Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!
#35951
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:05
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
#35952
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:08
XanderLav wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Here you go:paxxton wrote...
LOL. I want to hear that!BansheeOwnage wrote...
Guys! I altered the pitch on the Rannoch destroyer. I can't make much out, there is too much reaper effect, It kind of made me think it sounded like a woman. I kept listening to it and the way it says Shepard at the beginning sounds like...
Liara
I'm probably hearing what I want to but w/e. I was too lazy to not change Shepard's voice. He's funnier now anyway.
Reaper Sounds like Garrus to me. I was so suprised when he sad SHepard I was sure it Garrus with tweaks in his voice only later I realised that it's a reaper
It sounds like Kolyat Krios
#35953
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:09
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
With all the earlier discussions on whether or not Harbinger is the oldest of the reapers, it makes me wonder if that question will be answered. Maybe we will find out that Leviathan was the first.
#35954
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:11
Xavendithas wrote...
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
With all the earlier discussions on whether or not Harbinger is the oldest of the reapers, it makes me wonder if that question will be answered. Maybe we will find out that Leviathan was the first.
Someone on the forums said Bioware confirmed that Harbinger is the oldest via twitter. But I haven't seen the twitter post myself.
#35955
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:12
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Lovecraftian have you guys ever heard of that? The Reapers and Ridley Scott's Aliens are based around that.
Screw Leviathan I would destroy him to THE REAPERS ARE PURE EVIL IN A PHYSICAL FORM.
The Quarians created the Geth so the Geth have a chance a redemption the idea that the reapers were "created" is crap I would like to believe they were eternal "like soverign states" and that their very existence is and forever will be a mystery. All that is clear is that we need to destroy them before they destroy us like anderson says. period.
Again this point holds true if you believe the reapers have no definitive beginning and are just evil, the geth on the other hand are not a mystery we know who created them and why they rebelled, the quarians posed a threat because they wanted to destory them everyone else posed a threat only after the reapers corrupted them, the reapers were using them just like Saren and TIM. The Reapers and Ridley Scott's Alien were not being controlled they wanted everything and everyone to die.
That starchild catalyst crap is a bunch of bologne, The Geth could be turned free from their evil thoughts the Reapers and Ridley Scott's Alien can not and will not.
The Aliens I am sure just do what they are doing to populate and ensure their survival, nothing pass a mere animal instinct to survive.
The Reapers only wanna make you think they are the beginning and the end because they been doing this crap to the galaxy since who knows when. Its called they are trying to demorale you and make you loss all hope to ensure their victory over you.
#35956
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:13
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think you may have given liara a few more than are legit, and I think the end one with (????) sounds like a joker line...
Regardless though, it's a VERY interesting development, and although we **** I know damn well I'll be logging into origin credit card at the ready when it comes out
#35957
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:14
JasonSic wrote...
Someone on the forums said Bioware confirmed that Harbinger is the oldest via twitter. But I haven't seen the twitter post myself.
I wasn't aware of that. Too bad, that could provide an interesting twist to the rogue reaper story line.
#35958
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:14
I listened to it in headphones. I think the Reaper voice is actually two voices. 1 bassy and loud and the second higher.XanderLav wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Here you go:paxxton wrote...
LOL. I want to hear that!BansheeOwnage wrote...
Guys! I altered the pitch on the Rannoch destroyer. I can't make much out, there is too much reaper effect, It kind of made me think it sounded like a woman. I kept listening to it and the way it says Shepard at the beginning sounds like...
Liara
I'm probably hearing what I want to but w/e. I was too lazy to not change Shepard's voice. He's funnier now anyway.
Reaper Sounds like Garrus to me. I was so suprised when he sad SHepard I was sure it Garrus with tweaks in his voice only later I realised that it's a reaper
#35959
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:15
Doesn't mean he's the original Reaper.
#35960
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:15
TSA_383 wrote...
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think you may have given liara a few more than are legit, and I think the end one with (????) sounds like a joker line...
Regardless though, it's a VERY interesting development, and although we **** I know damn well I'll be logging into origin credit card at the ready when it comes out
I got a Bioware points card as a birthday present a few months ago.
My card will be ready!
#35961
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:16
Again.......
Control = TIM's Goal
Synthesis = Saren's Goal
Destroy not Understand = Shepard and The Galaxy's Goal
You can create as many threads and agruments and logical thought out conclusion all you want, blah blah blah catalyst said blah blah the catalyst idea was stupid both times and everytime.
