55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

A). Because it's metaphorical, in Control he is told he will lose his body, or more accurately, as an indoctrinated and controlled being, he will lose control of his body, 

Also, for the record, TIM's circutis resemble the inner workings of a reaper, which is also the same circuts used to cover the skin of the Synthesis hybrids

But again, why just the husk eyes and not the skin or anything else before he's absorbed? And what about Synthesis? Synthesis seems out of place since they both lead to the same destination of Shepard being indoctrinated. But like control, there's no husk skin, circuit boards, tubing or any other reaper feature. Just the eyes turn blue like TIM.

TIM has been in the habbit of reverse engineering reaper tech. That doesn't surprise me. It also doesn't surprise me to see them on Shepard, since TIM was responsible for his reconstruction.

For the record, the Catalyst says that Shepard will die, loose everything he has. As for the Husk skin, the energy of the Crucible is so high that his skin is burnt instantaneously so you don't get to see the circuitry. Btw, it looks gruesome in Control.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 05:41 .

[RaidShock]

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

[EpyonX3]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What do the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

Yes. And if Bioware confirms IT, they think Bioware ripped off the fan's theory.

Yeah kinda a lose lose situation when you think about it.

I'm thinking anyone who pulls a "You stole that from the fans!" is probably someone who is currently Anti-IT, so they wouldn't have much business trying to defend any Theorist. Besides, if it's epic enough the "hard to please" fans might let the "theory stealing" slide.

I don't care what they do either way. I just want it done right. if they go with IT, they better fill in the gaps that IT opens up. If they keep it the same, then close the many gaps that are open now.

Honestly though, I'm still holding on to the theory that they're merely going to add back deleted scenes and they're bringing back the VA's they didn't bother recording because the scene was cut by then.

There's one deleted scene that shows garrus and liara getting hit by harbinger. They took that out and just placed the bodies in front of you. The audio files of Shepard telling them to run, however, is still on the disk.

If they really go to all this time and effort just to add back in deleted scenes, I think that will just ****** people off even more than they are right now.  Like you, I don't really care if IT is true or not, as long as we get a satisfying ending.  I just don't see how a few deleted scenes could provide that.

From what I understand, EC is just that, a few cinematic scenes that explain the plot holes.

Look at examples of Extended Cut media in movies:

"A related concept to the "Director's Cut" is that of an extended or special edition. An example is Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings
trilogy. While Jackson considers the theatrical releases of those three
films to be a final "director's cut" within the constraints of
theatrical exhibition, the extended cuts were produced so that fans of
the material could see nearly all of the scenes shot for the script to
develop more of J. R. R. Tolkien's
world, but which were originally cut for running time, or other
reasons. New music and special effects were also added to the cuts.
Opinion remains divided on which cut is superior; Peter Jackson and his
writing partners, the main cast and WETA as a whole, regard the Extended
Edition as the superior cut, while detractors[who?] believe such scenes were left out for a reason. Another example is Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse Now Redux, which, like the original film, polarized the audience, with some fans[who?] considering the original version to be the definitive cut."

Pairing this with the files that were found on disc, the thessia and tuchunka textures found in the final level and the leak a month ago that was quickly dismissed by Bioware, (I mean really quick! Within an hour!) that says they'll be making scenes showing the effects of your decisions on those planets and Palaven has me convinced.

[RaidShock]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Pairing this with the files that were found on disc, the thessia and tuchunka textures found in the final level and the leak a month ago that was quickly dismissed by Bioware, (I mean really quick! Within an hour!) that says they'll be making scenes showing the effects of your decisions on those planets and Palaven has me convinced.

Gamble's comments at PAX also lead me to believe it is something along these lines.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

RaidShock wrote...

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

[elegolas1]

why are the anti-IT trolls so aggressive at the moment? nowhere is safe on this forum!

also is there a site where all the discussion from the thread is compiled and organised? there are youtube videos and such but the nitty gritty stuff is hard to follow. maybe i should start checking in more...

[Ownaholic]

So...Any new pieces of evidence that I need to know about for the follow-up Documentary?

