55528 réponses à ce sujet

[insomniak9]

It's not speculating, people can actually see these things we're talking about.

Here is the Cerberus logo image



I'm not sure if they're Banshees or Husks, but there's definitely 2 big Dreadnought cannons pointing at them when you run up that slope.

Modifié par insomniak9, 29 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[paxxton]

You don't approve my theory. Fine. So be it!

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 10:26 .

[jgibson14352]

Peytl wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Can we move away from the rubble to the more interesting and subtle comparisons?

kthx

I'd like that too, but some people still seem to ignore the obvious aspects.

I do love how those shadows you see going up the ramp towards the control panel look eerily like humanoid figures.  I never would have noticed.  And while I can't be sure if its 'proof' of anything, I'm sure it had to be deliberate.

Point is, we're comparing visible objects, while you're specculating. Specculation doesn't hold water. Shepard can be on Mars or in Vencouver, if THE cables can be found all over the Galaxy.

can we just drop this? theres better stuff to talk about then comparing dirt.

[jgibson14352]

@insomniak9 thank you for the repost, i just compared it with the real one and there is no doubt thats intentional

[paxxton]

http://kotaku.com/59...he-extended-cut

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 10:31 .

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

http://kotaku.com/59...he-extended-cut

twitter.com/me3rejects

Haha, they're like the TNG Season 8 feed. Awesome!

[Rifneno]

N-Seven wrote...

Um what?  They haven't been harvested because they're not dead yet.  It's just a transportation device.

You should go back to ME2 and tell the Normandy crew not to worry about being harvested because the Collectors take them alive.

[N-Seven]

jgibson14352 wrote...

just thought of something, if IT is real, (and i hope it is), and it was already very clearly established in the original endings (which it was), why put out the EC? its just wasted time, money, and effort, isnt it? if IT is true, they could have proven it in a dlc without the EC to begin with.

Which is why IT isn't real.

No company would waste the man-hours, resources, and take the time-hit to other projects to release a phony ending.

They also wouldn't want to release a 'real third ending' as paid DLC.  The negative outcry from fans and within the industry wouldn't be worth the few bucks IMHO.

Also no company would want the flak that the original endings caused.   The disgusting personal attacks on staff on this forum, the twitter bombs.  The metacritic bombing.  The threats of legal action, and also if I remember the veiled physical threats.  The negative scrutiny from the press, and the possible alienation of their fanbase, and damage to their reputation within the industry.

If you believe IT is real (outside of fanfic) then you believe Bioware planned and wanted all that.

You also believe that the Extended Cut is just more fakery, and that Bioware committed resources in order to be 'cute' and provide more clues.

You also believe that there is a continuing, sustained project of deception going on from everyone involved in the project, from producers, to writers, and voice-actors.  That every 'making of' documentary, developer and writer blog and interview, is hiding something.   And they have sustained this for more than three months after the game's release, even though sales have dropped substantially.  (not a knock on the game.  All games do).   That when they state that there will be 'no further game content' you say they are lying.

It's far too conspiracy-theory-ish.  Not only that, it would be terrible business on their part.

The simpler answer?  They are just human and dropped the ball on the endings due to time, budget, and publisher pressure.

[SubAstris]

N-Seven wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

just thought of something, if IT is real, (and i hope it is), and it was already very clearly established in the original endings (which it was), why put out the EC? its just wasted time, money, and effort, isnt it? if IT is true, they could have proven it in a dlc without the EC to begin with.

Which is why IT isn't real.

No company would waste the man-hours, resources, and take the time-hit to other projects to release a phony ending.

They also wouldn't want to release a 'real third ending' as paid DLC.  The negative outcry from fans and within the industry wouldn't be worth the few bucks IMHO.

Also no company would want the flak that the original endings caused.   The disgusting personal attacks on staff on this forum, the twitter bombs.  The metacritic bombing.  The threats of legal action, and also if I remember the veiled physical threats.  The negative scrutiny from the press, and the possible alienation of their fanbase, and damage to their reputation within the industry.

If you believe IT is real (outside of fanfic) then you believe Bioware planned and wanted all that.

You also believe that the Extended Cut is just more fakery, and that Bioware committed resources in order to be 'cute' and provide more clues.

