55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

The exception is if you're playing as a non-import Shep, because in that case you have Wreav, and Eve dies. In that case, its almost a guarantee that the Krogan will start a war if/after the Reaper threat is eliminated. Wreav sends Shepard an email saying he looks forward to being Shepard's enemy in the future.

The problem is, in most cases you do have to shoot Mordin, as it's difficult to get enough rep to talk him down before that point. 

True, I never even consider non-import Shepard, mostly for the same reason I don't consider Wendy's for food: every single alternative is better.

But that email from Wreav would be fun.  *hit reply*  "Glad to hear that, Wreav.  So have you gotten back to your fertility doctor yet?  He's got great news for you!"

Yeah, I wrote that email and saved it in "Drafts", to be sent after the Reaper war is over. 

[Dendio1]

Dendio1 wrote...

TIM eyes do not mean somebody is indoctrinated. It just means they have reaper tech.

Possessing reaper tech often leads to indoctrination, but does not always, as we see with EDI.

Benezia did not have TIM eyes, but was indoctrinated. This proves that TIM eyes are not a side effect of indoctrination.

Benezia did not have reaper tech and did not have TIM eyes. This suggests that TIM eyes are attributed to possessing reaper tech rather than indoctrinations.


Not saying that IT is wrong or right, but the eye evidence is debunked from where I stand.

Shepard being merged with reaper tech during synthesis/control is been what altered his eyes rather than him being fully indoctrinated.

Most importantly, the codex does not mention a person's eye forming any relationship with indoctrination.

Modifié par Dendio1, 21 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[HellishFiend]

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

[Dendio1]

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

( bottom paged meh)

But more importantly, what do you think about it?

Modifié par Dendio1, 21 mai 2012 - 07:10 .

[vvDRUCILLAvv]

Hmmm, was the ending a hallucination you say. I don't know but I certainly thought I was hallucinating when I saw it.

[HellishFiend]

Dendio1 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

( bottom paged meh)

But more importantly, what do you think about it?

I think you're forgetting that there are plenty of cases where confirmed indoctrinated individuals do not have those eyes with the blue circles. I could list them, but really you should be able to think of at least three off the top of your head without any help. 

TIM had those eyes because of indirect contact with a very powerful indoctrination device, but we dont know much more than that. Bottom line is we dont have enough information to debunk it, but just like any well-written clue, it's not absolute confirmation either. 

[Rifneno]

Dendio1 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

( bottom paged meh)

But more importantly, what do you think about it?

That you should read the Evolution comics and the disturbing origin of his eyes.

I'd explain more, but I've got to leave in... 12 minutes ago.  

[HellishFiend]

vvDRUCILLAvv wrote...

Hmmm, was the ending a hallucination you say. I don't know but I certainly thought I was hallucinating when I saw it.

That was actually the intended effect, I think.  Bioware said they wanted to make you feel how your Shepard feels. 

[blooregard]

Dendio1 wrote...

TIM eyes do not mean somebody is indoctrinated. It just means they have reaper tech.

Possessing reaper tech often leads to indoctrination, but does not always, as we see with EDI.

Benezia did not have TIM eyes, but was indoctrinated. This proves that TIM eyes are not a side effect of indoctrination.

Benezia did not have reaper tech and did not have TIM eyes. This suggests that TIM eyes are attributed to possessing reaper tech rather than indoctrinations.


Not saying that IT is wrong or right, but the eye evidence is debunked from where I stand.

Weren't TIM's eyes a side effect from contact with that Reaper artifact during the first contact war? (the instant husk machine from what I've read).

Benezia did not have contact with such a device there for her eyes would not have been changed.

EDI is an AI. More specifically her "actual body" is the entire Normandy SR-2 the "body" she's seen in during ME3 is little more then a puppet she's channeling herself through.

I don't know if Eva was made with Reaper tech (though if she was made in the same fashion EDI was its likely) but if she was is it on the same level as EDI where its mostly software related or if Eva's body actually has Reaper upgrades to it I think that adds alot more evidence to support IT

[HellishFiend]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

( bottom paged meh)

But more importantly, what do you think about it?

I think you're forgetting that there are plenty of cases where confirmed indoctrinated individuals do not have those eyes with the blue circles. I could list them, but really you should be able to think of at least three off the top of your head without any help. 

TIM had those eyes because of indirect contact with a very powerful indoctrination device, but we dont know much more than that. Bottom line is we dont have enough information to debunk it, but just like any well-written clue, it's not absolute confirmation either. 

Actually I should clarify on this a bit more. What I mean to say is that while not everyone that is indoctrinated has the blue circle eyes, everyone that has the blue circle eyes is (ostensibly) indoctrinated. 

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

paxxton wrote...
Wasn't the Reaper IFF uninstalled during the retrofit?

