55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Simon_Says]

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

That's... actually a good explanation in my opinion.

[alittlewren]

Starbuck8 wrote...

alittlewren wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

alittlewren said she got the opposite effect social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Was that a mistake?

Hi, yes, I  got the opposite effect. I will post the full videos for reference. Basically I chose all top options in both videos, except for "Absolutely" in the distressed version. I've done this several times with a few variations, and the only dialogue that seems to matter so far is whether or not I choose "Everything" or "Absolutely." I'm pretty sure that I haven't tried all variations however, so I'm not sure if that is really it or not. Just wanted to clarify.

Oh nice, thanks
This is weird btw. I am puzzled. 

It is rather weird... has anyone confirmed that these variations didn't exist before the EC? It just seems like an odd thing to add in... what would the narrative purpose be? Especially since it doesn't seem to be linked to any one thing for everyone... 

Anyway, here's the full scenes for anyone interested: 

Calm: www.youtube.com/watch
Distressed: www.youtube.com/watch

[HellishFiend]

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

Seems like we're getting dangerously close to "bad/lazy writing" here. Especially when you consider that one of the ones that can leave is Javik. Javik would sooner put a bullet through Shepard's eyes than let him stand between him and the destruction of the Reapers. 

[dreamgazer]

Simon_Says wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

That's... actually a good explanation in my opinion.

Agreed.

[Nightingale]

alittlewren wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

alittlewren wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

alittlewren said she got the opposite effect social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12047832/1388#12871248
Was that a mistake?

Hi, yes, I  got the opposite effect. I will post the full videos for reference. Basically I chose all top options in both videos, except for "Absolutely" in the distressed version. I've done this several times with a few variations, and the only dialogue that seems to matter so far is whether or not I choose "Everything" or "Absolutely." I'm pretty sure that I haven't tried all variations however, so I'm not sure if that is really it or not. Just wanted to clarify.

Oh nice, thanks
This is weird btw. I am puzzled. 

It is rather weird... has anyone confirmed that these variations didn't exist before the EC? It just seems like an odd thing to add in... what would the narrative purpose be? Especially since it doesn't seem to be linked to any one thing for everyone... 

Anyway, here's the full scenes for anyone interested: 

Calm: www.youtube.com/watch
Distressed: www.youtube.com/watch

Thanks for the links, though now I'm even less sure. It's been confirmed that it's new. No exact answer as to why, but I imagine it's for IT or at the very least to make a point of Shepard's state of mind. What was your EMS? That may have something to do with it, too.

[Simon_Says]

alittlewren wrote...

It is rather weird... has anyone confirmed that these variations didn't exist before the EC? It just seems like an odd thing to add in... what would the narrative purpose be? Especially since it doesn't seem to be linked to any one thing for everyone... 

Anyway, here's the full scenes for anyone interested: 

Calm: www.youtube.com/watch
Distressed: www.youtube.com/watch

Well the consensus before EC was that the third dream involved some sort of subconcious warning to Shepard not to trust the Starchild.

So this change could be interpreted as a subtle indicator to the player if they're on track for breaking the final indoctrination attempt. I mean, if it made any consistent sense. Which it doesn't seem to.

[Andromidius]

Simon_Says wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

That's... actually a good explanation in my opinion.

Of course it still means needing to disengage from combat.  I can't imagine the Normandy wouldn't be tailed by the fighter drones at all.  Plus it still arrives very promptly...

Still seems very fishy.  Plus the fact even if it was all true, and the team actually was injured by not being hit by the Mako, it means Shepard only cares about his/her own team and not for the hundreds of other soldiers fighting nearby who might need an evac too.

Its just rather contrived to take it literally.

[Lokanaiya]

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

[Nightingale]

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

Seems like we're getting dangerously close to "bad/lazy writing" here. Especially when you consider that one of the ones that can leave is Javik. Javik would sooner put a bullet through Shepard's eyes than let him stand between him and the destruction of the Reapers. 

