55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

DJBare wrote...
Remember how the queen sounded in ME3? that's obviously because she was using those krogans to communicate, but you have to admit it was hard to get passed she sounded an even bigger threat because of it, we have the obvious perception that reapers are basically the ultimate threat, but who is the real threat, the reapers or something behind them, as much as I know a lot of the fans don't like the idea, the reapers themselves could in the end just turn out to be tools, just as husks are tools of the reapers, it maybe that Harby is the AI and all other reapers are his slaves, remember, these are just my thoughts, but Bioware has been playing mind games with us, so I'm no longer looking to the obvious as I once did, reapers pure evil? that's the question is'nt it.

True.  Releasing the Rachni for a second time would be inviting disaster, and I'm still not sure how the Queen avoided indoctrination and how she can somehow stop her children being indoctrinated too.

As for the Reapers, I'm still going to go for 'evil'.  Maybe not maliciously so, maybe just utterly alien in thinking, but extremists and mass murderers regardless.  Doesn't really matter how good the cause is, if you have to do what they did to achieve it then something went very wrong.

[legaldinho]

FellishBeast wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

So just read this tweet by Gamble. Seems to remove one of the few pieces of IT evidence we have left.

http://twitter.com/G...402917286281216

His tweet explains why Shepard was bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot.

"Shepard got wounded pretty badly during the conduit run. Did you not notice his inability to walk for the citadel?"

Without sounding like someone who's grasping at straws, but you didn't specificly say that the bleeding is not caused from Shepard shooting himself. He just suggested what some here have already suggested for an literal explaination for the bleeding.

It's nothing new, and his phrasing is important.

If he wanted to deny it, he would have done so more explicitly, like when I tweeted him whether the Destroyer on Earth let the Normandy escape, his answer was a clear "No".

If you mean Harbinger, then he's right, he didn't let them escape. The Normandy is not an easy target like foot soldiers and tanks. There were swarms of them running to the beam. One man goes up and the reapers are screwed. If you listen to the sound in the background while Shepard says goodbye, you'll here the explosions and reaper beams going off.

Unless you guys think Hammer stopped and stood still while the Normandy picked up two people and resumed after they were good?

The stationary normandy is not an easy target like the soldiers. It's so much bigger. Why, if you were shooting at ants, and a big fat stationary turtle protruded, you'd think "nah, I best keep shooting them ants cos that turtle looks like it's gonna dodge a bullet like gw bush dodges iraqi shoes".

Top marks, thumbs up. You're my hero.

lmao, thank you for this. 

Honestly, I've had enough of his asinine posts.

Had to be me... someone else...

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

So just read this tweet by Gamble. Seems to remove one of the few pieces of IT evidence we have left.

http://twitter.com/G...402917286281216

His tweet explains why Shepard was bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot.

"Shepard got wounded pretty badly during the conduit run. Did you not notice his inability to walk for the citadel?"

Funny how I was saying the same thing for months....

And yet you never once convincingly explained why she only starts bleeding heavily after she sits down.

Not trying to sound like a jerk, but I tried. I'll quote a line by Chris Rock from the movie Dogma.

"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea, changing a
belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working
from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and
limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."

If you believe IT so strongly, it's hard for any suggestions and evidence present to convince you otherwise.

Now again, why did he bleed like that? He was already bleeding and you could see it getting worse as time progresses. I posted pics showing the progress of his blood running down his arms. Also, his left "wound" wouldn't bleed all over his right hand, forearm and biceps. Unless Shepard smeared his arms all over his wounds without us seeing.

Nice quote you found but Shepard was also shot in the shoulder. Yet he can still wield a gun without shouting in pain.

And he's shot all throughout the game with no Shields don't to less than a single bar, but continues even without Medigel.

[Andromidius]

DrTsoni wrote...

As for my opinion on the IFF...It's still installed (EDI mentions it) and it's possible, I suppose. It was only meant to get them through the Omega-4 Relay though, it wasn't meant to trick the Reapers. Or the Collectors for that matter. Assumedly they'd be monitoring the Relay and would know the second someone passed through it. Since thier ship was already there, they'd know it was someone that shouldn't be there, IFF or not.

