55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

Arian Dynas wrote...
Oh believe me, Skyrim is worth far more than just that.

Its worth it purely for sending Bears flying off cliffs with Fus Ro Dah!

[Starbuck8]

LT123 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Also confirmed by Megumi: www.youtube.com/watch

Ah, I can't believe I missed that. Thanks for the links
Not to sound ignorant (which I'm sure I will, considering how many times I've played this game) but it was just the calm expression before EC, right?

I missed it too, and I was the one asking for the video >_>

And yeah, it was just 'stoneface Shep' before.

Weird.

So Paragon Shep + Paragon response("Everything?")=calm
Paragon Shep + Renegade response ("Absolutely")=distressed

Correct?

What about Renegade Shep?

No not necessarily, some people had the opposite effect. We're not sure what the pattern is yet. Possibly other previous dialogue choices?

[dreamgazer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

byne wrote...

So, this is off-topic, but bandits in Skyrim
amuse me. I just shot one in the face with an arrow, but he didnt die.
After about 20 seconds of looking for me, he decided he was just hearing
things, and went back to eating food at the table. All the while with a
big arrow stuck in his head.

Lol it may be worth picking up Skyrim when I have the time, just to see that.

Oh believe me, Skyrim is worth far more than just that.

I will always have a soft spot for Skyrim.  After my  mother died at the end of last year, I played it whenever I had a free moment from work and tending to affairs as an "escape", and it was brilliant at escapism.  Gave you a situation where you felt in control, which was very important. Art style, atmosphere, depth ... everything was/is brilliant.

[Nightingale]

Starbuck8 wrote...

LT123 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Also confirmed by Megumi: www.youtube.com/watch

Ah, I can't believe I missed that. Thanks for the links
Not to sound ignorant (which I'm sure I will, considering how many times I've played this game) but it was just the calm expression before EC, right?

I missed it too, and I was the one asking for the video >_>

And yeah, it was just 'stoneface Shep' before.

Weird.

So Paragon Shep + Paragon response("Everything?")=calm
Paragon Shep + Renegade response ("Absolutely")=distressed

Correct?

What about Renegade Shep?

No not necessarily, some people had the opposite effect. We're not sure what the pattern is yet. Possibly other previous dialogue choices?

I think it's been confirmed that this is the only one that matters. And it's the other way around, Paragon is distressed (doubtful Shepard can do it) and calm is Renegade (confident).

Andromidius wrote...
Either that or Shep is getting bored of having the same dream over and over again

I think I'd look horrified to keep dreaming about this kid, not bored...

Andromidius wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
Oh believe me, Skyrim is worth far more than just that.

Its worth it purely for sending Bears flying off cliffs with Fus Ro Dah!

Oh, two reasons to pick it up now!

Edit: Quotes looked off. Also, to the above post, I'm sorry to hear that. Video games have always been the perfect escape for me, too.
The only thing keeping me from buying Skyrim is that I haven't played the other Elder Scrolls games. And the fact that it's similar to Fallout in some ways (both by Bethesda, at the very least) and I'm not a huge fan of them (only played 3 and New Vegas).

Modifié par DrTsoni, 30 juin 2012 - 03:43 .

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
Oh believe me, Skyrim is worth far more than just that.

Its worth it purely for sending Bears flying off cliffs with Fus Ro Dah!

This is by far the best Fus Ro Dah result I've ever seen, though.

[HellishFiend]

Simon_Says wrote...

Mind if I bring up something I touched upon earlier but I didn't get into fully?

Simon_Says wrote...

Yes, I believe the breath scene still makes more sense as being on Earth. (Though I’m unsure whether or not the game’s ending took place on Earth in a dream sequence given what else we see in the EC. This is a tricky subject that I think merits more discussion.)

The Extended Cut showed scenes happening between the times when Shepard enters the Citadel (for real or no) and they wake up (on Earth or not). Problem for me is that the breath scene makes more sense being on Earth, yet those scenes with Hacket, the Normandy, etc. all felt as if they were 'real', in my opinion. I can't figure out how they could be part of a dream sequence. So, to me, Shepard appears to have actually been on the Citadel to fire that Crucible. Yet they end up seemingly on Earth. Also, as many people noted, rejection doesn't show Shepard surviving, which looks like it should happen if Shepard was dreaming on Earth.

I've no clue what to make of this. Anyone care to tackle it? Anyone already did?

As for the post-choice monologues, I'm fairly certain those are not visions to Shepard but just summarizations of the galaxy's future made for the benefit of the player. In that sense they're not 'actually going on' in the story. Hence how in destroy we get Big Bada Boom, the Relay Network Crash, Normandy's landing, the monolgue, Normandy taking off, then the breath scene.

