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Lokanaiya wrote...
Masster blaster, if anyone had anyone to say on your posts, they would. Posting while two different discussions are going on at the same time isn't exactly the best way to make sure their noticed though. I'd wait until a lull in the discussion.
what? how? how can shep still be on earth without the dream sequence? and besides a great bulk of indoc theory evidence isbased off it being a dream. if theres no dream then you are taking the ending literal and then again nothing at all makes sense. andersons wound ending up on shepard, shepards gun changing back to what he had prebeam the close he gets to the desrroy option, anderson looking at you and saying you are indoced ecr. how do yoy explain them without a dream and what does the ec change. ec changed nothing. all it did was add more bsSimon_Says wrote...
DrTsoni wrote...
If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?
A hallucination/dream sequence isn't neccesary anymore with EC. In fact the EC actually makes it possible to interpret the whole ending as happening in-reality yet still fit with the primary themes of Indoc Theory. The only problem being that it's more likely that the breath scene takes place on Earth rather than on the Citadel, but information regarding that isn't concrete.
masster blaster wrote...
masster blaster wrote...
Also if you don't mind reading what I have on page 1411 thought would be great and is it just me or did we trust synthetics to much. Think about it Bioware wanted us to feel sorry for the geth and edi and it worked and now the catalyst is trying to say the reapers are not as evil as you think just like the geth were considered with the reaper but they were proven wronged because they used logic and evidence to explain why they did what they did, just like the catalyst is doing right now with Shepard.
Simon_Says wrote...
What I'm getting from this is that... reject is basically a denial of being indoctrinated, and thus another failure state.masster blaster wrote...
Also if you think about Shepard being Indoctrinated you the player Are Shepard so ya we the player are being indoctrinated becaues we see eveything and we are learning in the game about every little pieces of evidince about the game.
We are also Shepard's voice in his/her head because they give us control of Shepard's actions and when we tell Shepard to do something Shepard does it.
And Shepard does not believe he/she is Indoctrinated because we the player like I said are suppost to know what's happening right now if you paid attention to every scrap of codex/ storyline of the game.
And does it stike you that. Shepard can't just say " ya I am being Indoctrinated" and didn't Saren, and Tim believe they weren't being indoctrinated also/refufing to believe it happening. Get it Refuse/Reject and how many players did not want to believe that their Shepard can not be Indoctinated because he/she is their Shepard and their is no way that their Shepard would fall for it. So they deni it as did Tim and Saren did to, and say Shepard is immune to Indoctrination, because Shepard is the Hero and that's it.
But heros can fall into darkness and dispare at time even though they might not know it but they show it by their actions and thoughts.
... This may merit more thought. I'll get back to this.
How about this it's a combination of walking hallucination and dream state. When Harbinger arrives or even when Shepard arrives at London Harbinger launches full out attack on Shepards mind. (I'm not sure about this one but didn't Anderson in FOB told Shepard that he was born in London and Shepard didn't know. Was it here or somewhere else?) So Shepard start seeing things, hearing, imaginig. And when he gets close to Harby, Harby says his line "Serve Us" "One of Us" and Shepard is knocked out at this point.Joedogg9999 wrote...
what? how? how can shep still be on earth without the dream sequence? and besides a great bulk of indoc theory evidence isbased off it being a dream. if theres no dream then you are taking the ending literal and then again nothing at all makes sense. andersons wound ending up on shepard, shepards gun changing back to what he had prebeam the close he gets to the desrroy option, anderson looking at you and saying you are indoced ecr. how do yoy explain them without a dream and what does the ec change. ec changed nothing. all it did was add more bsSimon_Says wrote...
DrTsoni wrote...
If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?
A hallucination/dream sequence isn't neccesary anymore with EC. In fact the EC actually makes it possible to interpret the whole ending as happening in-reality yet still fit with the primary themes of Indoc Theory. The only problem being that it's more likely that the breath scene takes place on Earth rather than on the Citadel, but information regarding that isn't concrete.
Simon_Says wrote...
Lokanaiya wrote...
Bioware specifically shows us something to which our first impression is almost certainly "WTF?" They want us to question whether or not that's real-- Harbinger may refrain from shooting down the Normandy because of the reasons you mentioned, but the real root of the question isn't whether he would or not, it's why Bioware would make it that way. As I said before, everything has a reason, especially in video games. It took me 10 minutes to come up with that simple script for an alternate MAKO crash that would end up in the space place as the current one, and the only difference would be the absence of the "WTF?" reaction. I think Bioware, with its team of professional writers who gave us things like Rannoch and Tuchanka just in ME3, not even getting into ME1&2, would be able to come up with something better than I could. Before anyone says "plot armor!" or anything to that effect, I speak from personal experience when saying that a good writer knows how to avoid those situations, and Bioware definitely has writers better than me, at the very least.
