55528 réponses à ce sujet

[EpyonX3]

BTW Harbingers line is a reused sound from a destroyer. I'll post my findings later.

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

Watch the High EMS Destroy Ending.

[jgibson14352]

SirLugash wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

just a really interesting question, why did the human proto-reaper in me2 look human? no other reaper looks like anything other than the typical, aphid-like capital ships and destroyers.
also, on the citadel after the beam charge, where exactly are they making the reaper? the hollow space is the middle is empty, and i dont remember seeing the liquification tubes anywhere

1. It's only the core of the Reapers that looks like the race it's made from.
You might remember that the Human Reaper Larva wasn't 2km tall, right ?
It's the core, which is covered by the squid-like shell that looks like Sovereign.

2. Probably in that empty space when you would look down.
But even if they were already that far to start building it (remember the Citadel was just brought there, so they just started getting humans up there), Bioware wouldn't have modeled it as the player wouldn't see it anyways from how the sequence is progressing.

1. but remember the dead reaper in me2, the one near klendagoon with dr chandanas team? you fought your way to and destroyed its core, and saw nothing out of the ordinary (other than dead bodies hanging from dragons teeth)
2. sure, but there would have to be live humans to liquify, correct? note that there were dead bodies on the collector ship, but only live people where liquified in the pods on the collector base

[Auralius Carolus]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BTW Harbingers line is a reused sound from a destroyer. I'll post my findings later.

I was thinking that I'd heard all of his sounds throughout the game.

Not having Harbinger return as a vocal antagonist is like getting a box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch, sans any sugar.

[paxxton]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

This is High EMS destroy. We end up reactivating the Beam as we repair the Citadel.

How do you know that?

Because it shows the beam in high EMS destroy.

For reference;

shows a few seconds after

So Kaidan doesn't put Shepard's name on the Memorial Wall and laughs during the funeral. This is an outrage!  Then there's the breath scene.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:00 .

[SirLugash]

EpyonX3 wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I appreciate your explanations, but let's be clear here at some point.
Even though what you wrote might be true, we still have the situation that the Normandy is in VERY close proximity to Harbinger, the Reaper Boss.
Even with an IFF, Harbinger would at least "see" Normandy and notice that it is an organic frigate and not a 2km tall capital ship (or a 160m tall Destroyer).
And even if that's not the case, he can shoot running soldiers with precision shots, and even if he still doesn't recognize the Normandy as an enemy, we still got Shepard standing in front of this frickin thing.
Why isn't he shooting at him while he isn't moving in front of the Normandy for a considerable amount of time ?
Does he have an IFF too ? Obviously not ^^
It just doesn't add up, basically Harbinger doesn't want to wreck neither the Normandy nor Shepard.
Bioware wants both to exist at that point, but this particular section makes no sense.

It's actually not as close as you think. I'll take a few shots from the game to illustrate. Also, listen to the background during the pick up. You hear the explosions and the reaper beams going off. Harbigner is busy.

I don't mean close as they almost touch, but just very, very close.
Over Earth, the galactic flotilla and the Reapers are fighting in way greater distance.
To your second point, yes Harbinger is busy, but he fires his lasers in fast succession and what's more important, once the Normandy elevates (when they're staring at each other basically), he's not firing at all, at least I didn't hear any lase shots.

[MrT493]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MrT493 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MrT493 wrote...

Maybe Harbinger didn't shoot at the Normandy for fear of killing Shepard in the process. Throughout ME2 Harbinger talks about how he wants to control Shepard so it would make sense that he waited for the Normandy to leave so he could get Shepard on his own. Also, if Harbinger wanted to kill Shepard surely he would have got a direct shot on Shepard which would have completely annihilated him as opposed to the apparent near miss shot which results in Shepard being able to get up and walk to the beam (if we take this part as literal and not a dream).

for fear of killing shepard? if harbinger was bieng so percatious i dont think harbinger wouldve incinerated all the other air vehicles in the area.... and then strike directly at shepard. 

Possibly. But the point is, he didnt incinerate Shepard. If Shepard was such a high value target that had to be killed then Harbinger wouldn't miss from such close range and then just leave as he sees Shepard still barely alive and stumbling to the beam.

well I think the halucination started at the shuttle crash

the literal endings makes no sense to me

I see. Never thought of that, always had the idea that it may have started from the laser beam of death. That's an interesting find

[D.Sharrah]

Edit: Better version below.

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 01 juillet 2012 - 01:27 .