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible. 

[Andromidius]

Simon_Says wrote...

I've no clue what to make of this. Anyone care to tackle it? Anyone already did?

As cheap as it might seem, the only thing that makes sense in my head is that none of it actually happened.

An alternative to Shepard just 'dreaming' is a more advanced version of entering the Geth Concensus - the Conduit isn't really a teleporter device, but is a remote link to a Reaper AI program that is used for indoctrination.  Shepard is held in place by the beam during the choices and conversation with 'TIM', 'Anderson' and Starbinger.  If Shepard picks Refuse, Shepard is killed and the beam shuts off (you see the beam on the crucible turn off before it fades to black).  If Shepard picks Destroy the conduit beam is destroyed and Shepard is thrown out - injured but alive.

Whether or not Control or Synthesis do what they do in the cutscenes is mostly irrelivent with this idea.  The idea is how Shepard could be there, have it happen, but still show up perfectly alive on Earth.

Not watertight, and full of speculation, but hey.  It might work.

[Starbuck8]

Simon_Says wrote...

Mind if I bring up something I touched upon earlier but I didn't get into fully?

Simon_Says wrote...

Yes, I believe the breath scene still makes more sense as being on Earth. (Though I’m unsure whether or not the game’s ending took place on Earth in a dream sequence given what else we see in the EC. This is a tricky subject that I think merits more discussion.)

The Extended Cut showed scenes happening between the times when Shepard enters the Citadel (for real or no) and they wake up (on Earth or not). Problem for me is that the breath scene makes more sense being on Earth, yet those scenes with Hacket, the Normandy, etc. all felt as if they were 'real', in my opinion. I can't figure out how they could be part of a dream sequence. So, to me, Shepard appears to have actually been on the Citadel to fire that Crucible. Yet they end up seemingly on Earth.

I've no clue what to make of this. Anyone care to tackle it? Anyone already did?

As for the post-choice monologues, I'm fairly certain those are not visions to Shepard but just summarizations of the galaxy's future made for the benefit of the player. In that sense they're not 'actually going on' in the story. Hence how in destroy we get Big Bada Boom, the Relay Network Crash, Normandy's landing, the monolgue, Normandy taking off, then the breath scene.

Some would say that the epilogue is all a dream that Shepard wakes up from, which is why we see "visions" of the future and then Shep waking up.

To me, all 3 endings have a dream like quality, but it's a bit of a double-edged sword. All 3 ending sequences show us/Shep all the good, positive results of the choice, everything we'd want to see as an outcome, while hiding/glossing over the negative aspects. Even in Destroy, we've been told that synthetics die, but conveniently don't see any scenes or hear any narrative of these consequences (other than EDI's name on memorial wall: glossed over). Either this is BW giving all the literal ending fans what they want to see, or it's the reapers giving Shep everything s/he wants to see. (or both )

[Simon_Says]

HellishFiend wrote...

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible.

I don't know about the retreat, but I can help about the Normandy rescue.

Simon_Says wrote...
...Harbinger not shooting down the Normandy is likely not a plot hole, but a plot point. IT or not, it's obvious that the Catalyst, whatever it actually is, is out to manipulate Shepard in some fashion to achieve its own agenda. That it takes the form of the child from Shepard's nightmares is proof of that. So naturally destroying Shepard's ship, a vessel and crew with all the emotional attachement that implies, is not in the reapers'/Catalyst's best interests because they want Shepard to be sympathetic to them. They want Shepard to listen to the Catalyst. So destroying everything Shepard held most dear would be simply self-defeating.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 30 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[Nightingale]

byne wrote...

This is by far the best Fus Ro Dah result I've ever seen, though.

Wow. That's...creative

[dreamgazer]

Simon_Says wrote...
...Harbinger not shooting down the Normandy is likely not a plot hole, but a plot point.
IT or not, it's obvious that the Catalyst, whatever it actually is, is
out to manipulate Shepard in some fashion to achieve its own agenda.
That it takes the form of the child from Shepard's nightmares is proof
of that. So naturally destroying Shepard's ship, a vessel and crew with
all the emotional attachement that implies, is not in the
reapers'/Catalyst's best interests because they want Shepard to be sympathetic to them. They want Shepard to listen to the Catalyst. So destroying everything Shepard held most dear would be simply self-defeating.

Indeed.  Voiced the same thing a few days ago.

[Andromidius]

Actually, further expanding on my idea, Anderson could be caught in the same beam as well but gets killed while inside the conduit (Matrix style). TIM could be there as well, maybe connected to the same program somehow, and thus why he looks different and seemingly appears from nowhere.

