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[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

@Arkennys:
Very good post. Refusal has also become my favorite ending. That feeling that I got when I heard Shepard doing his last speech: It was beautiful..after all these month I finally got my Shepard back, Shepard who doesn't care about the odds, confident like I learned to love him.

Btw, this is basically the "Going Down In A Blaze Of Glory" ending that some found being mentioned in the executable files, a month or two ago. So was it all planned or not?

And that overexcessive use of auto-dialog fits very well within an indoctrination theme, as it represents the loss of control. Of course, it also serves Bioware well, as it reduces their work load. But the main thing is, it's consistent, if IT it is.

"Going down in the Blaze of Glory" on the graveyard of trillions. No, thanks!

Yes, but imagine how punishing this ending is designed to be. It contradicts and violates nearly everything you would expect from your typical fictional story of the Hero's Journey:
western moral principles, human values. And if that's not world view crushing enough: it let's you see Shepard as you know him from ME1 and ME2 and kicks you in the nuts by showing that this is not the way to achieve victory.

From an out-of-game perspective, of all the 'hints', this is the best one that hints that something's fishy here.

Well, yes, for IT this is probably the most sensible ending because Shepard rejects the whole indoctrination attempt. Liara's hologram says the war was lost because there are DLCs coming that will probably add allies and War Assets that could result in a different message after Reject (or IT will be revealed in Mass Effect 4 which would be the best solution in my opinion). I don't have to remind you of what the Catalyst says after you chose Reject. That phrase must have at least some deeper meaning in the context of what has happened in the last 3 months on BSN and throughout the real world.

Of course I hope that, should it come to that, the message won't just change, but will actually allow us to..well...fight Harbinger and the Reapers properly.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[insomniak9]

When Shep looks at her bloody hand, then Hackett comes over the radio again...

He says "Shepard, Commander"

Only Legion has ever called her Shepard Commander before.

[D.Sharrah]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting just so people have a chance to look at the videos...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Edit:  Here are some vids for comparison -

http://www.youtube.c...BWw99hG8#t=485s  -  Shep in ME 3

  -  Saren in ME 1 

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT? IMHO, yes.

[MaximizedAction]

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting just so people have a chance to look at the videos...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Edit:  Here are some vids for comparison -

http://www.youtube.c...BWw99hG8#t=485s  -  Shep in ME 3

  -  Saren in ME 1 

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT? IMHO, yes.

Yeah, that's a good take on this weird new scene in the EC that we got for otherwise no apparent reason. It being a revival attempt would fit.

But it makes me wonder: if this scene is in Shepard's mind, then why would he need revival? Or even, why the need to simulate it in a way similar to what Shepard and the player saw on Saren?

[TSA_383]

MaximizedAction wrote...

@Arkennys:
Very good post. Refusal has also become my favorite ending. That feeling that I got when I heard Shepard doing his last speech: It was beautiful..after all these month I finally got my Shepard back, Shepard who doesn't care about the odds, confident like I learned to love him.

Btw, this is basically the "Going Down In A Blaze Of Glory" ending that some found being mentioned in the executable files, a month or two ago. So was it all planned or not?

And that overexcessive use of auto-dialog fits very well within an indoctrination theme, as it represents the loss of control. Of course, it also serves Bioware well, as it reduces their work load. But the main thing is, it's consistent, if IT it is.

Just to clarify, that does still exist in EC:

(Screenshot of the endgame conditions in EC exe)

insomniak9 wrote...

When Shep looks at her bloody hand, then Hackett comes over the radio again...

He says "Shepard, Commander"

Only Legion has ever called her Shepard Commander before.

I picked up on that first time on and found it odd. But we know that you're at least partly being manipulated up to the crucible at this point anyway...

insomniak9 wrote...

2Gb of Slideshows and voiceover?

Puh-uh-leeeeze.

1.3GB of "slideshows" and other new FMVs, a few hundred megs of voiceovers

[MaximizedAction]

@TSA:
Thanks for the screenshot!
Of course it's still in the EC, as the EC doesn't replace the MassEffect3.exe.

I don't know if I'm wrong in interpreting Refuse with it, but it fits the definition of "Out in a Blaze of Glory" IMO better than the worst Destroy ending.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Saren was heavily augmented with Reaper tech so Sovereign could have controlled his body. Shepard as far as we know doesn't use Reaper tech.

Added some vids to my post....check them out.

I find the sound played when Shepard wakes up out of place. I posted about it above.