I assume so. Even if it wasn't, I don't see how it could be plausibly applied to IT.

It was stated not to be, the IFF is still integrated, and is in fact part of why the Normandy is undetectable while scanning, due to the IFF and the Normandy's Tantalus Drive core, it is indistinguishable from a Reaper at long range, EDI states as much.

They didn't see the Normandy with Shepard onboard at close range in Vancouver. I think it was just to let him escape and the story to continue. Or was it not?

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 07:18 .

[dirtdiver32318]

I agree when I fist beat the game. I was confused as hell had to beat it again to realize something is wrong and that this isn't really my Shepard and he has to be dreaming or something. I stumbled on to Here with the IT. That is when I started seeing everything unfold things clicking back tithe first mass effect with the rachni queen talking about he oily shadows Pfft losers. Anyways IT if true which I dont see how it is but if it is true would make bioware and this series the greatest in history. Fooled me the first time it actually made me pick control ending then half way through the scene I said f that and restarted and destroyed. If idoctrination works bioware mastered it especially on me haha

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

RaidShock wrote...

paxxton wrote...
Wasn't the Reaper IFF uninstalled during the retrofit?

I assume so. Even if it wasn't, I don't see how it could be plausibly applied to IT.

It was stated not to be, the IFF is still integrated, and is in fact part of why the Normandy is undetectable while scanning, due to the IFF and the Normandy's Tantalus Drive core, it is indistinguishable from a Reaper at long range, EDI states as much.

They didn't see the Normandy with Shepard onboard at close range in Vancouver. I think it was just to let him escape and the story to continue. Or was it not?

I think I remember a tweet that said the reapers didnt "let" the Normandy escape, but I dunno.

It's possible the stealth tech protected them, but I do think the Reapers let them go on purpose because they didnt want to kill Shep. 

[blooregard]

dirtdiver32318 wrote...

I agree when I fist beat the game. I was confused as hell had to beat it again to realize something is wrong and that this isn't really my Shepard and he has to be dreaming or something. I stumbled on to Here with the IT. That is when I started seeing everything unfold things clicking back tithe first mass effect with the rachni queen talking about he oily shadows Pfft losers. Anyways IT if true which I dont see how it is but if it is true would make bioware and this series the greatest in history. Fooled me the first time it actually made me pick control ending then half way through the scene I said f that and restarted and destroyed. If idoctrination works bioware mastered it especially on me haha

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

YOU CANNOT FIGHT IT. YOUR MONEY WILL BE OURS

[plfranke]

I was listening to the conversations with The Illusive Man throughout the game and there seems to be hints from the get go that the Crucible might be a trap. In the very first conversation TIM tells us "You can't defeat the Reapers even with the Prothean data" That would mean even the crucible can't defeat the Reapers. And on Thessia if you accuse TIM of being indoctrinated he says "I could say the same thing about you fighting a battle you can't win" Very interesting lines. Btw no one finds the lines from Lance Henriksen as potential evidence for IT but instead are analyzing the stuff with the eyes? Seriously?

[blooregard]

plfranke wrote...

I was listening to the conversations with The Illusive Man throughout the game and there seems to be hints from the get go that the Crucible might be a trap. In the very first conversation TIM tells us "You can't defeat the Reapers even with the Prothean data" That would mean even the crucible can't defeat the Reapers. And on Thessia if you accuse TIM of being indoctrinated he says "I could say the same thing about you fighting a battle you can't win" Very interesting lines. Btw no one finds the lines from Lance Henriksen as potential evidence for IT but instead are analyzing the stuff with the eyes? Seriously?

Well if the crucible does turn out to be a trap we can always fall back on Joker's plans

1) time travel
2) teaching the Reapers to love.

Also if you're refering to the interview with Hendriksen I didn't find anything that supported or denied IT...care to point out the potential evidence?

[dirtdiver32318]

blooregard wrote...

dirtdiver32318 wrote...

I agree when I fist beat the game. I was confused as hell had to beat it again to realize something is wrong and that this isn't really my Shepard and he has to be dreaming or something. I stumbled on to Here with the IT. That is when I started seeing everything unfold things clicking back tithe first mass effect with the rachni queen talking about he oily shadows Pfft losers. Anyways IT if true which I dont see how it is but if it is true would make bioware and this series the greatest in history. Fooled me the first time it actually made me pick control ending then half way through the scene I said f that and restarted and destroyed. If idoctrination works bioware mastered it especially on me haha

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

YOU CANNOT FIGHT IT. YOUR MONEY WILL BE OURS

Oh it's sad bu it's true I will not deny it haha it was so beautiful I wish you could seen it like i do.  Damn your harbinger damn you:pinched:

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

You dont need to repost that on the new page. We saw it, thanks.

