55528 réponses à ce sujet

[liggy002]

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086
I'm genuinely trying to work out if there's a whole bunch of ways this can make sense, because I keep seeing posts in my thread that just seem to use completely retarded logic and frankly I just don't quite get how someone can take 1+2 and make "Bioware are **** writers".

Maybe I should just stay off forums for my own sanity...

You simply can't reason with the unreasonable.  For some odd reason that is beyond my understanding, some people are dead set against Indoctrination while it is a major theme of all three Mass Effect games.

Modifié par liggy002, 21 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[UrgedDuke]

Holy S*** this was a hard post to find. it was way back in the 1300s of the old IT forum. Anyway this is the Crucible conspiracy I was talking about TSA_383

How about this:

It was clear during the Arrival that the Reapers wanted Shepard alive to possibly manipulate him. This can be seen when kenson and her indoctrinated crew spare Shepard and try to sedate him until the Reapers arrive. My proposal is that Shepard was meant to break of of the station to prove to himself that he was alright. Shepard was also meant to travel all over the galaxy to unite the races against the Reapers. Shepard brings all of the races into a one location (Earth) to fight the Reapers. By doing this Shepard is fulfilling the Reapers plans because he has brought all the threats of the Reapers to a location where they can be destroyed in a single battle. I also think that the Crucible is likely a giant Reaper Trojan Horse and is part of the trap. If you think about it, it is unwise to think that the Reapers didn't know about the Crucible. The origins of the Crucible have been long lost, it is very possible that the Reapers started it. Even if the Reapers didn't start the Crucible Idea, they could of easily sabotaged it. Think of all the indoctrinated hands that have touched those plans like TIM the Reapers must have definitely tampered with it. All of this above shows that all of the events of ME3 could have be part of the Reapers' plans, and Shepard fulfilled them without even knowing it.

Anyway just wanted to throw that idea out there. I don't necessarily believe this theory, it is just a possibility I thought of. I still fully support the IT.

[Dwailing]

liggy002 wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086
I'm genuinely trying to work out if there's a whole bunch of ways this can make sense, because I keep seeing posts in my thread that just seem to use completely retarded logic and frankly I just don't quite get how someone can take 1+2 and make "Bioware are **** writers".

Maybe I should just stay off forums for my own sanity...

You simply can't reason with the unreasonable.  For some odd reason that is beyond my understanding, some people are dead set against Indoctrination while it is a major theme of all three Mass Effect games.

I think this just confirms a hypothesis I came up with a while back.  People are stupid.  OK, I'll admit, IT can seem a teeny bit far fetched at times, but since NO ONE else has been able to come up with ANYTHING that explains the endings beyond, "Bioware has **** writers," I'm more than willing to put up with the rare issues since the entire package is so great. (Kind of like with games, honestly.)

Edit: I know there have been other ideas, but none of them have the evidence that IT has to back it up.  The Intoxication Theory is a joke, and the Nanide Theory and the Virtual Reality Theory are really both just variations on IT.

Double Edit: I should point out that I don't think ALL the people who oppose IT are stupid (Look at GBGriffin, for instance), just the great majority of them who seem to completely LOATHE us for no reason.

Modifié par Dwailing, 21 mai 2012 - 12:59 .

[UrgentArchengel]

@Dwailing. Yup, that's my philosophy on life. Everybody is stupid. Because everyone makes mistakes, gets worked up, and this Anti-IT propaganda is proof. They can do nothing else but troll because they themselves are in denial. They just can't accept IT as a possibility. I can't wait to see if IT is true and just to see there reactions. It's going to be funny.

[Dwailing]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

@Dwailing. Yup, that's my philosophy on life. Everybody is stupid. Because everyone makes mistakes, gets worked up, and this Anti-IT propaganda is proof. They can do nothing else but troll because they themselves are in denial. They just can't accept IT as a possibility. I can't wait to see if IT is true and just to see there reactions. It's going to be funny.

True, ALL of us have our moments.  Stupidity is just a fact of life.  And like you, I can't wait to see what happens when the EC comes out.  At this point, even if BW didn't have it planned from the beginning (Which I do NOT believe.  They're one of only a very small number of developers who might be able to pull this off.), they have a ready made solution for the endings that they'll probably use anyway.  Unless, of course, they have something EVEN BETTER currently in development.  That would be awesome, too.

[Destructorlio]

squee365 wrote...

So what was this all about "Dream foliage" being labeled in the game files?
Was that a hoax too?