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT?  IMHO, yes.

Dunno, shaking is shaking after all. Consider how much energy it takes to revive Saren. You could argue that Saren was dead at the time so it took longer.

Modifié par paxxton, 30 juin 2012 - 04:40 .

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

@Arkennys:
Very good post. Refusal has also become my favorite ending. That feeling that I got when I heard Shepard doing his last speech: It was beautiful..after all these month I finally got my Shepard back, Shepard who doesn't care about the odds, confident like I learned to love him.

Btw, this is basically the "Going Down In A Blaze Of Glory" ending that some found being mentioned in the executable files, a month or two ago. So was it all planned or not?

And that overexcessive use of auto-dialog fits very well within an indoctrination theme, as it represents the loss of control. Of course, it also serves Bioware well, as it reduces their work load. But the main thing is, it's consistent, if IT it is.

"Going down in the Blaze of Glory" on the graveyard of trillions. No, thanks!

Yes, but imagine how punishing this ending is designed to be. It contradicts and violates nearly everything you would expect from your typical fictional story of the Hero's Journey:
western moral principles, human values. And if that's not world view crushing enough: it let's you see Shepard as you know him from ME1 and ME2 and kicks you in the nuts by showing that this is not the way to achieve victory.

From an out-of-game perspective, of all the 'hints', this is the best one that hints that something's fishy here.

Well, yes, for IT this is probably the most sensible ending because Shepard rejects the whole indoctrination attempt. Liara's hologram says the war was lost because there are DLCs coming that will probably add allies and War Assets that could result in a different message after Reject (or IT will be revealed in Mass Effect 4 which would be the best solution in my opinion). I don't have to remind you of what the Catalyst says after you chose Reject. That phrase must have at least some deeper meaning in the context of what has happened in the last 3 months on BSN and throughout the real world.

Of course I hope that, should it come to that, the message won't just change, but will actually allow us to..well...fight Harbinger and the Reapers properly.

Agreed. That's why I think the best way to accomodate for IT would be a new full game.

[paxxton]

Does anyone know how to make a random text a hyperlink?

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Saren was heavily augmented with Reaper tech so Sovereign could have controlled his body. Shepard as far as we know doesn't use Reaper tech.

Added some vids to my post....check them out.

I find the sound played when Shepard wakes up out of place. I posted about it above.

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT?  IMHO, yes.

Dunno, shaking is shaking after all. Consider how much energy it takes to revive Saren. You could argue that Saren was dead at the time so it took longer.

Out in a blaze of glory is most probably a leftover from ME2 when dying at the collector base. Though it could be left in for a purpose... but it's never set.

[D.Sharrah]

MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting just so people have a chance to look at the videos...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Edit:  Here are some vids for comparison -

http://www.youtube.c...BWw99hG8#t=485s  -  Shep in ME 3

  -  Saren in ME 1 

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT? IMHO, yes.

Yeah, that's a good take on this weird new scene in the EC that we got for otherwise no apparent reason. It being a revival attempt would fit.

But it makes me wonder: if this scene is in Shepard's mind, then why would he need revival? Or even, why the need to simulate it in a way similar to what Shepard and the player saw on Saren?

I think the main question you have to ask yourself with IT is, full on hallucination? - or - waking nightmare/partial hallucination?  I lean more towards the second...I still think that what see in the ending "happens", but it's Shep's visual interpertation of those events...I just have the feeling that if we could see what was really happening we would see Shep looking at a control panel w/three buttons...I just don't get how "shooting to destroy a part of it" is good way to enable the crucible to "fire" the "kill the reapers ray"...

[insomniak9]

TSA_383 wrote...

Just to clarify, that does still exist in EC:

(Screenshot of the endgame conditions in EC exe)

The alternatives to those conditions are "Not Finished" and "Lived to Fight Again" 

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

Does anyone know how to make a random text a hyperlink?

While BBCode active:
[url="my.url"]random text[/url]
random text

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 juin 2012 - 04:50 .

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Out in a blaze of glory is most probably a leftover from ME2 when dying at the collector base. Though it could be left in for a purpose... but it's never set.

Looking at TSA's screenshot, I can see that ME3 outcomes have a "EGO" as a prefix, "Livetofightagain" "notfinished" and "outinabazeofglory" has "EGS".

Hm, you might be right, but what is EGS? EndGameState? And EGO? EndGameOutcome?