You also believe that there is a continuing, sustained project of deception going on from everyone involved in the project, from producers, to writers, and voice-actors.  That every 'making of' documentary, developer and writer blog and interview, is hiding something.   And they have sustained this for more than three months after the game's release, even though sales have dropped substantially.  (not a knock on the game.  All games do).   That when they state that there will be 'no further game content' you say they are lying.

It's far too conspiracy-theory-ish.  Not only that, it would be terrible business on their part.

The simpler answer?  They are just human and dropped the ball on the endings due to time, budget, and publisher pressure.

I'm not sure they would have expected such an outcry, although I do agree that EC makes little sense

[insomniak9]

You on the other hand prefer to ignore all the weird stuff that happens once Harbys red light district kicks you into next Tuesday?

you know, the stuff the devs put into the game.

ok then.

[Andromidius]

Peytl wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Can we move away from the rubble to the more interesting and subtle comparisons?

kthx

I'd like that too, but some people still seem to ignore the obvious aspects.

I do love how those shadows you see going up the ramp towards the control panel look eerily like humanoid figures.  I never would have noticed.  And while I can't be sure if its 'proof' of anything, I'm sure it had to be deliberate.

Point is, we're comparing visible objects, while you're specculating. Specculation doesn't hold water. Shepard can be on Mars or in Vencouver, if THE cables can be found all over the Galaxy.

How many times.  Do I need.  To say this.

Shepard is not on the Citadel.  That is what you first claimed.

DROP THE TOPIC.  YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG.  ITS OVER.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

plfranke wrote...

I want an ITer to tell me why Bioware wouldn't confirm IT from a business standpoint if it was their intention.

Spoilers and the end of speculation.

Speculation keeps the game hot. Once the first few DLCs come out that provide more clues as to what is going on, it will probably get even hotter, and more positive.

They've driven up the desire for fans need of closure and 'a better end' for Shepard. Dead good or alive good; followed by real closure to Shep's arch with a decent codex narration of events - say 5-10 years into the future. Can't go much more than that if even that far given they may want to pick up ME4 very shortly after the war. There will be a lot of cleaning up and rebuilding to do.

That might be true amongst ITers, but for the ME player base at large, most have got the closure they needed through EC anyway. Hence why numbers of ITers have fallen in the wake of it.

Do you really think they will be able to keep up the hype until, at the very least, 2017 when no one is playing ME3? And we know ME4 won't be about Shepard anyway so that goes out the window

Not true, have you seen the comments to YouTube videos and other sites?

Yeah there glad bioware responded, and so am I, but the content in EC provides very little closure  for the majority of fans.

Yes, but compared to the original endings, most are happier. Not all, but a sizeable proportion

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

http://kotaku.com/59...he-extended-cut

twitter.com/me3rejects

Haha, they're like the TNG Season 8 feed. Awesome!

LOL, Mike Gamble actually retweeted that Kotaku link.

[MaximizedAction]

insomniak9 wrote...

You on the other hand prefer to ignore all the weird stuff that happens once Harbys red light district kicks you into next Tuesday?

you know, the stuff the devs put into the game.

ok then.

And don't forget the weird stuff that happens before Harby's red light knocks you out.

Speculations, speculations everywhere.

[dark_secret7]

Reposting this

http://social.biowar...ndex/12863867/1
About the video underneath the slideshow.
Any help would be appreciated

[paxxton]

.TI 38 O2

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[MaximizedAction]

Btw, repost from memebase:

[N-Seven]

Andromidius wrote...

 And you're essentially admitting you don't care/don't want to think about it, and thus have no place in this thread.  Taking the ending at face value DEVALUES Mass Effect. 

If you're happy with that, fine.  But don't throw underhand insults at people by suggesting we have no life because we're interested in debating something.

What?  So you're interested ni debating but for those countering your point (hey I used a smiley) 'we have no place in this thread'?

I'm getting at Occam's razor.  A simpler answer is better than a complicated on.  So I present the simpler answer.

As for devaluing Mass Effect...I feel that's absurd.  In fact I feel the other way around.  IT theory would be a cliched, Inception ripoff, with tips of the hat to Total Recall, the red-pill-blue-pill Matrix/Dreamscape and whatever other 'mind twister' movies or fiction you can think of.  

Are those movies, or those mind-twister themes bad?  Nope.  But would be nonsensical for a game series that has styled itself as a heavy-handed, fun, action space-opera (yes this is fantasy-space opera, not Foundation), to suddenly pretend to be a Christopher Nolan or M Night Shymyalan movie riddled with subtle hints.  And lets face it, the story telling in this series has been heavy handed.  If there was a mental struggle going on, Bioware would let you know it from the get go.  There probably would have been a mini-game.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Btw, repost from memebase:

Batman is a literalist.