No, those shrubs are definitely labelled dream foliage in the game architecture, and you see them:

A. Near the kid at the start of the game.
B. In the dream sequences.
C. On the planet at the end where the Normandy crashes.
D. As random plant assets elsewhere through the game.

All of this kind of points towards IT, though not definitively.

Uhm, here's a bit of a brain teaser for IT/Literalism. If:

1. We believe Bioware when they say they are not changing the ending, only adding to it. and
2. We know for a fact (EDIT: We do not know this for a fact) that Martin Sheen and the voice actors for Shepard have come back for recording...

...what does this imply for IT? From a literal viewpoint, the Illusive Man is dead and so is Shepard in 5/6 endings. They are not going to retcon the ending, so... isn't IT the only alternative? That TIM is not dead and neither is Shepard?

Seriously, if Shepard 'wakes up' from IT, then he can confront the real Illusive Man (they can even have that proposed boss fight- if TIM is indoctrinated, then he can transform the way Saren did at the end of ME1). But if IT is not true, Shepard is dead... the Illusive Man is dead... why would they need them back for voice acting?

If a Literalist can explain this, that'd be great, since IT already explains this neatly.

Modifié par Destructorlio, 21 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[Dwailing]

Destructorlio wrote...

squee365 wrote...

So what was this all about "Dream foliage" being labeled in the game files?
Was that a hoax too?

No, those shrubs are definitely labelled dream foliage in the game architecture, and you see them:

A. Near the kid at the start of the game.
B. In the dream sequences.
C. On the planet at the end where the Normandy crashes.
D. As random plant assets elsewhere through the game.

All of this kind of points towards IT, though not definitively.

Uhm, here's a bit of a brain teaser for IT/Literalism. If:

1. We believe Bioware when they say they are not changing the ending, only adding to it. and
2. We know for a fact that Martin Sheen and the voice actors for Shepard have come back for recording...

...what does this imply for IT? From a literal viewpoint, the Illusive Man is dead and so is Shepard in 5/6 endings. They are not going to retcon the ending, so... isn't IT the only alternative? That TIM is not dead and neither is Shepard?

Seriously, if Shepard 'wakes up' from IT, then he can confront the real Illusive Man (they can even have that proposed boss fight- if TIM is indoctrinated, then he can transform the way Saren did at the end of ME1). But if IT is not true, Shepard is dead... the Illusive Man is dead... why would they need them back for voice acting?

If a Literalist can explain this, that'd be great, since IT already explains this neatly.

Hey, that's a good point.  Why would Martin Sheen need to come back if TIM is dead?  I don't remember him doing voice work for anyone else.

[Uncle Jo]

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086
I'm genuinely trying to work out if there's a whole bunch of ways this can make sense, because I keep seeing posts in my thread that just seem to use completely retarded logic and frankly I just don't quite get how someone can take 1+2 and make "Bioware are **** writers".

Maybe I should just stay off forums for my own sanity...

I've looked at your link, but I sincerely don't know why you made it in a separate thread. It's like letting the Alpha Relay open.. You can be sure that you'll get a massive troll invasion.
Most of the anti-IT don't even have a clue about the most basic hints and explanations of the theory (I can't possibly imagine that someone with common sense, a bit informed about the mass effect universe and some knowledge about Indoctrination, could wholeheartly reject the IT), let alone about that you have posted.
When I heard for the first time that most of the people dismissed the IT was because they didn't like to be fooled, I laughed hard. I mean what's the problem with it ? In real life everyone of us has been fooled at least once... We learn out of our mistakes. If IT turns out officially to be true, I personally see it as milestone in the relation between game and player, a new kind of interactivity which was never reached till today. To witness something like this is a privilege...

[RaidShock]

Dwailing wrote...
Hey, that's a good point.  Why would Martin Sheen need to come back if TIM is dead?  I don't remember him doing voice work for anyone else.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Sheen is back? I haven't seen that.

[TSA_383]

Destructorlio wrote...

squee365 wrote...

So what was this all about "Dream foliage" being labeled in the game files?
Was that a hoax too?

No, those shrubs are definitely labelled dream foliage in the game architecture, and you see them:

A. Near the kid at the start of the game.
B. In the dream sequences.
C. On the planet at the end where the Normandy crashes.
D. As random plant assets elsewhere through the game.

All of this kind of points towards IT, though not definitively.