[SirLugash]

jgibson14352 wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

just a really interesting question, why did the human proto-reaper in me2 look human? no other reaper looks like anything other than the typical, aphid-like capital ships and destroyers.
also, on the citadel after the beam charge, where exactly are they making the reaper? the hollow space is the middle is empty, and i dont remember seeing the liquification tubes anywhere

1. It's only the core of the Reapers that looks like the race it's made from.
You might remember that the Human Reaper Larva wasn't 2km tall, right ?
It's the core, which is covered by the squid-like shell that looks like Sovereign.

2. Probably in that empty space when you would look down.
But even if they were already that far to start building it (remember the Citadel was just brought there, so they just started getting humans up there), Bioware wouldn't have modeled it as the player wouldn't see it anyways from how the sequence is progressing.

1. but remember the dead reaper in me2, the one near klendagoon with dr chandanas team? you fought your way to and destroyed its core, and saw nothing out of the ordinary (other than dead bodies hanging from dragons teeth)
2. sure, but there would have to be live humans to liquify, correct? note that there were dead bodies on the collector ship, but only live people where liquified in the pods on the collector base

1. What we destroyed in the derelict Reaper was the Mass Effect Core.
With "Core of a Reaper", I mean the basic, internal construct.
The Mass Core in the derelict Reaper also wasn't as big as the Human Reaper Larva ^^

2.Good point, I'm not sure though.
Maybe only the Collectors were bounded to living objects and the Reapers (or better the Keepers) can work with dead bodies as well.
Why would they send them up otherwise ?
Or it's just that the construction of the Reaper hasn't begun yet.

[Andromidius]

SirLugash wrote...

2.Good point, I'm not sure though.
Maybe only the Collectors were bounded to living objects and the Reapers (or better the Keepers) can work with dead bodies as well.
Why would they send them up otherwise ?
Or it's just that the construction of the Reaper hasn't begun yet.

This is pure speculation, but its possible live organics are needed to make the Reaper's core - i.e. the AI inside the larger structure.  And dead bodies can then be used to create the outer shell?

[EpyonX3]

Can't post it now, but Harbinger's "Serve Us" line can be heard from the Destroyer in the Hammer Fail video clip.

[EpyonX3]

SirLugash wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I appreciate your explanations, but let's be clear here at some point.
Even though what you wrote might be true, we still have the situation that the Normandy is in VERY close proximity to Harbinger, the Reaper Boss.
Even with an IFF, Harbinger would at least "see" Normandy and notice that it is an organic frigate and not a 2km tall capital ship (or a 160m tall Destroyer).
And even if that's not the case, he can shoot running soldiers with precision shots, and even if he still doesn't recognize the Normandy as an enemy, we still got Shepard standing in front of this frickin thing.
Why isn't he shooting at him while he isn't moving in front of the Normandy for a considerable amount of time ?
Does he have an IFF too ? Obviously not ^^
It just doesn't add up, basically Harbinger doesn't want to wreck neither the Normandy nor Shepard.
Bioware wants both to exist at that point, but this particular section makes no sense.

It's actually not as close as you think. I'll take a few shots from the game to illustrate. Also, listen to the background during the pick up. You hear the explosions and the reaper beams going off. Harbigner is busy.

I don't mean close as they almost touch, but just very, very close.
Over Earth, the galactic flotilla and the Reapers are fighting in way greater distance.
To your second point, yes Harbinger is busy, but he fires his lasers in fast succession and what's more important, once the Normandy elevates (when they're staring at each other basically), he's not firing at all, at least I didn't hear any lase shots.

That may be as well. I still don't think Harbinger let them go for any reason in particular other than he was busy stomping all of the others. What would weaken Shepard's resolve more than just killing his entire crew in one shot?

Also, the sound is muffled but you can hear it.

Last point unrelated to this, EDI has backup systems. I wonder if the red wave of death kills those too.

[jgibson14352]

SirLugash wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

just a really interesting question, why did the human proto-reaper in me2 look human? no other reaper looks like anything other than the typical, aphid-like capital ships and destroyers.
also, on the citadel after the beam charge, where exactly are they making the reaper? the hollow space is the middle is empty, and i dont remember seeing the liquification tubes anywhere

1. It's only the core of the Reapers that looks like the race it's made from.
You might remember that the Human Reaper Larva wasn't 2km tall, right ?
It's the core, which is covered by the squid-like shell that looks like Sovereign.

2. Probably in that empty space when you would look down.
But even if they were already that far to start building it (remember the Citadel was just brought there, so they just started getting humans up there), Bioware wouldn't have modeled it as the player wouldn't see it anyways from how the sequence is progressing.