Modifié par paxxton, 29 juin 2012 - 10:51 .

[Dwailing]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Btw, repost from memebase:

I get the feeling that Batman would have concluded that it was all an indoctrination attempt, too.  You know, since he's the World's Greatest Detective (Seriously, that's one of his titles.).

[Dwailing]

N-Seven wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

 And you're essentially admitting you don't care/don't want to think about it, and thus have no place in this thread.  Taking the ending at face value DEVALUES Mass Effect. 

If you're happy with that, fine.  But don't throw underhand insults at people by suggesting we have no life because we're interested in debating something.

What?  So you're interested ni debating but for those countering your point (hey I used a smiley) 'we have no place in this thread'?

I'm getting at Occam's razor.  A simpler answer is better than a complicated on.  So I present the simpler answer.

As for devaluing Mass Effect...I feel that's absurd.  In fact I feel the other way around.  IT theory would be a cliched, Inception ripoff, with tips of the hat to Total Recall, the red-pill-blue-pill Matrix/Dreamscape and whatever other 'mind twister' movies or fiction you can think of.  

Are those movies, or those mind-twister themes bad?  Nope.  But would be nonsensical for a game series that has styled itself as a heavy-handed, fun, action space-opera (yes this is fantasy-space opera, not Foundation), to suddenly pretend to be a Christopher Nolan or M Night Shymyalan movie riddled with subtle hints.  And lets face it, the story telling in this series has been heavy handed.  If there was a mental struggle going on, Bioware would let you know it from the get go.  There probably would have been a mini-game.

Oh Keelah, not this Occam's Razor crap AGAIN!  Occam's Razor does NOT I repeat does NOT apply to fiction!  The writers can make things HOWEVER FRAKKING COMPLEX THEY WANT TO!  God, I'm getting sick of people applying Occam's Razor to fiction.

[Rifneno]

N-Seven wrote...

Are those movies, or those mind-twister themes bad?  Nope.  But would be nonsensical for a game series that has styled itself as a heavy-handed, fun, action space-opera (yes this is fantasy-space opera, not Foundation), to suddenly pretend to be a Christopher Nolan or M Night Shymyalan movie riddled with subtle hints.  And lets face it, the story telling in this series has been heavy handed.  If there was a mental struggle going on, Bioware would let you know it from the get go.  There probably would have been a mini-game.

Yeah, I tend to agree.  They'd make it REALLY obvious.  Like, they'd have you do dream sequences full of oily shadows and whispers you can't make out and all those other indoctrination symptoms we know and love.

Huh.  Why does that sound so familiar?

[SubAstris]

plfranke wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

plfranke wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

plfranke wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Peytl wrote...

Tbh, we just need to prove that Shep was on Citadel in the breathing scene, which can be proven by simple comparison of the cabels. This definitely destroys the IT premise that Shep is on the Earth. It's like card house, you remove one card and everything will just break down.

Can someone from IT believers explain me, why the hell would BW expand the "hallucinations"?

Best answer is that they wanted to please everyone, which still makes no sense if IT was their true plan. Unless BW are deeply unprincipled in this respect.

If alot of people didn't like IT it males perfect sense for them to do what they did.

Why not just confirm the literal endings?

But I hear all the time that people love IT, your good friend Arian was quoted as saying 80% of people support IT.

They have done basically everything barring "IT is not true" to confirm the literal endings anyway (if you want to disagree, that's fine)

That's not true at all. First of all it's unfair to say because the biggest thing they could do to confirm is to say that IT isn't true, but there are other things as well. They made the scene where the normandy evacuates your squadmates ridiculous. They don't show anything about the breath scene. They kept the line from coates that everyone has been wiped out, yet somehow someone gives Hackett the intel that Shepard made it on to the citadel but then Hackett a few seconds later says "someone made it on". They kept the weird scene with Anderson and TIM and didn't do anything to show how they got on to the Citadel. There's a lot that's still very unexplained in the endings.

1) I'm not quite sure what you mean



2) I assume you think the lack of Normandy evacuation scene was ridiculous
before EC? I would agree, and I'm not too keen on the new one either. But I can
see why they did; the original was stupid, and BW did something about it,
although not to everyone's liking. They put time and effort into explaining how
your squadmates explained. This begs the questions of why they did it if IT is
true because its point would be null and void.