By the way, just for future reference, I'm a girl.
Before I go further, I'll just link this little post. Basically, we can discuss IT by disregarding Bioware entirely and just develop something that makes sense within the framework of the game lore, or we can also think about what Bioware was trying to do. Most of the discussion so far I think has just been speculating about what works within the context of the game.
As for Bioware's involvement, Harbinger not shooting down Normandy could be a hint that the reapers are out to manipulate Shepard. Simple as that.
DrTsoni wrote...
Glad to hear it, your videos are awesomeHellishFiend wrote...
Sorry, I was afk a bit. Not ignoring you.
And yeah, I understand. I will probably be making videos for as long as IT remains unconfirmed (or until I get too busy to keep doing them), and that might be a good subject to cover.
Lokanaiya, just to antagonise you, I'd say they should've had Weekes and Dombrow (is that even how you spell his name?) write the end instead of Walters, but in all seriousness, it could be argued either way as to why they did things the way they did.
I'd get more into it, but I'm off for the night. Speculate with you more tomorrow, guys
Later!
XanderLav wrote...
How about this it's a combination of walking hallucination and dream state. When Harbinger arrives or even when Shepard arrives at London Harbinger launches full out attack on Shepards mind. (I'm not sure about this one but didn't Anderson in FOB told Shepard that he was born in London and Shepard didn't know. Was it here or somewhere else?) So Shepard start seeing things, hearing, imaginig. And when he gets close to Harby, Harby says his line "Serve Us" "One of Us" and Shepard is knocked out at this point.Joedogg9999 wrote...
what? how? how can shep still be on earth without the dream sequence? and besides a great bulk of indoc theory evidence isbased off it being a dream. if theres no dream then you are taking the ending literal and then again nothing at all makes sense. andersons wound ending up on shepard, shepards gun changing back to what he had prebeam the close he gets to the desrroy option, anderson looking at you and saying you are indoced ecr. how do yoy explain them without a dream and what does the ec change. ec changed nothing. all it did was add more bsSimon_Says wrote...
DrTsoni wrote...
If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?
A hallucination/dream sequence isn't neccesary anymore with EC. In fact the EC actually makes it possible to interpret the whole ending as happening in-reality yet still fit with the primary themes of Indoc Theory. The only problem being that it's more likely that the breath scene takes place on Earth rather than on the Citadel, but information regarding that isn't concrete.
I think it makes sense if look back to the begining of the game: as you progress more and more a lot of weird stuff happening.
Modifié par masster blaster, 30 juin 2012 - 05:57 .
Simon_Says wrote...
Lokanaiya wrote...
Bioware specifically shows us something to which our first impression is almost certainly "WTF?" They want us to question whether or not that's real-- Harbinger may refrain from shooting down the Normandy because of the reasons you mentioned, but the real root of the question isn't whether he would or not, it's why Bioware would make it that way. As I said before, everything has a reason, especially in video games. It took me 10 minutes to come up with that simple script for an alternate MAKO crash that would end up in the space place as the current one, and the only difference would be the absence of the "WTF?" reaction. I think Bioware, with its team of professional writers who gave us things like Rannoch and Tuchanka just in ME3, not even getting into ME1&2, would be able to come up with something better than I could. Before anyone says "plot armor!" or anything to that effect, I speak from personal experience when saying that a good writer knows how to avoid those situations, and Bioware definitely has writers better than me, at the very least.
By the way, just for future reference, I'm a girl.
Before I go further, I'll just link this little post. Basically, we can discuss IT by disregarding Bioware entirely and just develop something that makes sense within the framework of the game lore, or we can also think about what Bioware was trying to do. Most of the discussion so far I think has just been speculating about what works within the context of the game.
As for Bioware's involvement, Harbinger not shooting down Normandy could be a hint that the reapers are out to manipulate Shepard. Simple as that.
) Good night all.
masster blaster wrote...
It's possible and you know what's funny anyone of us could be a Bioware staff member and could be bring more info on IT so who know, but they don't have to say on their profile that they are Bioware/Moderators so ya.
Joedogg9999 wrote...
what? how? how can shep still be on earth without the dream sequence? and besides a great bulk of indoc theory evidence isbased off it being a dream. if theres no dream then you are taking the ending literal and then again nothing at all makes sense. andersons wound ending up on shepard, shepards gun changing back to what he had prebeam the close he gets to the desrroy option, anderson looking at you and saying you are indoced ecr. how do yoy explain them without a dream and what does the ec change. ec changed nothing. all it did was add more bsSimon_Says wrote...