Uhm, here's a bit of a brain teaser for IT/Literalism. If:

1. We believe Bioware when they say they are not changing the ending, only adding to it. and
2. We know for a fact that Martin Sheen and the voice actors for Shepard have come back for recording...

...what does this imply for IT? From a literal viewpoint, the Illusive Man is dead and so is Shepard in 5/6 endings. They are not going to retcon the ending, so... isn't IT the only alternative? That TIM is not dead and neither is Shepard?

Seriously, if Shepard 'wakes up' from IT, then he can confront the real Illusive Man (they can even have that proposed boss fight- if TIM is indoctrinated, then he can transform the way Saren did at the end of ME1). But if IT is not true, Shepard is dead... the Illusive Man is dead... why would they need them back for voice acting?

If a Literalist can explain this, that'd be great, since IT already explains this neatly.

I missed this??? Sheen's coming back?

Uncle Jo wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086
I'm
genuinely trying to work out if there's a whole bunch of ways this can
make sense, because I keep seeing posts in my thread that just seem to
use completely retarded logic and frankly I just don't quite get how
someone can take 1+2 and make "Bioware are **** writers".

Maybe I should just stay off forums for my own sanity...

I've
looked at your link, but I sincerely don't know why you made it in a
separate thread. It's like letting the Alpha Relay open.. You can be
sure that you'll get a massive troll invasion.
Most of the anti-IT
don't even have a clue about the most basic hints and explanations of
the theory (I can't possibly imagine that someone with common sense, a
bit informed about the mass effect universe and some knowledge about
Indoctrination, could wholeheartly reject the IT), let alone about that
you have posted.
When I heard for the first time that most of the
people dismissed the IT was because they didn't like to be fooled, I
laughed hard. I mean what's the problem with it ? In real life everyone
of us has been fooled at least once... We learn out of our mistakes. If
IT turns out officially to be true, I personally see it as milestone in
the relation between game and player, a new kind of interactivity which
was never reached till today. To witness something like this is a
privilege...

True, but the main forum's got a much bigger audience, and I had such a "the ****?" moment when going through that stuff that I assumed it'd be difficult for people to just assume it was all rubbish.

Then one of the early comments was something along the lines of "the red herring must be referring to itself" and I died a little inside

[UrgentArchengel]

I really find it funny that those who say that Bioware is a bunch of liars would believe that EC is just a bunch of cutscenes for clarification purposes as "BIOWARE" says. There like starburst, a contradiction.

[UrgentArchengel]

RaidShock wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Hey, that's a good point.  Why would Martin Sheen need to come back if TIM is dead?  I don't remember him doing voice work for anyone else.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Sheen is back? I haven't seen that.

This, this is news to me.

[Destructorlio]

Dwailing wrote...

Hey, that's a good point.  Why would Martin Sheen need to come back if TIM is dead?  I don't remember him doing voice work for anyone else.

Actually, do we have confirmation that Sheen has returned for the EC? I can only find confirmation for EDI, Kaiden and Hackett. Sheen would be a clincher for IT, but again, what are the literalists imaging the extended cut will be? Scenes before the end which just explain things further (like what the frak Liara+Garrus were doing on the Normandy, and what the Normandy was doing feeling the system?)- I'm not sure that will solve the complaints people had about the ending. Only IT provides satisfaction.

Anyway, I think there are only two more ways to further the IT conversation:

1. I think this is unlikely, but there may be more clues hidden within the architecture of the game. We've already looked pretty closely though (thank you to the big damned heroes who did all the legwork on this) so I'm not optimistic that more proof will arise frmo the game itself.
2. Clues will emerge from the real world, things like VO actors dropping hints, or a leak getting out of the studio. I assume there will be some kind of trailer at EC which we will analyze frame-by-frame, but will be carefully designed not to confirm/deny IT. Then once the EC actually drops I hope Bioware will finally lift their radio silence and let us know that IT was planned from the start.

[Destructorlio]

RaidShock wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Hey, that's a good point.  Why would Martin Sheen need to come back if TIM is dead?  I don't remember him doing voice work for anyone else.

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Sheen is back? I haven't seen that.

Yes, many apols for that, I misunderstood an older article. Withdrawn! Withdrawn! (I have edited the orignial post to make this clearer) However if we could get confirmation on that, it would be awesome. Someone call Sheen's agent!

Modifié par Destructorlio, 21 mai 2012 - 01:34 .

[Karolus_V]

Uncle Jo wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086
I'm genuinely trying to work out if there's a whole bunch of ways this can make sense, because I keep seeing posts in my thread that just seem to use completely retarded logic and frankly I just don't quite get how someone can take 1+2 and make "Bioware are **** writers".