Yeah, if anything the IFF is just a beacon that says 'Friend'.  Might work at long range, but once you get closer the Reapers would notice that it isn't a Reaper.  And then when they get close enough to see it visually, the game is completely up.

And that's also the deal with the Stealth System - it doesn't cloak the ship, merely masks the energy signitures.  Which it can't do 100% of the time, and I imagine can't do at all during combat or when the loading bay is open.

[llbountyhunter]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Joedogg9999 wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

So just read this tweet by Gamble. Seems to remove one of the few pieces of IT evidence we have left.

http://twitter.com/G...402917286281216

His tweet explains why Shepard was bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot.

"Shepard got wounded pretty badly during the conduit run. Did you not notice his inability to walk for the citadel?"

what do you mean "one of the few piecesof it evidence we have left"?

i havent been able to keep up with this thread fast enough. what else has been debunked? everything in the original ending IT wise is still there in EC

I know right... its a literalist posing as a It-er........ <_<

Incorrect. Ive been posting every now and then since the first thread. And was a big fan of the theory.

Since EC not so sure. When i said few pieces of evidence we have left, maybe not the best words, but with the reject ending not getting the breath scene, the other ending seeming more literal than ever, the normandy pick up and joker leaving the fight explained, And now gamble tweeting this, i just havent felt like IT was the sure thing that i was expecting.

Still a fan just not confident about it any more.

the entire mass effect series points solidly at IT, or some form of  IT.

 

we have too many clues in my opinion....



I also added the vid to my thread...
http://social.biowar.../index/12547432 

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:05 .

[EpyonX3]

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

[Big Bad]

legaldinho wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

So just read this tweet by Gamble. Seems to remove one of the few pieces of IT evidence we have left.

http://twitter.com/G...402917286281216

His tweet explains why Shepard was bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot.

"Shepard got wounded pretty badly during the conduit run. Did you not notice his inability to walk for the citadel?"

Without sounding like someone who's grasping at straws, but you didn't specificly say that the bleeding is not caused from Shepard shooting himself. He just suggested what some here have already suggested for an literal explaination for the bleeding.

It's nothing new, and his phrasing is important.

If he wanted to deny it, he would have done so more explicitly, like when I tweeted him whether the Destroyer on Earth let the Normandy escape, his answer was a clear "No".

If you mean Harbinger, then he's right, he didn't let them escape. The Normandy is not an easy target like foot soldiers and tanks. There were swarms of them running to the beam. One man goes up and the reapers are screwed. If you listen to the sound in the background while Shepard says goodbye, you'll here the explosions and reaper beams going off.

Unless you guys think Hammer stopped and stood still while the Normandy picked up two people and resumed after they were good?

The stationary normandy is not an easy target like the soldiers. It's so much bigger. Why, if you were shooting at ants, and a big fat stationary turtle protruded, you'd think "nah, I best keep shooting them ants cos that turtle looks like it's gonna dodge a bullet like gw bush dodges iraqi shoes".

Top marks, thumbs up. You're my hero.

lmao, thank you for this. 

Honestly, I've had enough of his asinine posts.

Had to be me... someone else...

Hey, I disagree with EpyonX3 most of the time, but he is by far the most polite and reasonable IT skeptic to consistently post here.  There's no need to be rude.

[Salient Archer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Vaya wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

*snip*

If he wanted to deny it, he would have done so more explicitly, like when I tweeted him whether the Destroyer on Earth let the Normandy escape, his answer was a clear "No".

Wait Harbinger didn't let the Normandy escape on purpose ? It's really an incoherence ?

Bil Casey made a valid point on another thread about this, though : "It would have been completely stupid for Harbinger to destroy the Normandy since the brat couldn't use EDI as leverage" (paraphrasing)... Not to speak about Shep getting pretty mad after loosing her squadmates (and eventually her LI)...

I assume he asked and was answered about the destroyer in Vancouver, not Harbinger at the end.