[JasonSic]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

As did I.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

An addition to my last post:

Shepard: triangle dots pointing downward


The Illusive Man: triangle dots pointing upward:

[paxxton]

Ownaholic wrote...

So...Any new pieces of evidence that I need to know about for the follow-up Documentary?

Planet Aequitas. And a song London Calling.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 05:59 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

elegolas1 wrote...

why are the anti-IT trolls so aggressive at the moment? nowhere is safe on this forum!

also is there a site where all the discussion from the thread is compiled and organised? there are youtube videos and such but the nitty gritty stuff is hard to follow. maybe i should start checking in more...

The first posts has some good links to organized info, some of them out of date some of them not.

[RaidShock]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

Good point, renegade Shepard's eyes are indeed the opposite pattern of ending Shepard control/synthesis eyes. They still don't necessarily indicate indoctrination, in my opinion. Could just be used to show Shepard becoming "one with the machines" or something along those lines. Isn't the control ending labeled "BecomeAReaper" in the game files? I mean, if you take a literalist standpoint, then naturally Shepard's eyes would become Reapery if he was becoming one.

[EpyonX3]

JasonSic wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

As did I.

Being inverted does make them dissimilar, but if they're there in Renegade Shepard's head, they should be in Paragon Shepard's too. We don't know the nature of these devices, they could ver well rearrange themselves, like renegade is inverted and paragon is like TIM's.


EDIT: And bieng that Control is the Paragon choice, it converts your grumpy old renegade shep to paragon shep at the last minute.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 21 mai 2012 - 05:59 .

[Big Bad]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What do the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

Yes. And if Bioware confirms IT, they think Bioware ripped off the fan's theory.

Yeah kinda a lose lose situation when you think about it.

I'm thinking anyone who pulls a "You stole that from the fans!" is probably someone who is currently Anti-IT, so they wouldn't have much business trying to defend any Theorist. Besides, if it's epic enough the "hard to please" fans might let the "theory stealing" slide.

I don't care what they do either way. I just want it done right. if they go with IT, they better fill in the gaps that IT opens up. If they keep it the same, then close the many gaps that are open now.

Honestly though, I'm still holding on to the theory that they're merely going to add back deleted scenes and they're bringing back the VA's they didn't bother recording because the scene was cut by then.

There's one deleted scene that shows garrus and liara getting hit by harbinger. They took that out and just placed the bodies in front of you. The audio files of Shepard telling them to run, however, is still on the disk.

If they really go to all this time and effort just to add back in deleted scenes, I think that will just ****** people off even more than they are right now.  Like you, I don't really care if IT is true or not, as long as we get a satisfying ending.  I just don't see how a few deleted scenes could provide that.

From what I understand, EC is just that, a few cinematic scenes that explain the plot holes.

Look at examples of Extended Cut media in movies:

"A related concept to the "Director's Cut" is that of an extended or special edition. An example is Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings
trilogy. While Jackson considers the theatrical releases of those three
films to be a final "director's cut" within the constraints of
theatrical exhibition, the extended cuts were produced so that fans of
the material could see nearly all of the scenes shot for the script to
develop more of J. R. R. Tolkien's
world, but which were originally cut for running time, or other
reasons. New music and special effects were also added to the cuts.
Opinion remains divided on which cut is superior; Peter Jackson and his
writing partners, the main cast and WETA as a whole, regard the Extended
Edition as the superior cut, while detractors[who?] believe such scenes were left out for a reason. Another example is Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse Now Redux, which, like the original film, polarized the audience, with some fans[who?] considering the original version to be the definitive cut."

Pairing this with the files that were found on disc, the thessia and tuchunka textures found in the final level and the leak a month ago that was quickly dismissed by Bioware, (I mean really quick! Within an hour!) that says they'll be making scenes showing the effects of your decisions on those planets and Palaven has me convinced.

Granted, you may be right, but I still think that most people who hate the current endings would still be deeply unsatisfied by this.