1. but remember the dead reaper in me2, the one near klendagoon with dr chandanas team? you fought your way to and destroyed its core, and saw nothing out of the ordinary (other than dead bodies hanging from dragons teeth)
2. sure, but there would have to be live humans to liquify, correct? note that there were dead bodies on the collector ship, but only live people where liquified in the pods on the collector base

1. What we destroyed in the derelict Reaper was the Mass Effect Core.
With "Core of a Reaper", I mean the basic, internal construct.
The Mass Core in the derelict Reaper also wasn't as big as the Human Reaper Larva ^^

2.Good point, I'm not sure though.
Maybe only the Collectors were bounded to living objects and the Reapers (or better the Keepers) can work with dead bodies as well.
Why would they send them up otherwise ?
Or it's just that the construction of the Reaper hasn't begun yet.

1. true, that does seem to be the answer, but was this stated anywhere in the game or extended fiction?
2. the collectors were by all intents and purposes the reapers themselves, everything they did was for the reapers and to further their goals, and were never out of contact with harbinger throughout the process. EDI also said that it appeared that construction of a prothean reaper failed, so that would mean that the protheans dont have their own reaper? and id imagine that the races chosen for destroyers simply dont have this core

[munnellyladt]

You know i just thought of something,
if the endings are to be taken literaly,then control is shown as the best option.
For istance in control,everyone survives,reapers stop attacking, rebuild the mass relays and civilization and leave.
As destroy is shown as the worst option since all synthetics are targeted,
And synthesis just seems wrong if you think about it.
So if this is the case then why is it?
What i mean is,if this is portraied as the best ending,then it goes against everything Shepard stood for since ME1.All he wanted to do was destroy the reapersand then to be told in the last 5 minutes of the trilogy that he can control them and believes he can.
Maybe this is just futher evidence that it's indoctrination.
Also i find the whole concept of shepard actually controling them foolish.
If he can do it then anyone can,right?

[EpyonX3]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Another reason I like Destroy with High EMS because We seem to take control of the Citadel, which means we become the leaders of the new galaxy. Not only that but Shepard lives, if taken literally, so it'd be nice seeing him lead that new galaxy.

Shepard maybe. But I don't have enough faith in you-manatee to run things on a galactic scale. We can't even sort things out here on Earth.

Not this day in age but maybe in the future after a reaper attack can help push things along.

[comrade gando]

jgibson14352 wrote...
Tully Ackland has posted that exact same statement twice, you could see it as he knows he means it. but its still weird how NO bioware-er has outright said, "we did not write and design the endings as though shepard was indoctrinated, and will not release any dlc expanding on such". i know that while id be disappointed, id be happy for finally having a direct answer instead of all htis beating around the bull****. jos hendrikson and any other dev wont confirm or deny though, just ambiguous "cant answer that" statements

if they finally came out and straight up said that, THEN I can finally put this to rest and just get rid of these games. biggest. gaming. disappointment. I'll likely never forget how this company screwed up the greatest story I ever heard in the last 10 minutes. lesson learned: never pre-order, ALWAYS expect the worst.

[Ravereth]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Can't post it now, but Harbinger's "Serve Us" line can be heard from the Destroyer in the Hammer Fail video clip.

And it also can be heard when Shep is helping his squadmates get on the Normandy

[D.Sharrah]

Put this together earlier...new peeps here to see it...so here it is again...

Edit: Tried to format to make this easier to read.  Also, some points from earlier - this is just my best guess and maybe slighlty biased towards Liara (my canon LI).

D.Sharrah wrote...

WARNING: Huge wall of text incoming...

Alright so here is the DLC info pared down to just the dialogue and my best guess as to who is the speaker:


Liara: My sources told me the production numbers were wrong at that mining facility.

Liara: I assumed they were just smuggling red sand. I never took the time to look closer.

Liara: Too much intel, too many places for secrets to hide. I'm going to have to start sleeping less.

Liara: What is it with you and rescuing scientists from dig sites that have been overrun by hostile forces?

Liara: If you decide to help her take down the Shadow Broker, I'm going to be jealous. And somewhat concerned.

Liara: Not that I'm complaining, mind you.

Liara: I'm glad you made it back... and I'd appreciate it if you avoided talking to Leviathan any further.

Liara: I don't want any tentacled creature inside your mind... except me.

Liara: I can only imagine talking to something so huge, so... alien. I hope it helps against the Reapers.

Liara: That mining facility... everyone there under Leviathan's control. It reminded me of Feros.

Liara: That mining facility... all those people, indoctrinated, losing ten years. I can't even imagine what that's like.