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I thought this too and considering the Normandy is the most advanced stealth/recon ship in the Alliance fleet which also happens to carry a Reaper IFF unit, but that does raise other issues:

1) Why not give the whole galactic fleet the Reaper IFF algorithim? The salarian's have it so why not everyone else? 
2) Even if the Reaper IFF prevented Harbinger from detecting the SR2 in the conventional way he can clearly see it infront of him.
3) It shows during the beam charge that Harbinger can fire multiple thanix beams at once, a single shot would have been enough to incapacitate the vesel and be the perefect opportunity to take out Shepard as well.
4) If the Reaper IFF is so effective how do the Reapers manage to chase the SR2 around an entire solar system with pinpoint accuracy during the galaxy map mini-games.

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Vaya wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

*snip*

If he wanted to deny it, he would have done so more explicitly, like when I tweeted him whether the Destroyer on Earth let the Normandy escape, his answer was a clear "No".

Wait Harbinger didn't let the Normandy escape on purpose ? It's really an incoherence ?

Bil Casey made a valid point on another thread about this, though : "It would have been completely stupid for Harbinger to destroy the Normandy since the brat couldn't use EDI as leverage" (paraphrasing)... Not to speak about Shep getting pretty mad after loosing her squadmates (and eventually her LI)...

I assume he asked and was answered about the destroyer in Vancouver, not Harbinger at the end.

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I find that a pretty weak explanation.... the collector ship and collector drones detected the normandy very easily despite the IFF.

so the collectors, reaper pawns, have better scanners than the reapers themselvs? 

[Vaya]

Uncle Jo wrote...

Big Bad wrote...


I'm sure there are many conceivable reasons why Harbinger didn't shoot the Normandy - plot armor being the most likely one - however, being too busy killing other people and not being able to see a space ship just several hundred yards away from him don't seem especially plausible.

Not if you consider the last (long) moment after Joker picked up the wounded, where the Normandy and Harbinger are literally just staring at each other.

I got the definate impression that the scene was done that way in part to make the point that Harbinger DIDNT fire on the Normandy. If they just wanted to fill the plot hole of your lost squad members and lack of farewell scene, they could have just dispatched the Normandy stealth shuttle to drop off marine reinfocements and evac the wounded. Using the Normandy just sets off peoples BS detectors.

[legaldinho]

@ big bad re epyon.

reasonable can blur into passive aggressive. His contention that the normandy was a much harder target to hit than the normandy, couched in reasonable terms, fell very clearly into that category. It was utter nonsense.

Modifié par legaldinho, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:07 .

[Benjiprice]

About the Scene where Harby doenst shoot Normandy, i still think its because he wants Shep indocrinated inside of the Citadel!

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors arent the same as reapers... they are reaper pawn. but

your saying
collectors>reapers?

lol.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:09 .

[EpyonX3]

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

If that was the case, then the Reapers would never chase the Normandy (and destroy it if they caught it) using the scanning mini-game.  And before you say they detect the scan, that only alerts them someone is in the system - not the exact location of a fast moving target.

The Reapers have highly advanced technology, they wouldn't be confused easily.  Its been noted that technology that disables the sensors of Geth, for example, have no effect on Reapers (or even upgraded Geth, for that matter).

Scanning doesn't send out IFF signals, therefore it's detectable as an organic ship. It explains why reapers never ambush you unless you scan.

[Uncle Jo]

Big Bad wrote...

Is the "not" in your comment in reference to the plot armor being the most likely explanation?  If so, you very well could be right, but I don't want to read too much into that scene.  Mostly because I just don't want to get my hopes up too high anymore. 

Plot armor is indeed the first thing I thought of and I still really don't know what to think of it. Why did they emphasized this face-to-face moment ? Just for the hell of it and to make it cool ? Maybe.

We don't see what happens on the ground at this moment but I honestly had the feeling that Harbinger was just staring at the Normandy. It happens almost on slow-motion. As if everything just stopped for a moment.

If you want my point of view on literal terms, I think that the whole scene (aside from being a little out-of-place. You know it's not just as if it was an all-out assault on the beam, with the fate of the galaxy at stake...) would have been better with Cortez (or another pilot if he died before) just landing with a Kodiak to pick up your squademates, while the Normandy put some stunts to distract Harbinger...

