55528 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Sharrah]

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

@ TSA_383: I am not so sure...with how adamant there very public statements regarding their "artistic integrity", I would not put anything past them if it meant protecting their vision of the ending in all of its glory - in fact, the one thing that I can think of that would have ruined it for them, is if they had simply fooled no one.

Possible.
But what I think more likely is that relatively few people in the organisation (probably not the PR people) would have been told about it until probably very recently. Given how much stuff leaked from ME3 before release I'd say that'd be a wise strategy.

Fair point.  I guess my point simply boils down to there seems to be a level of deniability go on in those anti-IT threads that is beyond comprehension...I mean they throw around terms that make themselves seem intelligent , like "confirmation bias" - but then are too blind to see that they also may be suffering from the same thing.

[DaniC84]

Hello...I've been lurking for a while now, finally figured out that in order to post I had to register my copy of ME3 lol....anyway.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but doesn't the kid voice of Starbrat sound a lot like the voice of the kid at the end ("tell me another story about The Shepard") I tried looking in the credits and stuff but I can't seem to find out if it is the same voice actor....if it is I don't really know what the would mean but just thinking out loud (or thinking and typing...?)

[blooregard]

So any ground breaking revelations as of late?

[balance5050]

DaniC84 wrote...

Hello...I've been lurking for a while now, finally figured out that in order to post I had to register my copy of ME3 lol....anyway.

Don't know if this has been mentioned but doesn't the kid voice of Starbrat sound a lot like the voice of the kid at the end ("tell me another story about The Shepard") I tried looking in the credits and stuff but I can't seem to find out if it is the same voice actor....if it is I don't really know what the would mean but just thinking out loud (or thinking and typing...?)

I think it is the same voice actor....

[Big Bad]

Karolus_V wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

Being a fanatic never helped anyone (this applies for both sides). If everyone can keep their cool and is willing accept the opinion of the others, then it's very fun to discuss . In the worst case, you can simply agree to disagree and if someone becomes too agressive, ignore them. That's all.
Don't forget also something, it's still just a game. We all love it (personally its my favourite one, I'm playing for more than twenty years and I've never got so much invested in a game) but it's a game.

And yes, it could be a serious backlash, but it's still something we never have seen in the videogame history (for the better or the worst).

If you really like the IT, you should sometimes take a look on this thread, there is a lot of your doubts which could disappear..

Edit : Bioware wanted speculations from everyone. In one sense, "mission accomplished".

My first doubt is EA. I have really good reasons to think they said Bioware "end this NOW". Most recent case? Command and Conquer 4, Tiberian Twilight (if you doesnt know, a scifi RTS with, in my opinon a good storyline and even choices sometimes >:>!) .Well, C&C4 was going to be the end of the Tiberium saga, with 4 games, and inbetween some expansions(and with cutescenes with actors in them).15 years from first game to last. C&C fans wanting to know how all is going to end. What we got? A cutted down game that only resembles C&C in the name, and because Kane is in it. Why was that? EA sliced the budget a lot(like in half if I remember well,MID DEVELOPMENT), wanted to put more enfasis in multiplayer (even in single campaign, you have a CPU companion replacing the second player , if you are playing solo) and wanted it out ASAP. What was the worst? The story in reality wasnt going to end like it ended...so MEH.

And second, about my doubts, I wait until EC. Perhaps they really arent going the IT route, and there is something else, or they are going to improve the quality of the ending, making it good, without actually going IT. Even with that, as I said, something is fishy with ME3 ending.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the ME series has made Bioware/EA vastly larger sums of money than has the C&C series, so EA would hopefully be less prone to **** with it.

[Arian Dynas]

Karolus_V wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

Being a fanatic never helped anyone (this applies for both sides). If everyone can keep their cool and is willing accept the opinion of the others, then it's very fun to discuss . In the worst case, you can simply agree to disagree and if someone becomes too agressive, ignore them. That's all.
Don't forget also something, it's still just a game. We all love it (personally its my favourite one, I'm playing for more than twenty years and I've never got so much invested in a game) but it's a game.

And yes, it could be a serious backlash, but it's still something we never have seen in the videogame history (for the better or the worst).

If you really like the IT, you should sometimes take a look on this thread, there is a lot of your doubts which could disappear..

Edit : Bioware wanted speculations from everyone. In one sense, "mission accomplished".