Not if he believes Shepard's either going to fail and get them all killed (in which case, he'd be more than happy to get out and live to fight another day - we've already seen this just by the fact he's alive now) or that Shepard can handle it alone....and if she can't, then it's better he's nowhere near her screw-up So, essentially what I'm saying is, he's not going to die here willingly and getting out and leaving this vague hope the Crucible will destroy them to Shepard is enough for now. If he dies, he can't help - this cycle or the next, if it comes to that.

[Andromidius]

Lokanaiya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

Exactly, you worded it pretty damn perfectly.

And I'm sure it was done this way deliberately.

[masster blaster]

Also if you think about Shepard being Indoctrinated you the player Are Shepard so ya we the player are being indoctrinated becaues we see eveything and we are learning in the game about every little pieces of evidince about the game.

We are also Shepard's voice in his/her head because they give us control of Shepard's actions and when we tell Shepard to do something Shepard does it.

And Shepard does not believe he/she is Indoctrinated because we the player like I said are suppost to know what's happening right now if you paid attention to every scrap of codex/ storyline of the game.

And does it stike you that. Shepard can't just say " ya I am being Indoctrinated" and didn't Saren, and Tim believe they weren't being indoctrinated also/refufing to believe it happening. Get it Refuse/Reject and how many players did not want to believe that their Shepard can not be Indoctinated because he/she is their Shepard and their is no way that their Shepard would fall for it. So they deni it as did Tim and Saren did to, and say Shepard is immune to Indoctrination, because Shepard is the Hero and that's it.

But heros can fall into darkness and dispare at time even though they might not know it but they show it by their actions and thoughts.

[LT123]

Well, more on the dream stuff.

I'm not sure *what* determines Shepard's expression, but it's not tied to the dialogue options.
I just ran the same set (Paragon, Paragon, Paragon, clothes come off) three times in a row and got distressed Shep, calm Shep, distressed Shep.

I've been alt-tabbing out, quitting, and then restarting the game after each dream.

[HellishFiend]

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

Seems like we're getting dangerously close to "bad/lazy writing" here. Especially when you consider that one of the ones that can leave is Javik. Javik would sooner put a bullet through Shepard's eyes than let him stand between him and the destruction of the Reapers. 

Not if he believes Shepard's either going to fail and get them all killed (in which case, he'd be more than happy to get out and live to fight another day - we've already seen this just by the fact he's alive now) or that Shepard can handle it alone....and if she can't, then it's better he's nowhere near her screw-up So, essentially what I'm saying is, he's not going to die here willingly and getting out and leaving this vague hope the Crucible will destroy them to Shepard is enough for now. If he dies, he can't help - this cycle or the next, if it comes to that.

Take a look at what you're doing though. You're having to do BW's job for them. Making up reasons for why scenes are not well explained and are completely out of context. And unlike IT, lore is not on your side here. Andromidius is right, it's too contrived to be real. BW is better than that. 

[dreamgazer]

Lokanaiya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

I agree, and we've discussed why a little bit a page or two ago (at least, from my standpoint): shooting the Normandy and her crew down would manipulate Shepard in the wrong way, and it's clear now that: a) the catalyst shares consciousness with the Reapers; and the catalyst realizes Shepard's importance.  Sending Shepard into the decision chamber with a head full of dead friends and a destroyed Normandy would yield nothing but a refusal or a destroy option, and they don't want that at this point.  

It sounds callous, but the soldiers around Shepard are expendable, casualties of war.  But Garrus, Tali, Liara, Joker, the Normandy? It'd get personal. 

As far as the Normandy goes, I'm up in the air on its proximity---and Joker's feelings on the matter, let alone the crew.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 30 juin 2012 - 05:05 .

[Nightingale]

Lokanaiya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

We've been over this though, leverage. Keeping Normandy intact makes it easier for the Reapers to manipulate Shepard. It was easier to show this and them both getting injured during the run, especially considering Harby doesn't even get there until they start running. My reasoning on Joker was either further up or on the last page.

