55528 réponses à ce sujet

[SirLugash]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

I appreciate your explanations, but let's be clear here at some point.
Even though what you wrote might be true, we still have the situation that the Normandy is in VERY close proximity to Harbinger, the Reaper Boss.
Even with an IFF, Harbinger would at least "see" Normandy and notice that it is an organic frigate and not a 2km tall capital ship (or a 160m tall Destroyer).
And even if that's not the case, he can shoot running soldiers with precision shots, and even if he still doesn't recognize the Normandy as an enemy, we still got Shepard standing in front of this frickin thing.
Why isn't he shooting at him while he isn't moving in front of the Normandy for a considerable amount of time ?
Does he have an IFF too ? Obviously not ^^
It just doesn't add up, basically Harbinger doesn't want to wreck neither the Normandy nor Shepard.
Bioware wants both to exist at that point, but this particular section makes no sense.

[BansheeOwnage]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Another reason I like Destroy with High EMS because We seem to take control of the Citadel, which means we become the leaders of the new galaxy. Not only that but Shepard lives, if taken literally, so it'd be nice seeing him lead that new galaxy.

Shepard maybe. But I don't have enough faith in you-manatee to run things on a galactic scale. We can't even sort things out here on Earth.

[EpyonX3]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

If that was the case, then the Reapers would never chase the Normandy (and destroy it if they caught it) using the scanning mini-game.  And before you say they detect the scan, that only alerts them someone is in the system - not the exact location of a fast moving target.

The Reapers have highly advanced technology, they wouldn't be confused easily.  Its been noted that technology that disables the sensors of Geth, for example, have no effect on Reapers (or even upgraded Geth, for that matter).

Scanning doesn't send out IFF signals, therefore it's detectable as an organic ship. It explains why reapers never ambush you unless you scan.

That wasn't my point.

My point was that the Normandy's stealth systems don't help against Reapers, at least at medium/short range.  Neither does the IFF.  And the proof of this is when you're scanning and then the Reapers are all over you.

I understood your point. That's why I said you can fly through reaper controlled space without reapers bothering you once. When you scan, you're sending out signals that wouldn't occur in nature. If it's not reaper, then it's organic tech. Only logical action is to find it and kill it.

It's not that it's detecting the normandy, more like it's detecting "something" nearby.

I don't want to argue but Harbinger has visual sensors (eyes). He can see the Normandy. Anyway, if no reapers could see the Normandy because of their IFF, the Normandy could just kill all of the reapers. Slowly sure, but they could do it.

Not really. Reapers travel alone even though they're really tough to kill. The normandy has awesome weapons, if you did all of the upgrades, but it's still not able to take out multiple capital ships. Otherwise, scanning for planets would have been a blast!

[MrT493]

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

[Auralius Carolus]

These endings just get too darn Fairy Tale-ish. I'm beginning to feel ill...

[EpyonX3]

SirLugash wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

I don't think so. The Reaper IFF allowed you to go through the Omega 4 Relay without being sent to the blackhole. But even you were right, why did the collector ship and the oculus attacked the Normandy on sight ? It seems to me very unlikely that they possessed a technology or ability that a capital ship didn't have.

The collectors aren't reaper ships. The Normandy isn't 100% undetectable by Reapers since they pick yu up when scanning planets. But you can freely fly through reaper controlled space without being ambushed by reaper ships.

Also, the relay let them through because they were seen as a reaper friend.

your right... collector ships and the collectors are reaper pawns.... so your saying

collectors>reapers?

lol.

No, I'm saying Collectors knew better since they were the only ones allowed. Any ship coming through the relay or approaches they don't fully recognize gets attacked. Let me clarify. If all Collector ships, I think there was only one, are docked at the base, and a ship comes through the relay and survives, then it's enemy.