My first doubt is EA. I have really good reasons to think they said Bioware "end this NOW". Most recent case? Command and Conquer 4, Tiberian Twilight (if you doesnt know, a scifi RTS with, in my opinon a good storyline and even choices sometimes >:>!) .Well, C&C4 was going to be the end of the Tiberium saga, with 4 games, and inbetween some expansions(and with cutescenes with actors in them).15 years from first game to last. C&C fans wanting to know how all is going to end. What we got? A cutted down game that only resembles C&C in the name, and because Kane is in it. Why was that? EA sliced the budget a lot(like in half if I remember well,MID DEVELOPMENT), wanted to put more enfasis in multiplayer (even in single campaign, you have a CPU companion replacing the second player , if you are playing solo) and wanted it out ASAP. What was the worst? The story in reality wasnt going to end like it ended...so MEH.

And second, about my doubts, I wait until EC. Perhaps they really arent going the IT route, and there is something else, or they are going to improve the quality of the ending, making it good, without actually going IT. Even with that, as I said, something is fishy with ME3 ending.

Going to point this out AGAIN, aside from the fact that both EA and Bioware have HUGE financial reasons, Bioware as artists have reasons, they are truly interacting with their audience and are causing them to actually roleplay, creating a character a personality, adopting a persona, and doing the one thing they claimed they would from the very beginning. 

Bioware makes games they would like to play.

And the funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds)  and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy,  something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people,  do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

[D.Sharrah]

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

[D.Sharrah]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...


Bold part...

Yeah, a milestone ofnhow to enrage all your fanbase, make them fight between themselves, and in the end, make people wary of future games.  It's like the canon killing in twitter, the management they have done after the "crisis"...is stupid. Whatever is the case with IT, and if the EC isnt magnificent, there is going to be backslash, one way or another. I dont see after all is happening, anyone would see this as a privilege. 

--

Personally, I like IT, is by far better than we got now. In fact when i beated the game, I thinked something was amiss, but in the end, for how Bioware has been acting, I wonder if this ending and all this controversy, is in reality a byproduct of cutting corners in the production(time,resources, changing of personel).  

Being a fanatic never helped anyone (this applies for both sides). If everyone can keep their cool and is willing accept the opinion of the others, then it's very fun to discuss . In the worst case, you can simply agree to disagree and if someone becomes too agressive, ignore them. That's all.
Don't forget also something, it's still just a game. We all love it (personally its my favourite one, I'm playing for more than twenty years and I've never got so much invested in a game) but it's a game.

And yes, it could be a serious backlash, but it's still something we never have seen in the videogame history (for the better or the worst).

If you really like the IT, you should sometimes take a look on this thread, there is a lot of your doubts which could disappear..

Edit : Bioware wanted speculations from everyone. In one sense, "mission accomplished".

My first doubt is EA. I have really good reasons to think they said Bioware "end this NOW". Most recent case? Command and Conquer 4, Tiberian Twilight (if you doesnt know, a scifi RTS with, in my opinon a good storyline and even choices sometimes >:>!) .Well, C&C4 was going to be the end of the Tiberium saga, with 4 games, and inbetween some expansions(and with cutescenes with actors in them).15 years from first game to last. C&C fans wanting to know how all is going to end. What we got? A cutted down game that only resembles C&C in the name, and because Kane is in it. Why was that? EA sliced the budget a lot(like in half if I remember well,MID DEVELOPMENT), wanted to put more enfasis in multiplayer (even in single campaign, you have a CPU companion replacing the second player , if you are playing solo) and wanted it out ASAP. What was the worst? The story in reality wasnt going to end like it ended...so MEH.

And second, about my doubts, I wait until EC. Perhaps they really arent going the IT route, and there is something else, or they are going to improve the quality of the ending, making it good, without actually going IT. Even with that, as I said, something is fishy with ME3 ending.

Going to point this out AGAIN, aside from the fact that both EA and Bioware have HUGE financial reasons, Bioware as artists have reasons, they are truly interacting with their audience and are causing them to actually roleplay, creating a character a personality, adopting a persona, and doing the one thing they claimed they would from the very beginning. 

Bioware makes games they would like to play.

And the funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds)  and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy,  something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people,  do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

@ AD:  If anyone at Bioware had to sell someone else on the idea of using the IT in the main release of the game - this sounds like the sales pitch they would use, bravo!