Maybe I should just stay off forums for my own sanity...

I've looked at your link, but I sincerely don't know why you made it in a separate thread. It's like letting the Alpha Relay open.. You can be sure that you'll get a massive troll invasion.
Most of the anti-IT don't even have a clue about the most basic hints and explanations of the theory (I can't possibly imagine that someone with common sense, a bit informed about the mass effect universe and some knowledge about Indoctrination, could wholeheartly reject the IT), let alone about that you have posted.
When I heard for the first time that most of the people dismissed the IT was because they didn't like to be fooled, I laughed hard. I mean what's the problem with it ? In real life everyone of us has been fooled at least once... We learn out of our mistakes. If IT turns out officially to be true, I personally see it as milestone in the relation between game and player, a new kind of interactivity which was never reached till today. To witness something like this is a privilege...

Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

[Uncle Jo]

TSA_383 wrote...

*snip*

True, but the main forum's got a much bigger audience, and I had such a "the ****?" moment when going through that stuff that I assumed it'd be difficult for people to just assume it was all rubbish.

Then one of the early comments was something along the lines of "the red herring must be referring to itself" and I died a little inside

True, but a bigger audience doesn't mean a better audience .  We can't speak (or laugh) about everything with everyone. Anyways great post !

[Destructorlio]

Karolus_V wrote...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

 

There will be backlash, but this is just one of the symptoms of elevating games into art- there is always a backlash against art. In order to get Indoctrination to work, they had to 'fool' the gamer into believing the lie. That is the whole point. Some people are not going to appreciate being fooled and are going to cry foul. Those of us who appreciate the time, talent and sheer balls needed to pull this off are going to love it. But not everyone is going to love it.

It's like when Peter Jackson made that hoax documentary ('Forgotten Silver' - 
http://en.wikipedia....orgotten_Silver ) that had fake footage of the Gallipolli trenches in it. I thought it was utter genius, loved the documentary and patted myself on the back for figuring out the secret before it was revealed the next day. But Peter Jackson got death threats over this thing- some people still hate him to this very day because he pulled the woll over their eyes. Does this alter the quality of Forgotten Silver? Not a jot. Some people just don't appreciate it, and that's fine. ME3 will be the same- but it will be remembered as a watershed moment in gaming, I can tell you that.

Karolus_V wrote... 

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

No, if it was all just cutting corners, the clues wouldn't all point in the same direction- they'd point in random directions. Also, Bioware's stance has been utterly consistent with IT. If IT was not true, they'd be giving interviews about the ending, tweeting answers to people's questions, and generally being open about it. But if IT was true, they would be maintaining radio silence and only giving cryptic replies to everyone's questions- which is precisely what they are doing.

[prettz]

can anyone else hear what sounds like a train in the first part of the control ending?

[Uncle Jo]

Karolus_V wrote...


Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

Being a fanatic never helped anyone (this applies for both sides). If everyone can keep their cool and is willing accept the opinion of the others, then it's very fun to discuss . In the worst case, you can simply agree to disagree and if someone becomes too agressive, ignore them. That's all.
Don't forget also something, it's still just a game. We all love it (personally its my favourite one, I'm playing for more than twenty years and I've never got so much invested in a game) but it's a game.

And yes, it could be a serious backlash, but it's still something we never have seen in the videogame history (for the better or the worst).

If you really like the IT, you should sometimes take a look on this thread, there is a lot of your doubts which could disappear..

Edit : Bioware wanted speculations from everyone. In one sense, "mission accomplished".

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 21 mai 2012 - 01:56 .

[Arian Dynas]

Destructorlio wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

 

There will be backlash, but this is just one of the symptoms of elevating games into art- there is always a backlash against art. In order to get Indoctrination to work, they had to 'fool' the gamer into believing the lie. That is the whole point. Some people are not going to appreciate being fooled and are going to cry foul. Those of us who appreciate the time, talent and sheer balls needed to pull this off are going to love it. But not everyone is going to love it.

It's like when Peter Jackson made that hoax documentary ('Forgotten Silver' - 
http://en.wikipedia....orgotten_Silver ) that had fake footage of the Gallipolli trenches in it. I thought it was utter genius, loved the documentary and patted myself on the back for figuring out the secret before it was revealed the next day. But Peter Jackson got death threats over this thing- some people still hate him to this very day because he pulled the woll over their eyes. Does this alter the quality of Forgotten Silver? Not a jot. Some people just don't appreciate it, and that's fine. ME3 will be the same- but it will be remembered as a watershed moment in gaming, I can tell you that.

