55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Xavendithas]

I'm with Rifneno, the quote pyramids are getting a tad ridiculous.

[Dwailing]

Xavendithas wrote...

I'm with Rifneno, the quote pyramids are getting a tad ridiculous.

Yeah, I'll admit, they do sometimes.  And I'm not completely innocent, though I try my best.

[Ravereth]

Ravereth wrote...

But what if Bioware realized, that too many players believe in IT so they decided to reduce the number of believers by EC?  I mean, what if THEY are indoctrinating US right now? What if they want Shepard's indoctrination to be a really big surprise for the MAJORITY of players? (making the poll about IT makes more sence if that's true )

And I have to say, that it's actually the only thought which still keeps me interested in this thread... My hopes for IT are really low right now.

BTW. Can someone check what happens if you choose refusal with low EMS and dead Liara? 


Is it just me or EC was planned all along... or at least they really planned to make the memorial wall scene in the original ending? Because the first time i saw the memorial wall and i noticed that empty middle part of it i had a feeling that it's prepared for Shepard 

And I think that the epilogue sequences pictures are  just an imagination of what CAN happen in the future and they're not showing what actually happend ( from a long time perspective) after making a specific choice.

One more question... Why is there an option of critical mission failure with: "the crucible has been destroyed" information? I thought that the Catylyst is controlling the reapers and that he wants Shepard to MAKE his choice... so why the reapers are so impatient? Why Couldn't he stop them? It doesn't make sense at face value so.... any thoughts about it's relation to IT? 

Oh and just one thought on synthesis (), I don't know why, but this line: "...As a galaxy, we can now live the lives we have wished for, taking our first steps into a new world and wonderful future where organic and synthetics can coexist peacefully..." reminds me of THIS 

Nobody loves me 

[Turbo_J]

insomniak9 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

The thing is, when you jump out on the catwalk to follow Anderson to the rendezvous with the Normandy, turn and look at where the kid was playing. There is no longer a garden there. It's just an empty rooftop.

You can't see where the kid was; you've walked all the way around the building 

Click the video link in my sig. There is no park.

[dark_secret7]

Ravereth wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

But what if Bioware realized, that too many players believe in IT so they decided to reduce the number of believers by EC?  I mean, what if THEY are indoctrinating US right now? What if they want Shepard's indoctrination to be a really big surprise for the MAJORITY of players? (making the poll about IT makes more sence if that's true )

And I have to say, that it's actually the only thought which still keeps me interested in this thread... My hopes for IT are really low right now.

BTW. Can someone check what happens if you choose refusal with low EMS and dead Liara? 


Is it just me or EC was planned all along... or at least they really planned to make the memorial wall scene in the original ending? Because the first time i saw the memorial wall and i noticed that empty middle part of it i had a feeling that it's prepared for Shepard 

And I think that the epilogue sequences pictures are  just an imagination of what CAN happen in the future and they're not showing what actually happend ( from a long time perspective) after making a specific choice.

One more question... Why is there an option of critical mission failure with: "the crucible has been destroyed" information? I thought that the Catylyst is controlling the reapers and that he wants Shepard to MAKE his choice... so why the reapers are so impatient? Why Couldn't he stop them? It doesn't make sense at face value so.... any thoughts about it's relation to IT? 

Oh and just one thought on synthesis (), I don't know why, but this line: "...As a galaxy, we can now live the lives we have wished for, taking our first steps into a new world and wonderful future where organic and synthetics can coexist peacefully..." reminds me of THIS 

Nobody loves me 

I do

[Xavendithas]

Ravereth wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

*snip*

Nobody loves me 

It was just bad writing. Lazy, really... j/k.

[SubAstris]

Dwailing wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I realise. But I must add that the clues are much more dialogue based and therefore harder to miss in KOTOR.  Seriously, how many people are going to look back at the garden compared to a mandatory conversation option?

Given that these games have been designed with multiple playthroughs in mind, I'd wager they knew someone was going to notice that. Especially after the role the kid plays at the end of the game.