Wow, that's me clutching at straws. Feels weird.

[Nightingale]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible.

I don't know about the retreat, but I can help about the Normandy rescue.

Simon_Says wrote...
...Harbinger not shooting down the Normandy is likely not a plot hole, but a plot point. IT or not, it's obvious that the Catalyst, whatever it actually is, is out to manipulate Shepard in some fashion to achieve its own agenda. That it takes the form of the child from Shepard's nightmares is proof of that. So naturally destroying Shepard's ship, a vessel and crew with all the emotional attachement that implies, is not in the reapers'/Catalyst's best interests because they want Shepard to be sympathetic to them. They want Shepard to listen to the Catalyst. So destroying everything Shepard held most dear would be simply self-defeating.

I agree. I pointed out a couple days ago that they could simply be using that as leverage against Shepard. They'd want EDI alive in an attempt to get Shepard not to choose Destroy.

[HellishFiend]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible.

I don't know about the retreat, but I can help about the Normandy rescue.

Simon_Says wrote...
...Harbinger not shooting down the Normandy is likely not a plot hole, but a plot point. IT or not, it's obvious that the Catalyst, whatever it actually is, is out to manipulate Shepard in some fashion to achieve its own agenda. That it takes the form of the child from Shepard's nightmares is proof of that. So naturally destroying Shepard's ship, a vessel and crew with all the emotional attachement that implies, is not in the reapers'/Catalyst's best interests because they want Shepard to be sympathetic to them. They want Shepard to listen to the Catalyst. So destroying everything Shepard held most dear would be simply self-defeating.

Yeah, but to even arrive at that, you have to assume the run to the beam is real. Given all the elements of the run put together, it's nearly impossible to believe that it actually happened. 

[Andromidius]

Simon_Says wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible.

I don't know about the retreat, but I can help about the Normandy rescue.

Simon_Says wrote...
...Harbinger not shooting down the Normandy is likely not a plot hole, but a plot point. IT or not, it's obvious that the Catalyst, whatever it actually is, is out to manipulate Shepard in some fashion to achieve its own agenda. That it takes the form of the child from Shepard's nightmares is proof of that. So naturally destroying Shepard's ship, a vessel and crew with all the emotional attachement that implies, is not in the reapers'/Catalyst's best interests because they want Shepard to be sympathetic to them. They want Shepard to listen to the Catalyst. So destroying everything Shepard held most dear would be simply self-defeating.

While this is possible, the problem then is why Joker seems okay with sitting there in front of Harbinger.  Joker wouldn't know the Harbinger has no interest in shooting down the Normandy.  Logically, he'd land further away surely?

[Starbuck8]

DrTsoni wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

LT123 wrote...
Weird.

So Paragon Shep + Paragon response("Everything?")=calm
Paragon Shep + Renegade response ("Absolutely")=distressed

Correct?

What about Renegade Shep?

No not necessarily, some people had the opposite effect. We're not sure what the pattern is yet. Possibly other previous dialogue choices?

I think it's been confirmed that this is the only one that matters. And it's the other way around, Paragon is distressed (doubtful Shepard can do it) and calm is Renegade (confident).

alittlewren said she got the opposite effect social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Was that a mistake?

[Nightingale]

Andromidius wrote...

Actually, further expanding on my idea, Anderson could be caught in the same beam as well but gets killed while inside the conduit (Matrix style). TIM could be there as well, maybe connected to the same program somehow, and thus why he looks different and seemingly appears from nowhere.

Wow, that's me clutching at straws. Feels weird.

He's already started looking different by the beginning of the game, though. That first shot of him on Mars, not through a hologram, I believe, he's already showing signs of indoctrination. He probably only looks normal because we see him through a hologram. It's somewhat like my theory that that's why Harbinger sounds different now than he did in ME2: every time he spoke to us was through a hologram or through an organic, never directly until the run for the beam.

[Andromidius]

Problem with my idea really is that for it to even happen we are then poised with the problem of the Normandy's rescue. So... Yeah.

Lots of hallucinations for everyone.

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but to even arrive at that, you have to assume the run to the beam is real. Given all the elements of the run put together, it's nearly impossible to believe that it actually happened. 

I disagree. It's a similar argument I posed about the goodbyes in London: with the addition of the "goodbye" to whomever accompanied you as they board the Normandy, that'd be a level of emotional manipulation BioWare simply wouldn't execute. 

Once you wake up from the blast and hit the Citadel, it's an interpretive gray area. But I'm of the mind that everything before it undoubtedly happened---perhaps with some detail manipulation from indoctrination. 

[Simon_Says]

HellishFiend wrote...