Karolus_V wrote... 

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

No, if it was all just cutting corners, the clues wouldn't all point in the same direction- they'd point in random directions. Also, Bioware's stance has been utterly consistent with IT. If IT was not true, they'd be giving interviews about the ending, tweeting answers to people's questions, and generally being open about it. But if IT was true, they would be maintaining radio silence and only giving cryptic replies to everyone's questions- which is precisely what they are doing.

Going to point this out AGAIN, aside from the fact that both EA and Bioware have HUGE financial reasons, Bioware as artists have reasons, they are truly interacting with their audience and are causing them to actually roleplay, creating a character a personality, adopting a persona, and doing the one thing they claimed they would from the very beginning. 

Bioware makes games they would like to play.

Arian Dynas wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

I did wonder when all this started if the reaction to IT being made was supposed to be "Ah, so that's it" followed by sitting back and waiting for the reveal, but instead they got "Noez! You are teh gay! Waltrs cant rite! Ending still suxorz!" and more copies were returned to the stores.

I'm kinda sad that my legendsave will tell them I was indoctinated, but I actually chose synthesis first to see what the combined people would look like (and was dissapointed by 'normal but with green eyes') then went back and properly thought about it, eventually deciding on destroy.

Well the funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds)  and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy,  something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people,  do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

 

[D.Sharrah]

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reading through some of this just reminded me of some of the scenes from "Fight Club"...in particular the ending sequence where Edward Norton Jr. shoots himself through the cheek in order to "kill" Brad Pitt (this of course relating to the Anderson shot/Shepard clutching the wound thing)...

@ AD, you marketing timeline theory is brillant!

I agree with most here that IT seems more and more plausible each day that evidence is teased out of the game, and find it hard to believe/understand that there are still people that do want to even give IT a second thought.

As fas as the highlighted portion of the architecture from Object Rho, I think what the poster was trying to get at (and I could be wrong), is that the unindentified piece of rubble looks eerily similar to the structure of reaper tech/artifact that was clearly capable of indoctrination...perhaps Shepard does cause something to actually blow-up and what it was that device - the last "dream" imgaes that we see are a last ditch indoctrination effort to place fear/doubt in Shepard's unconscious mind - which (if EMS is low enough) results in Shepard not having the willpower to go on, hence no "breath scene".

First I wanted to bump this post from earlier to see if anyone had any comments...

Second,  time and time again it has been siad that math is the uiversal language.  Look at the movie Contact, they recieved a coded message with a crap load of data in it and didn't have a clue what to do with it, until they deciphered the message and realized that it was math.  Once they figured that out there were able to build incredibly complex machine w/o much knowledge of how it worked or what it did - they just knew what to do b/c the math told them that much...I always assumed the Crucible plans were similar.

Edit: Ninja'd by Batman Turian

Bumping this again...I think it deserves discussion.

First as stated above I feel that this deserves discussion and is getting bumped again due to FTL speed that these forum sometimes travel in...

Second, I was just reading through some of the recent posts discussing what the "If IT is true" will mean in regards to the game, gamer, and industry...it reminded again of what Casey Hudson said about wanting to make the player feel what Shepard was feeling...which lead me to the fact that many of the forumites have speculated that perhaps they were not just indoctrinating Shepard, but indoctrinating us...then my mind jumped to the anit-IT crowd (since that was part of the discussion), and that is when I had the WTF moment of WTF moments...what if the anti-IT push is actually coming from Bioware to try and keep the majority of the community off the right track.  So, that when (if) IT is actually unveiled/revealed/confirmed (whatever you wish to call it) most of the community truly feels like they were indoctrainated/duped (again whatever you wish to call it)?

[TSA_383]

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reading through some of this just reminded me of some of the scenes from "Fight Club"...in particular the ending sequence where Edward Norton Jr. shoots himself through the cheek in order to "kill" Brad Pitt (this of course relating to the Anderson shot/Shepard clutching the wound thing)...

@ AD, you marketing timeline theory is brillant!

I agree with most here that IT seems more and more plausible each day that evidence is teased out of the game, and find it hard to believe/understand that there are still people that do want to even give IT a second thought.