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
#35962
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:17
paxxton wrote...
I listened to it in headphones. I think the Reaper voice is actually two voices. 1 bassy and loud and the second higher.XanderLav wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Here you go:paxxton wrote...
LOL. I want to hear that!BansheeOwnage wrote...
Guys! I altered the pitch on the Rannoch destroyer. I can't make much out, there is too much reaper effect, It kind of made me think it sounded like a woman. I kept listening to it and the way it says Shepard at the beginning sounds like...
Liara
I'm probably hearing what I want to but w/e. I was too lazy to not change Shepard's voice. He's funnier now anyway.
Reaper Sounds like Garrus to me. I was so suprised when he sad SHepard I was sure it Garrus with tweaks in his voice only later I realised that it's a reaper
You might be right there might be to voices although its very tough to separate them. But I checked this video again the way he says Shepard has Garrus all over it.
#35963
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:18
XanderLav wrote...
paxxton wrote...
I listened to it in headphones. I think the Reaper voice is actually two voices. 1 bassy and loud and the second higher.XanderLav wrote...
BansheeOwnage wrote...
Here you go:paxxton wrote...
LOL. I want to hear that!BansheeOwnage wrote...
Guys! I altered the pitch on the Rannoch destroyer. I can't make much out, there is too much reaper effect, It kind of made me think it sounded like a woman. I kept listening to it and the way it says Shepard at the beginning sounds like...
Liara
I'm probably hearing what I want to but w/e. I was too lazy to not change Shepard's voice. He's funnier now anyway.
Reaper Sounds like Garrus to me. I was so suprised when he sad SHepard I was sure it Garrus with tweaks in his voice only later I realised that it's a reaper
You might be right there might be to voices although its very tough to separate them. But I checked this video again the way he says Shepard has Garrus all over it.
Ok, I can say that I, too, thought that!
#35964
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:18
I swear to god, when I hear Harbinger speaking before the beam it sounds like he's saying:
"AUTOBOTSSSSSS"
#35965
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:19
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
#35966
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:20
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
Anderson is not a politician he is a good leader but I dont see him as a councelor his days were numbered. And this switcharoo that happened completely fits with personalitys of Udina and Anderson.
#35967
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:20
TSA_383 wrote...
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think you may have given liara a few more than are legit, and I think the end one with (????) sounds like a joker line...
Regardless though, it's a VERY interesting development, and although we **** I know damn well I'll be logging into origin credit card at the ready when it comes out
Bolded = I thought that as I was going through...probably my bias since she is my canon LI...I did think that there was quite a few lines that could have been used from any of the possible LI's.
As to buying the DLC...my interest is piqued. And since I am a ME addict, I know that I will not be able to resist.
#35968
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:22
JasonSic wrote...
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
It's only let me do that on save files that I cut off before the credits. Any game I've imported from the auto-save at the end of the credits has locked in my choice for the comic.
#35969
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:23
JasonSic wrote...
Xavendithas wrote...
D.Sharrah wrote...
To all that replied about the DLC dialogue...I want to re-emphasize that this is my best guess as to who the lines could be contributed to...I think that I did a pretty good job...but (?) = unsure, meaning that they may not all be right (if any).
But what I think that we can surmise is that this is a multiple stage/level DLC - where we get pre and post mission dialogue from the crew - that is affected by who Shep's LI is and who goes on the mission.
All in all, some pretty interesting stuff. Implications for everything from the birth/creation of the Reapers, to indoctrination, to controlling a Reaper w/"AI shackles", to possible ramifications to the ending...and I have a feeling that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
With all the earlier discussions on whether or not Harbinger is the oldest of the reapers, it makes me wonder if that question will be answered. Maybe we will find out that Leviathan was the first.
Someone on the forums said Bioware confirmed that Harbinger is the oldest via twitter. But I haven't seen the twitter post myself.
Posted awhile ago if I wondered that Harbinger and Leviathan were 1a and 1b...created at the same time essentially...Leviathan representing the more organic nature of the Reapers...Harbinger the more synthetic variation. Future models stuck with the synthetic variation due to Leviathan being able to go "rogue"...
#35970
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:24
JasonSic wrote...
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
I thought Genesis was for new playthroughs only (as in no import)?