DrTsoni wrote...
If that's the case, where does the hallucination start? When Harbinger says "Serve us" would be the most obvious, and I don't know that they'd have two fake goodbyes with the teammates. So the Mako crash?
A hallucination/dream sequence isn't neccesary anymore with EC. In fact the EC actually makes it possible to interpret the whole ending as happening in-reality yet still fit with the primary themes of Indoc Theory. The only problem being that it's more likely that the breath scene takes place on Earth rather than on the Citadel, but information regarding that isn't concrete.
is presented as worse than the other two to make those two look better.)Modifié par Simon_Says, 30 juin 2012 - 06:01 .
Andromidius wrote...
masster blaster wrote...
It's possible and you know what's funny anyone of us could be a Bioware staff member and could be bring more info on IT so who know, but they don't have to say on their profile that they are Bioware/Moderators so ya.
Smurf accounts? No, that would never happen...
*cough*
masster blaster wrote...
Lokanaiya wrote...
Masster blaster, if anyone had anyone to say on your posts, they would. Posting while two different discussions are going on at the same time isn't exactly the best way to make sure their noticed though. I'd wait until a lull in the discussion.
okay and it's cool that your a girl and play Mass Effect. Let me guess your married and have two children.
Andromidius wrote...
masster blaster wrote...
It's possible and you know what's funny anyone of us could be a Bioware staff member and could be bring more info on IT so who know, but they don't have to say on their profile that they are Bioware/Moderators so ya.
Smurf accounts? No, that would never happen...
*cough*
Lokanaiya wrote...
masster blaster wrote...
Lokanaiya wrote...
Masster blaster, if anyone had anyone to say on your posts, they would. Posting while two different discussions are going on at the same time isn't exactly the best way to make sure their noticed though. I'd wait until a lull in the discussion.
okay and it's cool that your a girl and play Mass Effect. Let me guess your married and have two children.
Actually, I'm in high school. I certainly HOPE I'm not married with kids...
Now, to sleep.... for real this time...
Modifié par masster blaster, 30 juin 2012 - 06:04 .
Joedogg9999 wrote...
Can someone explain why some people are suggesting that the post beam scene is not a dream anymore in IT? I understand some are suggesting waking hallucinations...but why do we need that? Why can it longer be full on dream? A full on dream is the only way the breath scene makes sense.
It is shepard
He is on earth
No way he survives citadel blast
Which can only mean he never went to the citadel in the first place. EC doesent change any of this
Okay I think I'm really, really don't know what I'm missing, cause it's something big.HellishFiend wrote...
You're skipping past the point though -which is whether or not the run is actually happening in reality - and making a case out of something that happens within the scene.
If Shepard were suddenly wearing a polka-dot dress during the run to the beam, would you use his possible reasons for wearing the dress as justification for taking the scene at face value? That's an extreme example, but the point stands. Just because Harby might have a legitimate reason to not shoot Normandy down in reality doesnt mean he wouldnt use those same circumstances to manipulate Shepard in the same way during an indoc hallucination.
masster blaster wrote...
It's possible and you know what's funny anyone of us could be a Bioware staff member and could be bring more info on IT so who know, but they don't have to say on their profile that they are Bioware/Moderators so ya.
Simon_Says wrote...
Okay I think I'm really, really don't know what I'm missing, cause it's something big.HellishFiend wrote...
You're skipping past the point though -which is whether or not the run is actually happening in reality - and making a case out of something that happens within the scene.
If Shepard were suddenly wearing a polka-dot dress during the run to the beam, would you use his possible reasons for wearing the dress as justification for taking the scene at face value? That's an extreme example, but the point stands. Just because Harby might have a legitimate reason to not shoot Normandy down in reality doesnt mean he wouldnt use those same circumstances to manipulate Shepard in the same way during an indoc hallucination.
Because from where I'm sitting, it looked as if you said that the run was a dream. I then gave a reason how, dream or not, Harbinger's actions could make sense.
Was it a dream or reality? I've no idea honestly, though I personally feel it was real, though only for reasons of preference. I'm completely open to the idea that it's still all a dream though.
And if what I'm saying now is contradictory to what I said before, do go ahead and show that. I'll just use a lame defence that it's jsut past midnight here and I really ought to call it a night.
Modifié par HellishFiend, 30 juin 2012 - 06:15 .
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