I think what subastris is saying is this, in KOTOR the average player would probably be able to piece things together and see that there was foreshadowing. But the average player of Mass Effect is not going to notice the garden disappeared. sure you guys see it but how long have you spent researching the game? it's gone on too long for the average fan to appreciate a twist like IT

I understand the point that SubAstris is making. The point I'm making is that BioWare isn't writing this stuff into the game for the average fan that may just be picking up the story at ME3. This theory is geared at the people that played all 3 games multiple times, have read the books, gotten the Final Hours app, etc, ect. The fans that are going to have their heads explode at this type of ending.

Then all the guys you are talking about go out and buy ME1 and ME2, purchase the DLC and become BioWare crackheads like the rest of us.

It's possible, however with the way the trilogy has gone from ME2 BW has definitely tried to cater to a more mainstream audience and have tried their best to make sure that those who pick up ME3 as their first game of the trilogy do not feel left out. It would be strange considering that to think that they would have a plot that could be only be comprehended by so very few, I would guess less than 1% of their fanbase.

They could become "uberfans" like you suggest, but more likely they will be confused and put-off and won't want to touch another BW thing again

If they become confused and put-off, then that's their problem.  That's not BW's problem.

I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

[comrade gando]

string3r wrote...

So, I guess IT is pretty much dead at this point.

ahem ah, uh, mm, sshhh, *farts* NO. shepard still wakes up at the end of destroy somehow and there's more IT fuel in the form of harbinger saying serve us and the ever popular SO BE IT. as well as all the initial indicators that something is going on at bioware... something nasty... something awesome.

that should be a meme or something, someone says something you don't like then SO BE IT. then you kick them in the nuts, ruin their day somehow.

[Ghrelt]

After playing the Destroy ending and watching the others, I really think that the Reapers just send you to your internal happy place as they take over with Synthesis and Control. "Everything worked out great! Look, you made the right decision! Now just sit down here and watch the perfect galaxy you helped create!" As they either assimilate you into the Reaper system or take your body over completely. With the Destroy choice, you actually hit the button on the console to fire the Crucible. And when you Refuse, you don't press the button and they win.

[Ravereth]

dark_secret7 wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

But what if Bioware realized, that too many players believe in IT so they decided to reduce the number of believers by EC?  I mean, what if THEY are indoctrinating US right now? What if they want Shepard's indoctrination to be a really big surprise for the MAJORITY of players? (making the poll about IT makes more sence if that's true )

And I have to say, that it's actually the only thought which still keeps me interested in this thread... My hopes for IT are really low right now.

BTW. Can someone check what happens if you choose refusal with low EMS and dead Liara? 


Is it just me or EC was planned all along... or at least they really planned to make the memorial wall scene in the original ending? Because the first time i saw the memorial wall and i noticed that empty middle part of it i had a feeling that it's prepared for Shepard 

And I think that the epilogue sequences pictures are  just an imagination of what CAN happen in the future and they're not showing what actually happend ( from a long time perspective) after making a specific choice.

One more question... Why is there an option of critical mission failure with: "the crucible has been destroyed" information? I thought that the Catylyst is controlling the reapers and that he wants Shepard to MAKE his choice... so why the reapers are so impatient? Why Couldn't he stop them? It doesn't make sense at face value so.... any thoughts about it's relation to IT? 

Oh and just one thought on synthesis (), I don't know why, but this line: "...As a galaxy, we can now live the lives we have wished for, taking our first steps into a new world and wonderful future where organic and synthetics can coexist peacefully..." reminds me of THIS 

Nobody loves me 

I do

Thank you, now i feel much better! =)

[SubAstris]

Dwailing wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

XanderLav wrote...

plfranke wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I realise. But I must add that the clues are much more dialogue based and therefore harder to miss in KOTOR.  Seriously, how many people are going to look back at the garden compared to a mandatory conversation option?

Given that these games have been designed with multiple playthroughs in mind, I'd wager they knew someone was going to notice that. Especially after the role the kid plays at the end of the game.

I think what subastris is saying is this, in KOTOR the average player would probably be able to piece things together and see that there was foreshadowing. But the average player of Mass Effect is not going to notice the garden disappeared. sure you guys see it but how long have you spent researching the game? it's gone on too long for the average fan to appreciate a twist like IT

See, the thing is Indoctrination is far far far more complicated than KOTOR twist. Indoctrination is not supposed to be seen through. If 90 % of fans so through BW masterplan it wouldn't be indoctrination at all.

And that's exactly why it fails as a plot device.