#35971
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:27
D.Sharrah wrote...
JasonSic wrote...
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
I thought Genesis was for new playthroughs only (as in no import)?
If you import, it still plays the Genesis, but you don't get to choose anything. It's just like a little "Previously on Mass Effect..." thingy.
#35972
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:27
D.Sharrah wrote...
WARNING: Huge wall of text incoming...
Alright so here is the DLC info pared down to just the dialogue and my best guess as to who is the speaker:
Liara: My sources told me the production numbers were wrong at that mining facility.
Liara: I assumed they were just smuggling red sand. I never took the time to look closer.
Liara: Too much intel, too many places for secrets to hide. I'm going to have to start sleeping less.
Liara: What is it with you and rescuing scientists from dig sites that have been overrun by hostile forces?
Liara: If you decide to help her take down the Shadow Broker, I'm going to be jealous. And somewhat concerned.
Liara: Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
Liara: I'm glad you made it back... and I'd appreciate it if you avoided talking to Leviathan any further.
Liara: I don't want any tentacled creature inside your mind... except me.
Liara: I can only imagine talking to something so huge, so... alien. I hope it helps against the Reapers.
Liara: That mining facility... everyone there under Leviathan's control. It reminded me of Feros.
Liara: That mining facility... all those people, indoctrinated, losing ten years. I can't even imagine what that's like.
Liara: many other people out there are trapped like that? We need to find Leviathan.
Liara: I'm glad Ann Bryson got out safely. I just hope we find Leviathan before the Reapers do.
Liara: I thought I'd lost you down there.
Liara: Don't do that again, not even to forge an alliance with a damned Reaper-killer.
Liara: You're worth more than that.
Liara: So we have Leviathan. I hope it stays on our side.
Edi: Leviathan's mental restraints are odd. My AI shackles served similar purposes, but why add sensations of darkness or cold?
Edi: I have formulated a psych profile for Dr. Ann Bryson. She is not used to death, but she may be quite capable under stress.
Edi: So the Reapers did not fully exterminate their creators. That suggests they are fallible, even on large or long-term scales.
Joker(?): Watching you break the news to Ann about her dad... I gotta say, that was rough.
Liara: I heard you had to break the news to Ann about her dad. I'm sorry, Shepard.
Traynor: It's so brutal what happened to him. I can't imagine what she's going through.
Garrus: You took a huge risk down there. Almost died to figure this out.
Garrus: I've been thinking about what we learned, Shepard. The thing is, I don't really care what the Reapers are or where they're from.
Garrus: They're monsters that need to be put down. That's all I need to know.
Tali(?): I can't believe what I saw down there.
Tali(?): This Leviathan thing can just kick you out of your own head?
Tali(?): I don't know what's worse: killing people outright, or making them suffer like that.
James: Strange stuff back on that asteroid. We've seen indoctrination before, but ten years? Leviathan had its own private army.
James: You've got to wonder how much longer that would have lasted if we hadn't come along.
James: Just when I thought we were getting a handle on Reapers, this happens. Maybe Leviathan's more than a bull's-eye?
Kaidan: Shepard. I admit I was worried about you on that dig site. Things got pretty hectic. Not used to feeling like that, you know.
Kaidan: That's what love does. Turns a guy like me into a nervous wreck with something to lose and the aim to make sure he doesn't. Nobody better hurt you, is all I'm saying.
Kaidan: I can handle the Reapers that run around, or the ones that crawl, or the ones that... shuffle menacingly toward you. But it's the flying ones that give me the creeps.
Ashley: Shepard, I looked over your mission report. Gotta say, it feels like we've been after these Reapers forever...
Ashley: From Sovereign to Leviathan... they've been a pain in the ass the whole time. But at least we're starting to see the big picture.
Ashley: Never really thought we'd get any answers. It doesn't change much, but it does make this war feel a whole lot bigger.
Javik: I saw many strange things in our war against the Reapers. An entire settlement of Densorin were once studying things far beyond their knowledge.
Javik: Celestial mechanics, morphological simulations of galactic language... things even we didn't understand. At the time, I thought they were crazy.
Javik: But now, after what occurred on that asteroid, I wonder.
Javik: If Leviathan is a defector--a Reaper that broke away from the others--then it is also a traitor.
Javik: And traitors are never to be trusted, even among the enemy.