As fas as the highlighted portion of the architecture from Object Rho, I think what the poster was trying to get at (and I could be wrong), is that the unindentified piece of rubble looks eerily similar to the structure of reaper tech/artifact that was clearly capable of indoctrination...perhaps Shepard does cause something to actually blow-up and what it was that device - the last "dream" imgaes that we see are a last ditch indoctrination effort to place fear/doubt in Shepard's unconscious mind - which (if EMS is low enough) results in Shepard not having the willpower to go on, hence no "breath scene".

First I wanted to bump this post from earlier to see if anyone had any comments...

Second,  time and time again it has been siad that math is the uiversal language.  Look at the movie Contact, they recieved a coded message with a crap load of data in it and didn't have a clue what to do with it, until they deciphered the message and realized that it was math.  Once they figured that out there were able to build incredibly complex machine w/o much knowledge of how it worked or what it did - they just knew what to do b/c the math told them that much...I always assumed the Crucible plans were similar.

Edit: Ninja'd by Batman Turian

Bumping this again...I think it deserves discussion.

First as stated above I feel that this deserves discussion and is getting bumped again due to FTL speed that these forum sometimes travel in...

Second, I was just reading through some of the recent posts discussing what the "If IT is true" will mean in regards to the game, gamer, and industry...it reminded again of what Casey Hudson said about wanting to make the player feel what Shepard was feeling...which lead me to the fact that many of the forumites have speculated that perhaps they were not just indoctrinating Shepard, but indoctrinating us...then my mind jumped to the anit-IT crowd (since that was part of the discussion), and that is when I had the WTF moment of WTF moments...what if the anti-IT push is actually coming from Bioware to try and keep the majority of the community off the right track.  So, that when (if) IT is actually unveiled/revealed/confirmed (whatever you wish to call it) most of the community truly feels like they were indoctrainated/duped (again whatever you wish to call it)?

This is one of those situations where we can apply Occam's Razor

-Bioware is subversively trolling their fanbase via message boards.
Vs:
-There are a lot of very slow people on the internet.

[D.Sharrah]

@ TSA_383: I am not so sure...with how adamant there very public statements regarding their "artistic integrity", I would not put anything past them if it meant protecting their vision of the ending in all of its glory - in fact, the one thing that I can think of that would have ruined it for them, is if they had simply fooled no one.

[TSA_383]

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ TSA_383: I am not so sure...with how adamant there very public statements regarding their "artistic integrity", I would not put anything past them if it meant protecting their vision of the ending in all of its glory - in fact, the one thing that I can think of that would have ruined it for them, is if they had simply fooled no one.

Possible.
But what I think more likely is that relatively few people in the organisation (probably not the PR people) would have been told about it until probably very recently. Given how much stuff leaked from ME3 before release I'd say that'd be a wise strategy.

[Karolus_V]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

Being a fanatic never helped anyone (this applies for both sides). If everyone can keep their cool and is willing accept the opinion of the others, then it's very fun to discuss . In the worst case, you can simply agree to disagree and if someone becomes too agressive, ignore them. That's all.
Don't forget also something, it's still just a game. We all love it (personally its my favourite one, I'm playing for more than twenty years and I've never got so much invested in a game) but it's a game.

And yes, it could be a serious backlash, but it's still something we never have seen in the videogame history (for the better or the worst).

If you really like the IT, you should sometimes take a look on this thread, there is a lot of your doubts which could disappear..

Edit : Bioware wanted speculations from everyone. In one sense, "mission accomplished".

My first doubt is EA. I have really good reasons to think they said Bioware "end this NOW". Most recent case? Command and Conquer 4, Tiberian Twilight (if you doesnt know, a scifi RTS with, in my opinon a good storyline and even choices sometimes >:>!) .Well, C&C4 was going to be the end of the Tiberium saga, with 4 games, and inbetween some expansions(and with cutescenes with actors in them).15 years from first game to last. C&C fans wanting to know how all is going to end. What we got? A cutted down game that only resembles C&C in the name, and because Kane is in it. Why was that? EA sliced the budget a lot(like in half if I remember well,MID DEVELOPMENT), wanted to put more enfasis in multiplayer (even in single campaign, you have a CPU companion replacing the second player , if you are playing solo) and wanted it out ASAP. What was the worst? The story in reality wasnt going to end like it ended...so MEH.

And second, about my doubts, I wait until EC. Perhaps they really arent going the IT route, and there is something else, or they are going to improve the quality of the ending, making it good, without actually going IT. Even with that, as I said, something is fishy with ME3 ending.