I appreciate your explanations, but let's be clear here at some point.
Even though what you wrote might be true, we still have the situation that the Normandy is in VERY close proximity to Harbinger, the Reaper Boss.
Even with an IFF, Harbinger would at least "see" Normandy and notice that it is an organic frigate and not a 2km tall capital ship (or a 160m tall Destroyer).
And even if that's not the case, he can shoot running soldiers with precision shots, and even if he still doesn't recognize the Normandy as an enemy, we still got Shepard standing in front of this frickin thing.
Why isn't he shooting at him while he isn't moving in front of the Normandy for a considerable amount of time ?
Does he have an IFF too ? Obviously not ^^
It just doesn't add up, basically Harbinger doesn't want to wreck neither the Normandy nor Shepard.
Bioware wants both to exist at that point, but this particular section makes no sense.

It's actually not as close as you think. I'll take a few shots from the game to illustrate. Also, listen to the background during the pick up. You hear the explosions and the reaper beams going off. Harbigner is busy.

[Vaya]

paxxton wrote...

Vaya wrote...

paxxton wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

By the way, I'm not really sure but,

I think this is London...


<_<

This is Eden Prime. Did you add that beam in Photoshop?

So why is the beam still there? It didn't click that that was in the slideshow when I saw it.

There is no beam in this picture. At least when it shows up in the game. There are Reapers though which aren't in this one.

I just reviewed the destroy ending to make sure I wasn't punked. Its there, followed by an image of the rebuilt citadel pointing the beam.

[Auralius Carolus]

MrT493 wrote...

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

Harbinger is a pro with those thanix beams. If he wanted too, Shepard would have been incinerated. The Normandy, if you'll note, also hovered at a higher altitude in front of Harbinger: why not at least cripple it?

Bah.

[llbountyhunter]

MrT493 wrote...

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

for fear of killing shepard? if harbinger was bieng so percatious i dont think harbinger wouldve incinerated all the other air vehicles in the area.... and then strike directly at shepard. 

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

[BansheeOwnage]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

I'm starting to think that reapers actually have a tough time detecting the Normandy. Perhaps the Reaper IFF is still installed and makes them look like a friend. That's why the destroyer ignored them and Harbinger didn't bother shooting at it.

If that was the case, then the Reapers would never chase the Normandy (and destroy it if they caught it) using the scanning mini-game.  And before you say they detect the scan, that only alerts them someone is in the system - not the exact location of a fast moving target.

The Reapers have highly advanced technology, they wouldn't be confused easily.  Its been noted that technology that disables the sensors of Geth, for example, have no effect on Reapers (or even upgraded Geth, for that matter).

Scanning doesn't send out IFF signals, therefore it's detectable as an organic ship. It explains why reapers never ambush you unless you scan.

That wasn't my point.

My point was that the Normandy's stealth systems don't help against Reapers, at least at medium/short range.  Neither does the IFF.  And the proof of this is when you're scanning and then the Reapers are all over you.

I understood your point. That's why I said you can fly through reaper controlled space without reapers bothering you once. When you scan, you're sending out signals that wouldn't occur in nature. If it's not reaper, then it's organic tech. Only logical action is to find it and kill it.

It's not that it's detecting the normandy, more like it's detecting "something" nearby.

I don't want to argue but Harbinger has visual sensors (eyes). He can see the Normandy. Anyway, if no reapers could see the Normandy because of their IFF, the Normandy could just kill all of the reapers. Slowly sure, but they could do it.

Not really. Reapers travel alone even though they're really tough to kill. The normandy has awesome weapons, if you did all of the upgrades, but it's still not able to take out multiple capital ships. Otherwise, scanning for planets would have been a blast!

Sorry bro. You missed my point. That's why I said it would take a while. But if what you say is true about the IFF then the Normandy could just kill all reapers given enough time. PERIOD. And reapers don't go it alone in a fight. Could someone help me with this one because I'm gonna go.

[llbountyhunter]

llbountyhunter wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

I'm sure there are many conceivable reasons why Harbinger didn't shoot the Normandy - plot armor being the most likely one - however, being too busy killing other people and not being able to see a space ship just several hundred yards away from him don't seem especially plausible.