Actually, that's why it SUCCEEDS as a plot device.  The point is that the PLAYERS are supposed to be indoctrinated, not just Shepard.  The great majority of people aren't SUPPOSED to have a clue what's going on.  If everyone figured it out, it wouldn't be a plot TWIST.  Some people have to figure it out.  Most are supposed to NOT figure it out, so as to make the twist more powerful.

If most don't figure it out, then you have lost the bulk of your audience, something a proper storyteller should never do. If your true intention is lost, then that's a big failing

Actually, didn't you know?  ME3's endings are a work of ART (Considering how much BW has talked about preserving their artistic integrity.).  And not everyone has to understand art.  Besides, they ALREADY made their money off of ME3.

O rly?

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So I went looking on google images for a funny "omg teh quote pyramids" picture to help illustrate the "delete key - you highlight stuff and it'll remove it!" campaign I'm starting. A very telling number of the results for quote pyramid came from this forum.

Uh, well, let's all blame paxxton!  jk, jk

I'm right here, Dwailing.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 juin 2012 - 12:29 .

[Dwailing]

Ravereth wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

But what if Bioware realized, that too many players believe in IT so they decided to reduce the number of believers by EC?  I mean, what if THEY are indoctrinating US right now? What if they want Shepard's indoctrination to be a really big surprise for the MAJORITY of players? (making the poll about IT makes more sence if that's true )

And I have to say, that it's actually the only thought which still keeps me interested in this thread... My hopes for IT are really low right now.

BTW. Can someone check what happens if you choose refusal with low EMS and dead Liara? 


Is it just me or EC was planned all along... or at least they really planned to make the memorial wall scene in the original ending? Because the first time i saw the memorial wall and i noticed that empty middle part of it i had a feeling that it's prepared for Shepard 

And I think that the epilogue sequences pictures are  just an imagination of what CAN happen in the future and they're not showing what actually happend ( from a long time perspective) after making a specific choice.

One more question... Why is there an option of critical mission failure with: "the crucible has been destroyed" information? I thought that the Catylyst is controlling the reapers and that he wants Shepard to MAKE his choice... so why the reapers are so impatient? Why Couldn't he stop them? It doesn't make sense at face value so.... any thoughts about it's relation to IT? 

Oh and just one thought on synthesis (), I don't know why, but this line: "...As a galaxy, we can now live the lives we have wished for, taking our first steps into a new world and wonderful future where organic and synthetics can coexist peacefully..." reminds me of THIS 

Nobody loves me 

So we're all too smart for our own good?  I can live with that. 

Also, like the other guy said, we all love you, it's just some stuff can get lost in translation.

Modifié par Dwailing, 30 juin 2012 - 12:31 .

[legaldinho]

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So I went looking on google images for a funny "omg teh quote pyramids" picture to help illustrate the "delete key - you highlight stuff and it'll remove it!" campaign I'm starting. A very telling number of the results for quote pyramid came from this forum.

Uh, well, let's all blame paxxton!  jk, jk

I'm right here, Dwailing.

That's why I put in the  and the "jk, jk".  Seriously, I've created my fair share of quote pyramids.  I'm not going to REALLY blame any one of us.

[paxxton]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So I went looking on google images for a funny "omg teh quote pyramids" picture to help illustrate the "delete key - you highlight stuff and it'll remove it!" campaign I'm starting. A very telling number of the results for quote pyramid came from this forum.

Uh, well, let's all blame paxxton!  jk, jk

I'm right here, Dwailing.

That's why I put in the  and the "jk, jk".  Seriously, I've created my fair share of quote pyramids.  I'm not going to REALLY blame any one of us.

LOL. It was a joke.  Today I saw an even bigger pyramid in this thread than I've ever built.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 juin 2012 - 12:32 .

[SubAstris]

legaldinho wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

I hope I'm clear. I'm saying it is a bad plot device for the exact reasons you have said. I think BW wouldn't use such a plot device for the same reasons because as a profit-based company they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

[comrade gando]

yo I recall the bioware devs saying they had a hard time coming up with how to play an indoctrinated shepard. It does sound pretty hard to do considering you've been in control of shepard the entire journey and now something else (harbinger) is in control. would he just make you kill all your friends in a cutscene and turn against the alliance and all them? a set of missions to eliminate those pesky organics for good?

or say you resist the indoctrination attempt and the last set of missions is to board harbinger and destroy it from within? maybe we can see what harbinger REALLY looks like, not just the ship?

of course I'm no writer or anything but I don't know how shepard can possibly stop these reapers if they can't be beaten conventionally. maybe the mysterious Leviathan can open up new options?

p.s. bioware your endings still suck bawlz and make no sense. please fix them. thanks.