[HellishFiend]

Lokanaiya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

Thank you. That reinforces the point quite well. 

[Simon_Says]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

There is a reason, I think. To reinforce that the reapers are manipulating Shepard on some level.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 30 juin 2012 - 05:07 .

[Nightingale]

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

Seems like we're getting dangerously close to "bad/lazy writing" here. Especially when you consider that one of the ones that can leave is Javik. Javik would sooner put a bullet through Shepard's eyes than let him stand between him and the destruction of the Reapers. 

Not if he believes Shepard's either going to fail and get them all killed (in which case, he'd be more than happy to get out and live to fight another day - we've already seen this just by the fact he's alive now) or that Shepard can handle it alone....and if she can't, then it's better he's nowhere near her screw-up So, essentially what I'm saying is, he's not going to die here willingly and getting out and leaving this vague hope the Crucible will destroy them to Shepard is enough for now. If he dies, he can't help - this cycle or the next, if it comes to that.

Take a look at what you're doing though. You're having to do BW's job for them. Making up reasons for why scenes are not well explained and are completely out of context. And unlike IT, lore is not on your side here. Andromidius is right, it's too contrived to be real. BW is better than that. 

If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?

[HellishFiend]

DrTsoni wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

plfranke wrote...

hellish forgot to mention that the normandy arrives immediately after being called. for that matter what makes them think that the beam takes them anywhere useful. the beam could have transported them to afterlife club for all we know. london seems like it is all a dream tbh especially the charge

I don't like how quickly that happened, no, but we're not entirely sure if Joker prepared for the worst and had the Normandy relatively close by in the chance of an emergency (are we?).  Emotional intent trumps questionable logic in that situation, in my opinion.  Again, that would be the second time we're seeing a false emotional goodbye.  That's a lot to swallow.

It would make a lot more sense for the Normandy to be up in space, fighting the Reapers. After all the Normandy is an extremely powerful (a top of the line ship with cutting edge technology and, assuming you got all upgrades in ME2, very deadly weapons and very sturdy shields AND armor) frigate (less of a target and more manuverable) that's piloted by one of the best pilots in the fleet (even more manuverable and and deadly) I don't think a ship like that would be on stand-by.

That still doesn't explain why Harbinger didn't shoot down the Normandy, and the camera even focused on Harbinger just floating there several times. Why? If they wanted to get an emotional scene and to get Shepard separated from his crew, they could have just added more detail to the MAKO crash. MAKO bangs into whatever, actually acts like a car crash and is very violent, LI or whoever flings themselves in front of Shepard to protect him from debris and is very injured, everyone gets out and Shepard calls for evac for the LI and maybe other teamate, other teamate is either also injured or stays behind to help keep your LI alive until help can arrive, touching parting scene, Coates tells you that you have to go NOW, beam run as before minus squadmates. There, Shepard's lost his squadmates like before, has had a touching parting scene, it doesn't stretch belief as much, and Harbinger doesn't suddenly act brain damaged. Easy. Why do it during the beam run and specifically point out that Harbinger's not doing anything about the Normandy being a sitting duck right in front of him? As with everything else, there must be a reason.

We've been over this though, leverage. Keeping Normandy intact makes it easier for the Reapers to manipulate Shepard. It was easier to show this and them both getting injured during the run, especially considering Harby doesn't even get there until they start running. My reasoning on Joker was either further up or on the last page.

You didnt address any of the points in his post, instead pointing back to an earlier justification that is now out of context, because Lokanaiya is pointing out ways Bioware could have done that far better if they were going for what you say they were. So again, we're getting very close to bad/lazy writing here, because there are literally dozens of ways Bioware could have done that scene better, unless they wanted to intentionally make it hard to believe.

[alittlewren]

DrTsoni wrote...

Thanks for the links, though now I'm even less sure. It's been confirmed that it's new. No exact answer as to why, but I imagine it's for IT or at the very least to make a point of Shepard's state of mind. What was your EMS? That may have something to do with it, too.