Javik: If they can betray their own kind, imagine what they can do to you.
Javik: I have studied your human religions, Commander--your "Devil" and his fall. Leviathan and its kind deserve the same fate.
Javik: They once unleashed a plague that has haunted all of our history to this day.</data>
Javik: I say their own hell is the abyss you found them in... one I hope they never escape from.
Cortez(?): The mining colony was completely brainwashed, and the Reapers retreat the moment the artifact is destroyed?
Cortez(?): I don't know what's going on, but I know I don't like it.
Cortez(?): Promise me you'll be careful, okay?
Cortez: If another Harvester keeps me from dropping you off in the target LZ, so help me...
James: Esteban, don't let those oversized roaches push you around.
Cortez: Mr. Vega, taking on a sky full of worm-necks in a troop transport is like sending you against the Earth invasion armed with brass knuckles.
James: What? You don't think I could do it?
Cortez: Can't say I was happy sending you down in that submersible by yourself.
Cortez: Wish I could have been with you, but if we were together in that tight space... never mind.
James: Don't know why I ever worry about you. Take on ancient aliens from the deep? Sure, no problem.
James: That asteroid facility was messed up.
James: Ten years of your life, just gone. You're working out there, sending letters to your family back home...
James: Then you wake up, and your hair's gone, your kid's in college, and your six-pack has turned into a keg. Just messed up.
James: I don't know the scientific measurement of a ****-load, but that seemed like a ****-load of harvesters.
James: With the Leviathan on our side, maybe we pull this thing off after all.
James: Too bad Ann never got to see her dad's work pay off.
James: At least Ann's still around to see her dad's work finally pay off.
Shepard(?): Maybe, James.
James: Hey, Commander.
SNIP…(Random conversation enders from the crew)
James(?): Have you ever seen anything like that, Shepard?
Traynor(?): It feels good to help those people get their lives back. Ten years is a lot of lost time.
Joker(?): Let's make sure that we never let time just slip by us, okay?
Joker(?): Hey, Shepard.
James(?): So a Reaper goes rogue and kills one of its own. That's what we're looking at here, right?
James: Bryson really was onto something big. Amazing.
James: A lot of smart people in this galaxy. I'm a lucky guy to work with so many of 'em.
James: Hey, Shepard.
Generic LI(?): You scare the hell out of me with those risky stunts, Shepard, but I guess it's also part of what I love about you.
(????): Nice to have everyone back on dry land, so to speak.
Kaidan: You know, whenever we discover something amazing like that, I wonder what else might be out there... or even right under our noses.
#35973
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:28
1. After reading "SHAVE us" in a youtube comment I will never be able to hear anything else again at this point
2. And something serious, don't know if it has been brought up already...
As you can play the game in different languages I switched to German(my first language) to hear what it would be in German. But as i suspected: No change, the same *shave us* sound.
This makes me believe that it actually just an alien-reaperish soundeffect, which is not supposed to mean anything in English.
Because there is just nothing they did not translate in the german version, despite some proper names like "reaper". Even "Harbinger", "TiM" and "the Crucible" became "Vorbote", "Tiegel" and "der Unbekannte" in german, which makes me play the English version in the first place. ^^
So yeah, if "shave us" was supposed to mean something, I think they would have translated it. =/
At least consider the (very propable) possibilty that we hear something, which is actually nothing.
Why this specific sound and not just a growl or an actual line from harby remains weird. I still want my Harbinger Final Boss Battle. :<
#35974
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:28
JasonSic wrote...
D.Sharrah wrote...
JasonSic wrote...
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
I thought Genesis was for new playthroughs only (as in no import)?
If you import, it still plays the Genesis, but you don't get to choose anything. It's just like a little "Previously on Mass Effect..." thingy.
Don't think that I ever noticed that...
#35975
Posté 30 juin 2012 - 10:29
JasonSic wrote...
chidingewe8036 wrote...
Destroy = Canon Ending..........just get ready for Mass Effect 4: Shepard's Return or whatever it is inevitable lol. (Look what they did to the Anderson or Udina choice in ME1)
That reminds me...
Has anyone noticed that in the Genesis comic intro for ME2, you always have the choice to pick who is the new councilor, even if you imported from ME1? I've always wondered about that.
The ME1 end game save file is created before you make that choice, there's no way for the game to tell who you picked.




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