Also, I know you think that the breath scene is just an easter egg, but i just don't buy it. Why would they end Shepard's story on what is effectively a cliffhanger? If there is no content that occurs after the breath scene, then the whole EC exercise just seems rather pointless to me
But who knows? I am very much convinced that the ending feels so wrong because it was intended to be that way. I just wish I knew how long we are going to have to wait to get resolution to all of this.

[paxxton]

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

paxxton wrote...

What do the anti-IT people propose instead of IT? Just that BioWare failed everyone?

Yes. And if Bioware confirms IT, they think Bioware ripped off the fan's theory.

Yeah kinda a lose lose situation when you think about it.

I'm thinking anyone who pulls a "You stole that from the fans!" is probably someone who is currently Anti-IT, so they wouldn't have much business trying to defend any Theorist. Besides, if it's epic enough the "hard to please" fans might let the "theory stealing" slide.

I don't care what they do either way. I just want it done right. if they go with IT, they better fill in the gaps that IT opens up. If they keep it the same, then close the many gaps that are open now.

Honestly though, I'm still holding on to the theory that they're merely going to add back deleted scenes and they're bringing back the VA's they didn't bother recording because the scene was cut by then.

There's one deleted scene that shows garrus and liara getting hit by harbinger. They took that out and just placed the bodies in front of you. The audio files of Shepard telling them to run, however, is still on the disk.

If they really go to all this time and effort just to add back in deleted scenes, I think that will just ****** people off even more than they are right now.  Like you, I don't really care if IT is true or not, as long as we get a satisfying ending.  I just don't see how a few deleted scenes could provide that.

From what I understand, EC is just that, a few cinematic scenes that explain the plot holes.

Look at examples of Extended Cut media in movies:

"A related concept to the "Director's Cut" is that of an extended or special edition. An example is Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings
trilogy. While Jackson considers the theatrical releases of those three
films to be a final "director's cut" within the constraints of
theatrical exhibition, the extended cuts were produced so that fans of
the material could see nearly all of the scenes shot for the script to
develop more of J. R. R. Tolkien's
world, but which were originally cut for running time, or other
reasons. New music and special effects were also added to the cuts.
Opinion remains divided on which cut is superior; Peter Jackson and his
writing partners, the main cast and WETA as a whole, regard the Extended
Edition as the superior cut, while detractors[who?] believe such scenes were left out for a reason. Another example is Francis Ford Coppola's Apocalypse Now Redux, which, like the original film, polarized the audience, with some fans[who?] considering the original version to be the definitive cut."

Pairing this with the files that were found on disc, the thessia and tuchunka textures found in the final level and the leak a month ago that was quickly dismissed by Bioware, (I mean really quick! Within an hour!) that says they'll be making scenes showing the effects of your decisions on those planets and Palaven has me convinced.

Granted, you may be right, but I still think that most people who hate the current endings would still be deeply unsatisfied by this.

Also, I know you think that the breath scene is just an easter egg, but i just don't buy it. Why would they end Shepard's story on what is effectively a cliffhanger? If there is no content that occurs after the breath scene, then the whole EC exercise just seems rather pointless to me
But who knows? I am very much convinced that the ending feels so wrong because it was intended to be that way. I just wish I knew how long we are going to have to wait to get resolution to all of this.

LOL. I didn't know my question would start such a fevered discussion.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 06:05 .

[Arian Dynas]

Ownaholic wrote...

So...Any new pieces of evidence that I need to know about for the follow-up Documentary?

How much time you got? I've got a list.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

EpyonX3 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

As did I.

Being inverted does make them dissimilar, but if they're there in Renegade Shepard's head, they should be in Paragon Shepard's too. We don't know the nature of these devices, they could ver well rearrange themselves, like renegade is inverted and paragon is like TIM's.


EDIT: And bieng that Control is the Paragon choice, it converts your grumpy old renegade shep to paragon shep at the last minute.

If that was the case, The Illusive Man's eyes would have turned red to match the Renegade "whatever the cost" ruthless mentallity wouldn't it? The story behind Shepard's renegade scars is that they're his/her Lazarus Project scarring deepening as after effects to his/her mentallity, the reason they glow I assume is because they are Shepard's cybernetics showing through the skin. They heal up as a paragon (a positive mental attitude helps according to Dr. Chakwas), but you can still see they're red when you first wake up in ME2. So, I believe regardless of Paragon/Renegade Shepard maintains red cybernetics and the same formation of eyes, otherwise Bioware might've given Paragons blue cybernetic eyes in opposite formation.