Liara: many other people out there are trapped like that? We need to find Leviathan.

Liara: I'm glad Ann Bryson got out safely. I just hope we find Leviathan before the Reapers do.

Liara: I thought I'd lost you down there.

Liara: Don't do that again, not even to forge an alliance with a damned Reaper-killer.

Liara: You're worth more than that.

Liara: So we have Leviathan. I hope it stays on our side.

Edi: Leviathan's mental restraints are odd. My AI shackles served similar purposes, but why add sensations of darkness or cold?

Edi: I have formulated a psych profile for Dr. Ann Bryson. She is not used to death, but she may be quite capable under stress.

Edi: So the Reapers did not fully exterminate their creators. That suggests they are fallible, even on large or long-term scales.

Joker(?): Watching you break the news to Ann about her dad... I gotta say, that was rough.

Liara: I heard you had to break the news to Ann about her dad. I'm sorry, Shepard.

Traynor: It's so brutal what happened to him. I can't imagine what she's going through.

Garrus: You took a huge risk down there. Almost died to figure this out.

Garrus: I've been thinking about what we learned, Shepard. The thing is, I don't really care what the Reapers are or where they're from.

Garrus: They're monsters that need to be put down. That's all I need to know.

Tali(?): I can't believe what I saw down there.

Tali(?): This Leviathan thing can just kick you out of your own head?

Tali(?): I don't know what's worse: killing people outright, or making them suffer like that.

James: Strange stuff back on that asteroid. We've seen indoctrination before, but ten years? Leviathan had its own private army.

James: You've got to wonder how much longer that would have lasted if we hadn't come along.

James: Just when I thought we were getting a handle on Reapers, this happens. Maybe Leviathan's more than a bull's-eye?

Kaidan: Shepard. I admit I was worried about you on that dig site. Things got pretty hectic. Not used to feeling like that, you know.

Kaidan: That's what love does. Turns a guy like me into a nervous wreck with something to lose and the aim to make sure he doesn't. Nobody better hurt you, is all I'm saying.

Kaidan: I can handle the Reapers that run around, or the ones that crawl, or the ones that... shuffle menacingly toward you. But it's the flying ones that give me the creeps.

Ashley: Shepard, I looked over your mission report. Gotta say, it feels like we've been after these Reapers forever...

Ashley: From Sovereign to Leviathan... they've been a pain in the ass the whole time. But at least we're starting to see the big picture.

Ashley: Never really thought we'd get any answers. It doesn't change much, but it does make this war feel a whole lot bigger.

Javik: I saw many strange things in our war against the Reapers. An entire settlement of Densorin were once studying things far beyond their knowledge.

Javik: Celestial mechanics, morphological simulations of galactic language... things even we didn't understand. At the time, I thought they were crazy.

Javik: But now, after what occurred on that asteroid, I wonder.

Javik: If Leviathan is a defector--a Reaper that broke away from the others--then it is also a traitor.

Javik: And traitors are never to be trusted, even among the enemy.

Javik: If they can betray their own kind, imagine what they can do to you.

Javik: I have studied your human religions, Commander--your "Devil" and his fall. Leviathan and its kind deserve the same fate.

Javik: They once unleashed a plague that has haunted all of our history to this day.</data>

Javik: I say their own hell is the abyss you found them in... one I hope they never escape from.

Cortez(?): The mining colony was completely brainwashed, and the Reapers retreat the moment the artifact is destroyed?

Cortez(?): I don't know what's going on, but I know I don't like it.

Cortez(?): Promise me you'll be careful, okay?

Cortez: If another Harvester keeps me from dropping you off in the target LZ, so help me...
James: Esteban, don't let those oversized roaches push you around.

Cortez: Mr. Vega, taking on a sky full of worm-necks in a troop transport is like sending you against the Earth invasion armed with brass knuckles.

James: What? You don't think I could do it?

Cortez: Can't say I was happy sending you down in that submersible by yourself.

Cortez: Wish I could have been with you, but if we were together in that tight space... never mind.

James: Don't know why I ever worry about you. Take on ancient aliens from the deep? Sure, no problem.

James: That asteroid facility was messed up.

James: Ten years of your life, just gone. You're working out there, sending letters to your family back home...

James: Then you wake up, and your hair's gone, your kid's in college, and your six-pack has turned into a keg. Just messed up.

James: I don't know the scientific measurement of a ****-load, but that seemed like a ****-load of harvesters.

James: With the Leviathan on our side, maybe we pull this thing off after all.

James: Too bad Ann never got to see her dad's work pay off.