[Arian Dynas]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

I do have a freind who is ****ing like a childish little brat about how EA is the devil and Bioware has been going downhill and blah blah blah, and rubbing this fact in his face WILL be satisfying.

[Arian Dynas]

Thank you Sharrah

[HellishFiend]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

[Xavendithas]

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

[D.Sharrah]

Not saying that I will actually do it...but their defeatist, pessimistic attitudes certainly are getting to me a little tonight...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 21 mai 2012 - 02:49 .

[Arian Dynas]

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

Good.

**** em, I say.

Yes I am taking a leaf out of Jack's book.

[paxxton]

What do the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 02:53 .

[HellishFiend]

Xavendithas wrote...


I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

I'm crossing my fingers that Bioware has some way of proving beyond a doubt that the ending was designed to be an Indoctrination sequence all along. If I were them, I would have had a plan in place to make sure there would be no controversy along those lines. 

[Xavendithas]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

Good.

**** em, I say.

Yes I am taking a leaf out of Jack's book.

I agree.

[D.Sharrah]

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

When in fact (if it wasn't Biwoare's plan all along) they should thanks us...since it elevates the game from perhaps the most questionable ending ever to best ending ever.

[blooregard]

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

Yeah when/if IT is confirmed the ****storm that causes will be monumental and hilarious.

[byne]

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Tonight (at least for me) more than any other time on the forums as I have bounced into some of the other topics and seen some of the anti-IT comments, has made me ope beyond hope that IT is right so I can come back here and make a topic entitled, "Nah, Nah, Na-Nah, Na....Told you so".

Actually, I bet the results and replies on the inevitable "told you so" topics will annoy the OPs more than it will annoy the targeted audience... 

If the hardcore anti-IT crowd arent humiliated by the eventual confirmation itself, forum topics arent going to do it, either. 

I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

I dont know how those people would reconcile claiming the ending was never meant to be changed or added on to with the fact that the game creates a save recording your choice at the very end, yet doesnt actually have any purpose within the current game, as there is a different save for NG+.

Their stock 'Bioware was lazy' response wouldnt even work for that, because if you were lazy you wouldnt create a completely new save that is worthless in the current game. It'd just be extra work.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

What the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

I think most of them are just engaging in angry mob bandwagon mentality, to be honest. Most of them are probably closet IT supporters, or closet optimists. If you've dealt with kids and teenagers enough, you learn to pick up on when they are using anger as a defense mechanism against being hurt (hell, even adults do it sometimes). Granted, its harder to pick up on that on an internet forum, but it still feels like that's what is going on here. 

[Xavendithas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...


I think even more anger will be directed at the IT believers if the theory comes to fruition. Some of the people seem so convinced that it was just bad writing they will just turn around and throw it in our faces that the ending got changed to IT because of us.

I'm crossing my fingers that Bioware has some way of proving beyond a doubt that the ending was designed to be an Indoctrination sequence all along. If I were them, I would have had a plan in place to make sure there would be no controversy along those lines. 

I suspect they will. I started playing ME1 again a couple of days ago... it is remarkable how much Shepard has aged by the events of ME3 when compared to how he looks in ME1. I think his ragged physical appearance is supposed to be an indicator of what is happening to him.

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

What the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

That's the thing, they don't really propose anything.  They contnue to fall back on the same things over and over again; like:

1. Bioware has sh*t writers
2. Bioware couldn't possibly think of IT, they are dumb
3. Confirmation Bias!
4. IT is a waste of time

etc., etc., etc...

[HellishFiend]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

I think most of them are just engaging in angry mob bandwagon mentality, to be honest. Most of them are probably closet IT supporters, or closet optimists. If you've dealt with kids and teenagers enough, you learn to pick up on when they are using anger as a defense mechanism against being hurt (hell, even adults do it sometimes). Granted, its harder to pick up on that on an internet forum, but it still feels like that's what is going on here. 

I should add that one of the reasons it feels like that is what's happening is because, well, theyre still HERE. If they were just pissed at Bioware and felt there was no chance of redemption for them (as they claim), they would have already made their peace and moved on by now. Instead, theyre still here, continuing to register displeasure and frustration. That suggests to me that theyre secretly (perhaps even unknowingly) holding on to the hope that Bioware wont let them down in the end. 

[D.Sharrah]

Can I reserve my place to watch the potential sh*tstorm, with a fresh bag of popcorn and a nice cold drink?