Shooting the Normandy once would not take it out like the other tagets heading towards the beam. Aside from that it has stealth drives and a reaper IFF. Spending time shooting at a nearly invisible target that will just most likely absorb the shots is not efficient.

That's my opinion at least.

why not?



and you realize only the heat signatures are hidden, right? 

and even IF harbinger couldnt see the nomandy (even though the collectors could) shepard would still make the easiest target standing their for several minutes while everyone else was running, and oh- now two of his teamates would of disapeard into a point slightly above shepards head. why not shoot there?

[ThisOneIsPunny]

jgibson14352 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This is Eden Prime. Did you add that beam in Photoshop?

Bollocks, you caught me.
It was Source Filmmaker , actually.

sonuva... i was about to say... the battle rages on...

ok so I saw a bioware dev say something along the lines of "these are the definitive endings to the trilogy. we have no plans for further ending dlc".

I know they said lots of things that aren't true but this particular statement makes me want to just get rid of my ME games, no sense in keeping them, just make me feel sick when I look at them.

BUM BUM BUUM.
ive posted this like 5 times over the past few days, i swear im known for this now.

They're technically telling the truth if they expand on the endings through each piece of sp dlc they come out with, though, aren't they? To me, the Leviathan shindig is pointing that way and it makes sense if you factor in that end message. What was it, "Buy more dlc to continue to build that legend" or something?

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

There is no beam in this picture. At least when it shows up in the game. There are Reapers though which aren't in this one.

Maybe if you picked something other than control every time you'd know that you're wrong.

But I saw cool pictures of friendly and helpful Reapers rebulding the Citadel and a Mass Relay.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:48 .

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

Because it shows the beam in high EMS destroy.

[CoolioThane]

 

I felt we need some light-hearted fun to stifle the serious feel at the moment.

This is me by the way, in all my glory...Please just not be mad anymore!...I'm English  

[DJBare]

Uncle Jo wrote...
I do see your point. But what disturbs me is not that the Reapers are evil (it's matter of perspective anways), it's the very idea that they can be controlled/indoctrinated.

IMO if it happens to be true then BW would have made the badest move on the ME universe. Because then the writers would have make a fool of your main antagonist.

Sovereign's scene on Virmire would boil down to a nonsensical rant of someone whose place is rather in a madhouse than as vanguard of the Reapers. Harbinger (if also indoctrinated) would also suffer from severe personality disorders.

Being indoctrinated or controlled for more than 1 billion of years without even being aware of it ? And still thinking that they're independant, free of all weaknesses, that the forces of the universe bend to them ? That would be really a tragic farce.

Wait, I begin to really understand what you meant... No. No, no, I won't go this path.

For that, I'll refer you to Saren's and TIM's ramblings, yet both can be redeemed with high enough speech check, both spoke with arrogance, Sovereign spoke with arrogance, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the reapers can be talked down like Saren and TIM, that would be a very disappointing end to the series, but I am kinda hoping there is a paragon way to finish the reapers, I dunno, maybe you have to undergo an epic battle to get inside Harbinger and destroy him from within, this releases his control on all the other reapers, or a renegade action that obliterates all reapers, just my thoughts.

[MrT493]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MrT493 wrote...

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

for fear of killing shepard? if harbinger was bieng so percatious i dont think harbinger wouldve incinerated all the other air vehicles in the area.... and then strike directly at shepard. 

Possibly. But the point is, he didnt incinerate Shepard. If Shepard was such a high value target that had to be killed then Harbinger wouldn't miss from such close range and then just leave as he sees Shepard still barely alive and stumbling to the beam.

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

Because it shows the beam in high EMS destroy.

Maybe it has some meaning for IT? The beam is used to send people to be processed on the Citadel. It would send a comforting message if it was deactivated.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

Because it shows the beam in high EMS destroy.