Interesting... well my EMS is 5584, TMS 7865, and current readiness 72%. Hope someone's able to pinpoint it.  

[HellishFiend]

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

It's not out of the question then, that he'd break off and be in Earth's atmosphere rather than in orbit with Sword. He'd already be heading closer to the beam, too, once he got the order to intercept the Reapers leaving that fight.

Seems like we're getting dangerously close to "bad/lazy writing" here. Especially when you consider that one of the ones that can leave is Javik. Javik would sooner put a bullet through Shepard's eyes than let him stand between him and the destruction of the Reapers. 

Not if he believes Shepard's either going to fail and get them all killed (in which case, he'd be more than happy to get out and live to fight another day - we've already seen this just by the fact he's alive now) or that Shepard can handle it alone....and if she can't, then it's better he's nowhere near her screw-up So, essentially what I'm saying is, he's not going to die here willingly and getting out and leaving this vague hope the Crucible will destroy them to Shepard is enough for now. If he dies, he can't help - this cycle or the next, if it comes to that.

Take a look at what you're doing though. You're having to do BW's job for them. Making up reasons for why scenes are not well explained and are completely out of context. And unlike IT, lore is not on your side here. Andromidius is right, it's too contrived to be real. BW is better than that. 

If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?

Yes, the Mako crash is where I'm thinking the full hallucination begins. I've thought that since long before the EC. 

[dreamgazer]

The entire game, the Normandy has been away from battle to service Shepard's agenda. The attachment is there. The loyalty from the crew is there. That's not something easy to dismiss.

[Andromidius]

DrTsoni wrote...
If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?

That's my guess, yeah.  Though its hard to tell.

[Big Bad]

Rifneno wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

It's quotes like these that really make me bristle at the thought that Sovereign & Co. were really looking out for our best interests all along. Regardless of what Bioware does with the remaining DLC, I don't think I'll ever be able to accept that the Reapers have noble intentions.

Because they don't! It's all bull****. With the Reapers' technology, even if they did have to wipe out advanced civilizations for some grand higher purpose, they could do it much less painfully. Everything that isn't Harbinger doing a mindscrew points to the Reapers truly hating "lesser" life.

- Saren said that while Sovereign uses them for its goals, it's "insulted" by the heretic geth's "pitiful devotions."
- Sovereign's own speech about organics on Virmire.
- Ever had Mordin chatted up to the "tracked downfall of Protheans to Collectors" chat before getting to the Collector vessel for the Prothean reveal? He says the Collectors are pretty much being abused by their master. Their weapons are designed to be unnecessarily painful for them to use and cause permanent damage to their hands from long term use. They don't even treat their wounds. If they get hurt they have to just spend the rest of their lives in agony.
- The statis probes from the seeker swarms paralyze victims but leave them fully aware, completely terrified and horrified. Why not just render them unconscious?
- Javik and Garrus' talk of the Reapers' use of psychological warfare by turning your own kin against you.
- Look at banshees. They seem to be in constant pain. Even the codex mentions this.

Make no mistake, the Reapers hate other life forms. There is no noble goal.

I don't really have anything to add to this, other than that I agree completely. 

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

The entire game, the Normandy has been away from battle to service Shepard's agenda. The attachment is there. The loyalty from the crew is there. That's not something easy to dismiss.

But you are pointing at but a single aspect of the situation and using that as justification for your belief that the scene is real. When putting all of it together, it paints a picture that makes it appear that BW wants you to question the reality of it. Real Lokanaiya and Andromidius' posts. They know what theyre talking about. And BW are professional writers. They get paid lots of money to script these scenes. They dont script scenes that make you jump through mental hoops to justify the face value of a situation unless they want you to question the face value of a situation. Anything they want you to take as real is easy to digest and doesnt leave you thinking "huh?"

Modifié par HellishFiend, 30 juin 2012 - 05:12 .