I won't get into Control being a Paragon choice, as it I don't feel like argueing. I'll just say it doesn't sit well with me along the lines of past Paragon choices.

[EpyonX3]

Big Bad wrote...



Granted, you may be right, but I still think that most people who hate the current endings would still be deeply unsatisfied by this.

Also, I know you think that the breath scene is just an easter egg, but i just don't buy it. Why would they end Shepard's story on what is effectively a cliffhanger? If there is no content that occurs after the breath scene, then the whole EC exercise just seems rather pointless to me
But who knows? I am very much convinced that the ending feels so wrong because it was intended to be that way. I just wish I knew how long we are going to have to wait to get resolution to all of this.

I agree. I wasn't too happy with the endings but I didn't really give it too much thought. It would still be nice for some explanations and elaboration.

I remember saying it was an easter egg but I corrected myself afterwards. I wouldn't really say it's an easter egg anymore. If the reapers are all dead, however, there's not much else for Shepard to do if he's alive, besides recover and tell his story.

[XxDarkTimexX]

I think there is one piece of evidence that leads to some of the normandy's crew members affected to indoctrination, and the piece is the reaper IFF which the normandy's crew which spent time on the ship or anyone else who was in the normandy from the end of mass effect 2 and all of mass effect 3. What i'm trying to say is when James says that he hears a mumming sound on the normandy he is starting to be indoctrinated by the reaper IFF. I know what people are going to say only Shepard is being indoctrinated, but no shepard is not the only one person being in indoctrinated he or she has spent time on or near reaper artifacts more than all the others and thats all i have to say on the matter.

Modifié par XxDarkTimexX, 21 mai 2012 - 06:12 .

[RaidShock]

XxDarkTimexX wrote...

I think there is one piece of evidence that leads to some of the normandy's crew members affected to indoctrination, and the piece is the reaper IFF which the normandy's crew which spent time on the ship or anyone else who was in the normandy from the end of mass effect 2 and all of mass effect 3. What i'm trying to say is when James says that he hears a mumming sound on the normandy he is starting to be indoctrinated by the reaper IFF. I know what people are going to say only Shepard is being indoctrinated, but no shepard is not the only one person being in indoctrinated he or she has spent time on or near reaper artifacts more than all the others and thats all i have to say on the matter.

The thing is, the Reaper IFF would have to emit its indoctrination signal via the Normandy's systems, which EDI would be able to detect easily, just as she detects all other abnormal signals.

[paxxton]

RaidShock wrote...

XxDarkTimexX wrote...

I think there is one piece of evidence that leads to some of the normandy's crew members affected to indoctrination, and the piece is the reaper IFF which the normandy's crew which spent time on the ship or anyone else who was in the normandy from the end of mass effect 2 and all of mass effect 3. What i'm trying to say is when James says that he hears a mumming sound on the normandy he is starting to be indoctrinated by the reaper IFF. I know what people are going to say only Shepard is being indoctrinated, but no shepard is not the only one person being in indoctrinated he or she has spent time on or near reaper artifacts more than all the others and thats all i have to say on the matter.

The thing is, the Reaper IFF would have to emit its indoctrination signal via the Normandy's systems, which EDI would be able to detect easily, just as she detects all other abnormal signals.

Wasn't the Reaper IFF uninstalled during the retrofit?

[RaidShock]

paxxton wrote...
Wasn't the Reaper IFF uninstalled during the retrofit?

I assume so. Even if it wasn't, I don't see how it could be plausibly applied to IT.

[prettz]

EpyonX3 wrote...



I've always found that curious about the ending. The Pro-IT in me says that this is evidence that Shepard has been indoctrinated and has turned into a husk.

The anti-IT in me says Shepard turning into a husk would be a possible side effect of controlling the reapers or synthesizing the galaxy.