James: At least Ann's still around to see her dad's work finally pay off.

Shepard(?): Maybe, James.

James: Hey, Commander.

SNIP…(Random conversation enders from the crew)

James(?): Have you ever seen anything like that, Shepard?

Traynor(?): It feels good to help those people get their lives back. Ten years is a lot of lost time.

Joker(?): Let's make sure that we never let time just slip by us, okay?

Joker(?): Hey, Shepard.

James(?): So a Reaper goes rogue and kills one of its own. That's what we're looking at here, right?

James: Bryson really was onto something big. Amazing.

James: A lot of smart people in this galaxy. I'm a lucky guy to work with so many of 'em.

James: Hey, Shepard.

Generic LI(?): You scare the hell out of me with those risky stunts, Shepard, but I guess it's also part of what I love about you.

Joker(?): Nice to have everyone back on dry land, so to speak.

Kaidan: You know, whenever we discover something amazing like that, I wonder what else might be out there... or even right under our noses.

[Malkeor]

I think the title needs to be changed. I think we know now that the ending...or endings, weren't illusions.
You are in fact making up your own illusions for refusing to accept the endings as they are.

I was a hopeful person for IT, but after the EC, it's clearly not that, and in no way was it evident.

[Auralius Carolus]

Kaidan: "You know, whenever we discover something amazing like that, I wonder what else might be out there... or even right under our noses."

Well Kaidan, let me tell you about something we've noticed...

[ThisOneIsPunny]

EpyonX3 wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Another reason I like Destroy with High EMS because We seem to take control of the Citadel, which means we become the leaders of the new galaxy. Not only that but Shepard lives, if taken literally, so it'd be nice seeing him lead that new galaxy.

Shepard maybe. But I don't have enough faith in you-manatee to run things on a galactic scale. We can't even sort things out here on Earth.

Not this day in age but maybe in the future after a reaper attack can help push things along.

Same architectural geniuses that looked at rebuilding London and thought, "Yeah, lets half enclose this city with a big wall and put LONDON in big letters on it." ?

It's plausible, I guess.

[Andromidius]

Malkeor wrote...

I think the title needs to be changed. I think we know now that the ending...or endings, weren't illusions.
You are in fact making up your own illusions for refusing to accept the endings as they are.

I was a hopeful person for IT, but after the EC, it's clearly not that, and in no way was it evident.

Nope, sorry.  The illusion concept is still up in the air.  Too many inconsistancies and unexplained problems with a literal interpretation.

[jgibson14352]

comrade gando wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...
Tully Ackland has posted that exact same statement twice, you could see it as he knows he means it. but its still weird how NO bioware-er has outright said, "we did not write and design the endings as though shepard was indoctrinated, and will not release any dlc expanding on such". i know that while id be disappointed, id be happy for finally having a direct answer instead of all htis beating around the bull****. jos hendrikson and any other dev wont confirm or deny though, just ambiguous "cant answer that" statements

if they finally came out and straight up said that, THEN I can finally put this to rest and just get rid of these games. biggest. gaming. disappointment. I'll likely never forget how this company screwed up the greatest story I ever heard in the last 10 minutes. lesson learned: never pre-order, ALWAYS expect the worst.

Mass Effect is my favorite story of all time as well, even AFTER the endings, which makes this so tough, because even when i really thought the extended cut was the last of shepard, i still had faith in bioware. this would be sooooo much easier if i could just swear off bioware and ME completely, but I CANT.

[comrade gando]

I thought the citadel exploded in destroy.. oh wait it was "badly damaged".. NEVERMIND I GUESS. god this writing sucks hard.

just say IT was true why would they put all those clues in just to say it's not.

[munnellyladt]

comrade gando wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...
Tully Ackland has posted that exact same statement twice, you could see it as he knows he means it. but its still weird how NO bioware-er has outright said, "we did not write and design the endings as though shepard was indoctrinated, and will not release any dlc expanding on such". i know that while id be disappointed, id be happy for finally having a direct answer instead of all htis beating around the bull****. jos hendrikson and any other dev wont confirm or deny though, just ambiguous "cant answer that" statements

if they finally came out and straight up said that, THEN I can finally put this to rest and just get rid of these games. biggest. gaming. disappointment. I'll likely never forget how this company screwed up the greatest story I ever heard in the last 10 minutes. lesson learned: never pre-order, ALWAYS expect the worst.

Somebody should ask bioware did they intend for  indoctrination to be a part of the ending THEY portraied.
So then we might get a straight answer instead of saying something like "we dont want to change how people interprate the endings" or some crap like that.