[XanderLav]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

So I went looking on google images for a funny "omg teh quote pyramids" picture to help illustrate the "delete key - you highlight stuff and it'll remove it!" campaign I'm starting. A very telling number of the results for quote pyramid came from this forum.

Uh, well, let's all blame paxxton!  jk, jk

I'm right here, Dwailing.

That's why I put in the  and the "jk, jk".  Seriously, I've created my fair share of quote pyramids.  I'm not going to REALLY blame any one of us.

LOL. It was a joke.  Today I saw an even bigger pyramid in this thread than I've ever built.

You guys do realize it's not about the size, it's about how you use it.

[Dwailing]

SubAstris wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

I hope I'm clear. I'm saying it is a bad plot device for the exact reasons you have said. I think BW wouldn't use such a plot device for the same reasons because as a profit-based company they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

Who says they're a profit-based company?  Casey Hudson said they just like making games that other people would like to play. 

[Turbo_J]

Ellythe wrote...

After playing the Destroy ending and watching the others, I really think that the Reapers just send you to your internal happy place as they take over with Synthesis and Control. "Everything worked out great! Look, you made the right decision! Now just sit down here and watch the perfect galaxy you helped create!" As they either assimilate you into the Reaper system or take your body over completely. With the Destroy choice, you actually hit the button on the console to fire the Crucible. And when you Refuse, you don't press the button and they win.

Close but not quite (IMO). Shep never left London. When you shoot the tube you destroy the 'beacon' - I don't think it's a 'beam'. It may look like the conduit from ME1 but I don;t think that's what it is; I suspect it's a very powerful indoctrination signal/device. Eventually you wake up with the breath scene - and air support can actually get in there for the real evac (Many suspect Normandy was never realy there. How could Harbinger miss it, really!?).

If you refuse the choices, you don't  destroy the Indoctrination device and likely bleed out because any attempt at a rescue would result in those coming for you being indoctrinated or wiped out by husks, havesters, etc.

[Andromidius]

SubAstris wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

I hope I'm clear. I'm saying it is a bad plot device for the exact reasons you have said. I think BW wouldn't use such a plot device for the same reasons because as a profit-based company they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

By that logic they'd add all the endings everyone wants.  The fact they aren't adding in endings many people want (aka, Blue Babies) means they either:

1/ Don't care what people want.
2/ Don't know what people want (very unlikely at this stage).
3/ Are planning something special.
4/ Think they are being smart and artful, and people just don't apprieciate their genius.

[XxDarkTimexX]

can we make a new thread about indoctrination because i don't like reading 1398 pages of post

[SubAstris]

Dwailing wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

I hope I'm clear. I'm saying it is a bad plot device for the exact reasons you have said. I think BW wouldn't use such a plot device for the same reasons because as a profit-based company they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

Who says they're a profit-based company?  Casey Hudson said they just like making games that other people would like to play. 

And just happen to make millions of dollars, of course

[XanderLav]

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

SubAstris wrote...


I realise, I just explaining why BW would be wary to pick such an option

You seem very confused. You originally said it was a bad plot device because not enough would get it. Actually, it's a good plot device if it's difficult to get it. Now we're onto whether Bioware would have been wary or not to use it. Same thing in another series of posts. You seem quite conflicted, and the reasoning shifts like quicksand.

I hope I'm clear. I'm saying it is a bad plot device for the exact reasons you have said. I think BW wouldn't use such a plot device for the same reasons because as a profit-based company they want to appeal to as many people as possible.

By that logic they'd add all the endings everyone wants.  The fact they aren't adding in endings many people want (aka, Blue Babies) means they either:

1/ Don't care what people want.
2/ Don't know what people want (very unlikely at this stage).
3/ Are planning something special.
4/ Think they are being smart and artful, and people just don't apprieciate their genius.

3 and 4 can go together