a connection others ITers have made. Nor am I completely sure that they had the Shadow Broker's ship in mind (remember this is from the same people who didn't think people would link the destruction of the mass relay in Arrival with that in the ending of ME3). And my last point still stands
I'm curious, even if Shepard didn't complete LotSB, does he still know from the beginning that Liara is the Shadow Broker? If so, I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to assume that he visited her at some point.
He might have. I have done one playthrough without playing LotSB but I honestly can't remember if Shepard knows or not. All I know is that if you don't play it, you don't do the mission with her
Modifié par Turbo_J, 29 juin 2012 - 08:28 .
Big Bad wrote...
i can only speak for myself, but as an IT supporter, I would much rather have BW just come out and say that they never intended IT, rather then leaving ambiguous so that we have to speculate indefinitely.
Andromidius wrote...
Peytl wrote...
If you check the breathing scene, the cables are way too long to be re-bars.
And you ignore the obvious - THERE'S NO CONCRETE ON THE CITADEL.
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