Edit : For the last part of my post. Presence of the Normandy not required. Too much risk to get shot down.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:14 .

[Salient Archer]

Also I hate to say this time and time again, but..: PLEASE BE CIVIL TO EACH OTHER!!! EpyonX3 isn't a troll so please don't treat him as one.

[Auralius Carolus]

paxxton wrote...

XXIceColdXX wrote...

So just read this tweet by Gamble. Seems to remove one of the few pieces of IT evidence we have left.

http://twitter.com/G...402917286281216

His tweet explains why Shepard was bleeding from the same place Anderson was shot.

"Shepard got wounded pretty badly during the conduit run. Did you not notice his inability to walk for the citadel?"

And so he just magically starts bleeding again at the Control Panel, then the Space Brat somehow brings him around. The latter is a big ??? to me.

If this all turns out to be literal, then it's a seriously bad attempt at narration. REALLY bad. Blood loss is not something you recover quickly from.

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

[DJBare]

Andromidius wrote...

As for the Reapers, I'm still going to go for 'evil'.  Maybe not maliciously so, maybe just utterly alien in thinking, but extremists and mass murderers regardless.  Doesn't really matter how good the cause is, if you have to do what they did to achieve it then something went very wrong.

That's the problem I have, you cannot really classify something as evil if it's acting on an imperative, it's not "good" obviously, but if the reapers are under the control of an AI, then there is no good or evil, just something acting on it's programming, screwed up programming, if your computer corrupts data, it's not an evil act.

[Andromidius]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

If that was the case, then the Reapers would never chase the Normandy (and destroy it if they caught it) using the scanning mini-game.  And before you say they detect the scan, that only alerts them someone is in the system - not the exact location of a fast moving target.

The Reapers have highly advanced technology, they wouldn't be confused easily.  Its been noted that technology that disables the sensors of Geth, for example, have no effect on Reapers (or even upgraded Geth, for that matter).

Scanning doesn't send out IFF signals, therefore it's detectable as an organic ship. It explains why reapers never ambush you unless you scan.

That wasn't my point.

My point was that the Normandy's stealth systems don't help against Reapers, at least at medium/short range.  Neither does the IFF.  And the proof of this is when you're scanning and then the Reapers are all over you.

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

If that was the case, then the Reapers would never chase the Normandy (and destroy it if they caught it) using the scanning mini-game.  And before you say they detect the scan, that only alerts them someone is in the system - not the exact location of a fast moving target.

The Reapers have highly advanced technology, they wouldn't be confused easily.  Its been noted that technology that disables the sensors of Geth, for example, have no effect on Reapers (or even upgraded Geth, for that matter).

Scanning doesn't send out IFF signals, therefore it's detectable as an organic ship. It explains why reapers never ambush you unless you scan.

the normandy wasnt sending out signals in the end of me2 and the occulus still found it, along with the collector ship. 

remember, the collectors are reaper pawns. your saying that the masters failed to both visually and mechanicaly see the huge ship in front of it?

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

If there was only one Collector ship, where did the Reapers get the Collector swarms they used during the Miracle at Palaven?

[llbountyhunter]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

how did the collectors detect it? doesnt the normandy have the IFF? 

[Andromidius]

DJBare wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

As for the Reapers, I'm still going to go for 'evil'.  Maybe not maliciously so, maybe just utterly alien in thinking, but extremists and mass murderers regardless.  Doesn't really matter how good the cause is, if you have to do what they did to achieve it then something went very wrong.

That's the problem I have, you cannot really classify something as evil if it's acting on an imperative, it's not "good" obviously, but if the reapers are under the control of an AI, then there is no good or evil, just something acting on it's programming, screwed up programming, if your computer corrupts data, it's not an evil act.

Fair point.  Though such a thing still needs to be stopped, like a rabid dog needs to be put down.

Which might seem a bit blunt, but hey.  If the Reapers want to use the 'its our nature' argument:P

[Either.Ardrey]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

While this is in no one's favor or disfavor, if I recall correctly, the cinematography specifically showed the Normandy was visually detected by Oculus drones, which then attacked the Normandy, and later the Collector ship came out.