For reference;

shows a few seconds after

Modifié par ThisOneIsPunny, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:50 .

[jgibson14352]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

paxxton wrote...

This is Eden Prime. Did you add that beam in Photoshop?

Bollocks, you caught me.
It was Source Filmmaker , actually.

sonuva... i was about to say... the battle rages on...

ok so I saw a bioware dev say something along the lines of "these are the definitive endings to the trilogy. we have no plans for further ending dlc".

I know they said lots of things that aren't true but this particular statement makes me want to just get rid of my ME games, no sense in keeping them, just make me feel sick when I look at them.

BUM BUM BUUM.
ive posted this like 5 times over the past few days, i swear im known for this now.

They're technically telling the truth if they expand on the endings through each piece of sp dlc they come out with, though, aren't they? To me, the Leviathan shindig is pointing that way and it makes sense if you factor in that end message. What was it, "Buy more dlc to continue to build that legend" or something?

Tully Ackland has posted that exact same statement twice, you could see it as he knows he means it. but its still weird how NO bioware-er has outright said, "we did not write and design the endings as though shepard was indoctrinated, and will not release any dlc expanding on such". i know that while id be disappointed, id be happy for finally having a direct answer instead of all htis beating around the bull****. jos hendrikson and any other dev wont confirm or deny though, just ambiguous "cant answer that" statements

[SirLugash]

jgibson14352 wrote...

just a really interesting question, why did the human proto-reaper in me2 look human? no other reaper looks like anything other than the typical, aphid-like capital ships and destroyers.
also, on the citadel after the beam charge, where exactly are they making the reaper? the hollow space is the middle is empty, and i dont remember seeing the liquification tubes anywhere

1. It's only the core of the Reapers that looks like the race it's made from.
You might remember that the Human Reaper Larva wasn't 2km tall, right ?
It's the core, which is covered by the squid-like shell that looks like Sovereign.

2. Probably in that empty space when you would look down.
But even if they were already that far to start building it (remember the Citadel was just brought there, so they just started getting humans up there), Bioware wouldn't have modeled it as the player wouldn't see it anyways from how the sequence is progressing.

[Auralius Carolus]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Sorry bro. You missed my point. That's why I said it would take a while. But if what you say is true about the IFF then the Normandy could just kill all reapers given enough time. PERIOD. And reapers don't go it alone in a fight. Could someone help me with this one because I'm gonna go.

The Reaper IFF has never worked. An IFF is a Friend/Foe detection code: remember those Occuli in ME2? The Normandy's very presence activated them. They would have likely never moved if the IFF worked.

There is, however, a possible third option, however odd it may seem. The Leviathan leak has brought to bear the notion of Rogue Reapers. If the Reaper IFF was that of a rogue, it could have potentially confused Harbinger as well as triggered the Occuli.

[llbountyhunter]

MrT493 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MrT493 wrote...

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

for fear of killing shepard? if harbinger was bieng so percatious i dont think harbinger wouldve incinerated all the other air vehicles in the area.... and then strike directly at shepard. 

Possibly. But the point is, he didnt incinerate Shepard. If Shepard was such a high value target that had to be killed then Harbinger wouldn't miss from such close range and then just leave as he sees Shepard still barely alive and stumbling to the beam.

well I think the halucination started at the shuttle crash

the literal endings makes no sense to me

[Simon_Says]

DJBare wrote...

For that, I'll refer you to Saren's and TIM's ramblings, yet both can be redeemed with high enough speech check, both spoke with arrogance, Sovereign spoke with arrogance, now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the reapers can be talked down like Saren and TIM, that would be a very disappointing end to the series, but I am kinda hoping there is a paragon way to finish the reapers, I dunno, maybe you have to undergo an epic battle to get inside Harbinger and destroy him from within, this releases his control on all the other reapers, or a renegade action that obliterates all reapers, just my thoughts.

Like, say, shooting something to make the Crucible kill all reapers?