I've always assumed that the space scenes needed to look visually real for the sake of maintaining both interpretations. If the space scenes looked hazy or surreal, it would be a pretty dead giveaway. We have justification to question the reality of the space events just because of the nature of the events. I still dont buy the "Normandy Rescue" or the "Retreat" being plausible.

The thing is, I think I can actually pretty much nail down a version of IT where Shepard does go onto the Citadel, but encounters a hallucination Anderson/real TIM, goes to the Crucible chamber, talks with Starbinger and makes their decision where Destroy is the only option where Shepard survives and Starbinger's reaction to refusal is explained (basically, once Shepard picks nonaction Starbinger scares Shep into not doing anything else/Shepard breaks through Starbinger's disguise and it's not anger, just typical reaper haminess).

The only problems are that this would neccesitate Shepard waking up on the Citadel and needing an explanation for Starbinger's reaction to destroy (why it offered destroy is fairly simple imo: it's to make control and synthesis look good in contrast, and it has to be addressed anyway or else Shepard would ask.)

[Andromidius]

dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but to even arrive at that, you have to assume the run to the beam is real. Given all the elements of the run put together, it's nearly impossible to believe that it actually happened. 

I disagree. It's a similar argument I posed about the goodbyes in London: with the addition of the "goodbye" to whomever accompanied you as they board the Normandy, that'd be a level of emotional manipulation BioWare simply wouldn't execute. 

Once you wake up from the blast and hit the Citadel, it's an interpretive gray area. But I'm of the mind that everything before it undoubtedly happened---perhaps with some detail manipulation from indoctrination. 

Unless we go back to the Mako crash.  I mean we never do find out what exactly wrecks it.

[Nightingale]

Starbuck8 wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

LT123 wrote...
Weird.

So Paragon Shep + Paragon response("Everything?")=calm
Paragon Shep + Renegade response ("Absolutely")=distressed

Correct?

What about Renegade Shep?

No not necessarily, some people had the opposite effect. We're not sure what the pattern is yet. Possibly other previous dialogue choices?

I think it's been confirmed that this is the only one that matters. And it's the other way around, Paragon is distressed (doubtful Shepard can do it) and calm is Renegade (confident).

alittlewren said she got the opposite effect social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Was that a mistake?

Ah, you're right. I need to read more carefully, it seems. I'm not sure it's a mistake or not, we'd have to ask them, since it may very well be that despite it being what I said in Megumi's video.
...That makes sense, right? If not, I can clarify (and try it myself, if I need to).

[plfranke]

dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but to even arrive at that, you have to assume the run to the beam is real. Given all the elements of the run put together, it's nearly impossible to believe that it actually happened. 

I disagree. It's a similar argument I posed about the goodbyes in London: with the addition of the "goodbye" to whomever accompanied you as they board the Normandy, that'd be a level of emotional manipulation BioWare simply wouldn't execute. 

Once you wake up from the blast and hit the Citadel, it's an interpretive gray area. But I'm of the mind that everything before it undoubtedly happened---perhaps with some detail manipulation from indoctrination. 

that's a pretty terrible plan though. charging a beam with a reaper right there? I mean isn't that what they worked so hard to avoid? If you think about it the entire no mans land mission wass to get rid of the reaper standing in front of the beam and now harbinger the oldest and largest of all reapers is there but they just run in anyway?

[plfranke]

Andromidius wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Yeah, but to even arrive at that, you have to assume the run to the beam is real. Given all the elements of the run put together, it's nearly impossible to believe that it actually happened. 

I disagree. It's a similar argument I posed about the goodbyes in London: with the addition of the "goodbye" to whomever accompanied you as they board the Normandy, that'd be a level of emotional manipulation BioWare simply wouldn't execute. 

Once you wake up from the blast and hit the Citadel, it's an interpretive gray area. But I'm of the mind that everything before it undoubtedly happened---perhaps with some detail manipulation from indoctrination. 

Unless we go back to the Mako crash.  I mean we never do find out what exactly wrecks it.

they also didn't take out the I was born in london line damn it I just know there's significance in that

[Starbuck8]

DrTsoni wrote...
Ah, you're right. I need to read more carefully, it seems. I'm not sure it's a mistake or not, we'd have to ask them, since it may very well be that despite it being what I said in Megumi's video.
...That makes sense, right? If not, I can clarify (and try it myself, if I need to).

Yeah, that was the way it happend in Megumi's game. Would make more sense if it was always the unsure answer giving us the worried/puzzled look and the confident answer giving us a calm look. (Others have reproduced this version). alittlewren did not include the dialogue portions in her vid, so we'd have to get confirmation from her. It is perhaps other previous dialogues affecting the outcome, not sure...