I'm not really going to answer the rest because its pretty standard IT fare,
and it's obvious what my position is on those matters. I'm not going to waste
your time.

It's not a waste of my time. I wouldn't have responded to you if I didn't think you have something to contribute. I'm interested to hear what you have to say about the rest. But for the meantime I'll elaborate what I meant. I mean that if Bioware really wanted to disprove IT all they would have to do is say it's not true. It's that simple. If IT is true Bioware is using it as a tool to get people to continue to buy dlc for the future ending that will give the series a fitting end. My point about mentioning the Normandy evacuation is this. There was something stupid and instead of fixing it in a proper way, like hell maybe even a mako picking them up and turning around, anything would have been better than the Normandy flying into an active war zone and flying away while Harbinger is literally staring at them. They replaced something that was difficult to believe with something even harder to believe. However, they didn't fix things that were even worst in my mind like Anderson and TIM.

Ok, in that case I will have a "go".

1) I'm not sure what you mean about the Breath Scene

2) In war-like scenarios, information changes very quickly. I am not that surprised that one minute they learn one thing, and the next something different. It is needed for the plot after all.

3) As for how they got to the Citadel, Anderson is explained as going up the beam as well, but landing in another place. My personal opinion is that they did this to add suspense (crude but effective). As for TIM's entrance being weird, think about games you have played in the past. I bet you can remember occasions where someone appears to come from nowhere. It's a common sight in games. We know already that TIM is on the Citadel, so when we meet him it's not that strange. If they wanted to make it really weird, they could have not put that in

I would like to first say that hopes of there being a future DLC for IT are very low considering BW's comments on the subject (you might want to look over a few of my posts in the previous page or two to see my view).

My view on the Normandy scene is that they put emotional appeal above the plot. A lot of people really liked that scene, I didn't because I was thinking, "this is not the time for sentimentality!". I don't think it is great evidence for IT though because I have seen similar things happen in other films, games. I can understand completely why BW would put it in without IT.

I'll accept your explanation about the Normandy because I actually can see that happening. I get what you're saying about TIM just being a plot convenience but come on. There was only one path to the control panel and the door on the other end closed. He would have literally had to come out of no where. Anderson as stupid as the explanation "the walls are shifting.... changing." is  I can give that to plot convenience but the TIM thing is just too far. If it's "information changing very quickly" why even have coates saying anything at all? Also why is it you don't believe in IT subastris do you just think it was terrible writing?

Sorry for the delay.


I don't think I am really going to convince you about the TIM point. Fair enough. What I would say though is next time you play a game pay attention to entrances of people often they do come out left field, it's just you don't notice it all the time.

As for IT, I think it was poor writing mostly. I know people often like to put BW on a pedestal and think they can do no wrong, but that simply isn't the case. ME2's main plot was bad and to my mind the whole game seems like the "odd one out". This is not the first BW game to have fan outcry (see Dragon Age 2) either. But the poor writing doesn't just start with the end; in the beginning, the "deus ex machina" in the form of the Crucible is really bad writing. 

Othertimes I just think ITers are mistaken, forgetting simpler explanations for things and instead preferring a more convoluted one in the form of IT. That's not to say they are definitely wrong, but usually the simpler explanation is the right one

[Dwailing]

Rifneno wrote...

N-Seven wrote...

Are those movies, or those mind-twister themes bad?  Nope.  But would be nonsensical for a game series that has styled itself as a heavy-handed, fun, action space-opera (yes this is fantasy-space opera, not Foundation), to suddenly pretend to be a Christopher Nolan or M Night Shymyalan movie riddled with subtle hints.  And lets face it, the story telling in this series has been heavy handed.  If there was a mental struggle going on, Bioware would let you know it from the get go.  There probably would have been a mini-game.

Yeah, I tend to agree.  They'd make it REALLY obvious.  Like, they'd have you do dream sequences full of oily shadows and whispers you can't make out and all those other indoctrination symptoms we know and love.

Huh.  Why does that sound so familiar?

All those other indoctrintation symptoms that can't POSSIBLY apply to Shepard because, you know. <_<

[insomniak9]

Your logic is like that if the flawed AI...

IT devalues a work of fiction, but you're quite willing to accept a deus ex machina?

The level of facepalm is mindblowing.