My bigger question is why does his skin burn off and his body vanish right after? If he was turned to a husk, then his body should have remained.

Also, his eyes are the only things that are somewhat relatable to indcotrination. His skin does not appear to be the same as the standard pale skinned husk. It also looks nothing like TIM who's skin was made of circuitboard like material. 

Let's also not forget that the reaper cable pattern is not unique in the ME  universe. It's used by Geth and humans so it's not impossible that Shepard's eyes are implants of the same type that TIM uses. Yes I'm aware of the Renegade Shep eyes being a different pattern but this is a game where your gun changes in your hand in a split second.

a lot of the time with the geth I think they are Reaper cables, also it's not just the eyes of Shepard. you can see Reaper like cables in the cheeks as well, take a look

Modifié par prettz, 21 mai 2012 - 06:23 .

[EpyonX3]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

My non-IT interpretation of the eyes:

If you don't fix Shepard's scarring, renegade Shepard has the exact same synthetic eyes throughout ME2 and ME3, it's just that they're red. You could make the argument that Shepard has some form of eye implants from when he was rebuilt by Cerberus, but they are not apparent unless you are renegade. In control and synthesis, Shepard's flesh "dissolves." My interpretation was that his organic parts dissolved quicker than his synthetic parts, thus you see the underlying eye implants as his flesh burns away in synthesis/control.

I originally tried to rationalize it that way as well BUT, take note that Shepard's cybernetic eyes are in the opposite formation of TIMs. One is three dots triangular formation pointing up, the other is pointing down. Debunked myself shortly after thinking this in the old IT thread.

As did I.

Being inverted does make them dissimilar, but if they're there in Renegade Shepard's head, they should be in Paragon Shepard's too. We don't know the nature of these devices, they could ver well rearrange themselves, like renegade is inverted and paragon is like TIM's.


EDIT: And bieng that Control is the Paragon choice, it converts your grumpy old renegade shep to paragon shep at the last minute.

If that was the case, The Illusive Man's eyes would have turned red to match the Renegade "whatever the cost" ruthless mentallity wouldn't it? The story behind Shepard's renegade scars is that they're his/her Lazarus Project scarring deepening as after effects to his/her mentallity, the reason they glow I assume is because they are Shepard's cybernetics showing through the skin. They heal up as a paragon (a positive mental attitude helps according to Dr. Chakwas), but you can still see they're red when you first wake up in ME2. So, I believe regardless of Paragon/Renegade Shepard maintains red cybernetics and the same formation of eyes, otherwise Bioware might've given Paragons blue cybernetic eyes in opposite formation.

I won't get into Control being a Paragon choice, as it I don't feel like argueing. I'll just say it doesn't sit well with me along the lines of past Paragon choices.

Shepard says this while remaining paragon a few times in the series. Also, TIM doesn't have the same adverse effects to the Lazarus project so his moral chocies wouldn't effect his physiology either way.

Also, my explanation assumes that the crucible changes his physiology. I see the choices as follows, Control is Paragon, Destroy is Renegade and Synthesis is a blend of both, which would explain Shepards eyes in Synthesis.

I understand that you don't want to get into the moralistic values of the choices. But here's why I think Control is paragon.

As much as we would hate to admit it. The galaxy is almost 100% reliant on reaper tech. Economies, health, travel and technological progress are now based on reaper tech. Destroy all of that and we basically start from scratch, or were we left off 100 or more years ago. Imagine taking today's technology and getting rid of it instantly. Not all technology, but just the ones created in the last 100 years. It would suck on all fronts.

Control helps with that because all reaper and reaper based tech is spared or salvagable. The war ends, the citadel is saved, the reapers are still alive and can repair and assist in rebuilding lost worlds and technology and no more lives are lost on either side.

Destroy ignores all of this and satisfies one goal. And that's to take out the reapers no matter what the cost. Whether it's technology, relays or even earth itself. That's more in line with a renegade shepard to me.

[DirtyPhoenix]

I saw a supposed leak some pages ago.. posted by TSA maybe. Has that been denied yet?