Damn Bioware, Y U only write out some variables and filenames...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 30 juin 2012 - 04:53 .

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Does anyone know how to make a random text a hyperlink?

While BBCode active:
[url="my.url"]random text[/url]

Thanks.

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I was watching the low ems ec control ending this morning...and when the conduit spits Shep out on the Citadel and we hear the noise (accompanied by Shep's body violently shaking), it reminded me of Saren at the end of ME 1 when Sovereign revives him (not with the same force or anything). We know with that scene Saren was revived b/c Sovereign had work for him to do - could it be that Shep is reveived so that the indoctrination can continue?

Saren was heavily augmented with Reaper tech so Sovereign could have controlled his body. Shepard as far as we know doesn't use Reaper tech.

Added some vids to my post....check them out.

I find the sound played when Shepard wakes up out of place. I posted about it above.

The sound is one thing...but look at the visual similarities...now we know that Saren is definetly much further gone then Shep which explains just how much more violent his "revival" is...but given that they are similar, does it give strength to IT?  IMHO, yes.

Dunno, shaking is shaking after all. Consider how much energy it takes to revive Saren. You could argue that Saren was dead at the time so it took longer.

Which is what I am saying...Shep on the edge of consciouness does needs a lttle jolt to wake him up, where Saren needs a full on "revival"...I just get the feeling that they put this scene in for a reason.  And the scene with Saren is one of the only times I can think of something similar happening (could be wrong/forgeting something else) - and in that case indoctrination plays a huge role...

[MegumiAzusa]

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Out in a blaze of glory is most probably a leftover from ME2 when dying at the collector base. Though it could be left in for a purpose... but it's never set.

Looking at TSA's screenshot, I can see that ME3 outcomes have a "EGO" as a prefix, "Livetofightagain" "notfinished" and "outinabazeofglory" has "EGS".

LivedToFightAgain is used when completing ME3.
EGO meaning EndGameOption
EGS meaning EndGameState

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 juin 2012 - 04:54 .

[insomniak9]

The pyramids are returning O.o

[insomniak9]

I missed one, there EGS_MAX as well...

[MaximizedAction]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Out in a blaze of glory is most probably a leftover from ME2 when dying at the collector base. Though it could be left in for a purpose... but it's never set.

Looking at TSA's screenshot, I can see that ME3 outcomes have a "EGO" as a prefix, "Livetofightagain" "notfinished" and "outinabazeofglory" has "EGS".

LivedToFightAgain is used when completing ME3.
EGO meaning EndGameOption
EGS meaning EndGameState

Ah, I remember now. Thanks!

[D.Sharrah]

? for NG+...does it change any of the flags if your character was imported from ME 2? Or do the ME 2 choices carry over to the NG+?

[MegumiAzusa]

D.Sharrah wrote...

? for NG+...does it change any of the flags if your character was imported from ME 2? Or do the ME 2 choices carry over to the NG+?

Save game import values are copied.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 30 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...
Out in a blaze of glory is most probably a leftover from ME2 when dying at the collector base. Though it could be left in for a purpose... but it's never set.

Looking at TSA's screenshot, I can see that ME3 outcomes have a "EGO" as a prefix, "Livetofightagain" "notfinished" and "outinabazeofglory" has "EGS".

LivedToFightAgain is used when completing ME3.
EGO meaning EndGameOption
EGS meaning EndGameState

How do you know? I wasn't aware we could tell with these states whether they'd been activated...

MaximizedAction wrote...

@TSA:
Thanks for the screenshot!
Of course it's still in the EC, as the EC doesn't replace the MassEffect3.exe.

I
don't know if I'm wrong in interpreting Refuse with it, but it fits the
definition of "Out in a Blaze of Glory" IMO better than the worst
Destroy ending.

It does actually, but I don't have a copy of the old EXE to work out what they changed... The EGO/EGS conditions don't appear to have changed at all though.

[insomniak9]

So, what's EGS_MAX all about?

[Xcfkvh1]

Hello,

I will try to ask as better as I can my 2 questions and here because i am quite agree with the topic title : Shepard indoctrination.

On the end on just before the encounter with TIM and Admiral Anderson :

1 Why, when we go back to see the command panel we don't see Anderson while he were there before ?
2 Why we don't fall in the holes on the road between the shadow broker's electricty place ?

To illustrate because of my approximative english i took a screen : imageshack.us/f/403/tempme3.png/

Sorry for my english errors, and i am glad to see a speculation post on this game.