( bottom paged meh)

But more importantly, what do you think about it?

I think you're forgetting that there are plenty of cases where confirmed indoctrinated individuals do not have those eyes with the blue circles. I could list them, but really you should be able to think of at least three off the top of your head without any help. 

TIM had those eyes because of indirect contact with a very powerful indoctrination device, but we dont know much more than that. Bottom line is we dont have enough information to debunk it, but just like any well-written clue, it's not absolute confirmation either. 

Saren also had similar glowing blue eyes as well.

[plfranke]

blooregard wrote...

plfranke wrote...

I was listening to the conversations with The Illusive Man throughout the game and there seems to be hints from the get go that the Crucible might be a trap. In the very first conversation TIM tells us "You can't defeat the Reapers even with the Prothean data" That would mean even the crucible can't defeat the Reapers. And on Thessia if you accuse TIM of being indoctrinated he says "I could say the same thing about you fighting a battle you can't win" Very interesting lines. Btw no one finds the lines from Lance Henriksen as potential evidence for IT but instead are analyzing the stuff with the eyes? Seriously?

Well if the crucible does turn out to be a trap we can always fall back on Joker's plans

1) time travel
2) teaching the Reapers to love.

Also if you're refering to the interview with Hendriksen I didn't find anything that supported or denied IT...care to point out the potential evidence?

He said that there was a problem with the abruptness of the game, that normally when a player loses the game just shuts off and it's over but it didn't work with this game. We have no current knowledge of a losing situation in this game even with the worst possible EMS. That can only mean that indoctrination theory is true and control and synthesis are actually losing options. Either that or he thought that the ending was so terrible that everyone lost in the end lol

[blooregard]

plfranke wrote...

blooregard wrote...

plfranke wrote...

I was listening to the conversations with The Illusive Man throughout the game and there seems to be hints from the get go that the Crucible might be a trap. In the very first conversation TIM tells us "You can't defeat the Reapers even with the Prothean data" That would mean even the crucible can't defeat the Reapers. And on Thessia if you accuse TIM of being indoctrinated he says "I could say the same thing about you fighting a battle you can't win" Very interesting lines. Btw no one finds the lines from Lance Henriksen as potential evidence for IT but instead are analyzing the stuff with the eyes? Seriously?

Well if the crucible does turn out to be a trap we can always fall back on Joker's plans

1) time travel
2) teaching the Reapers to love.

Also if you're refering to the interview with Hendriksen I didn't find anything that supported or denied IT...care to point out the potential evidence?

He said that there was a problem with the abruptness of the game, that normally when a player loses the game just shuts off and it's over but it didn't work with this game. We have no current knowledge of a losing situation in this game even with the worst possible EMS. That can only mean that indoctrination theory is true and control and synthesis are actually losing options. Either that or he thought that the ending was so terrible that everyone lost in the end lol

I'd be willing to support the second option. I mean we have another rewrite of lore, destruction of the one thing that made mass effect unique, your squad mates left to starve, everyone trapped on one planet, Shepard dead, and some stupid kid telling us the Reaper's purpose is probably the worst one they can think of.

Besides seeing Hackett's VA say the ending was bad is nothing compared to when TOM says your ending is weak.

[Bill Casey]

www.youtube.com/watch




There was a hole...





You can just walk over it...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 21 mai 2012 - 07:46 .

[Salient Archer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

If we were to consider that ME:Cerberus was an idea the reapers gave Jack Harper [as Cerberus only came to exist after he had contact with the Arch Monolith] what are some of the parallels and motifs we can draw from the name?

Well the most popular beliefs say that Cerberus was the three headed guardian of the underworld, He is the son of Echidna [who was half woman, half serpent/demon] and Typhon [a fire breathing giant even the Gods feared].

Each one of his heads representing either birth, life and death or the past, present and future. Hmm, what else in the mass effect trilogy also represents the idea of things that are related but with distinct differences or stages.

Obviously the imagery of three is rich with ME:Cerberus, considering their logo is made up of three unique parts, the illusive man has three brightly coloured orbs in his eyes [although these eyes were created by contact with the Reaper artefact] and even the Cerberus Skunkworks emblem from ME has the three motif going for it.

In Greek mythology, It is said that Cerberus only feasted on the flesh of the living and hence only the undead could enter the underworld but yet none of them could leave.

Hercules final mission was to trap Cerberus as punishment for killing his own children [he was driven mad by Hera at the time] to successfully take down Cerberus he had to be initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries so he could learn how to navigate in and out of the underworld untouched.

By the way Elusinian evolved into the word elusive "difficult to catch".

Once Herc meet up with Hades he was told he could have Cerberus but only if he could take the beast down without weapons, Hercules suceded. Hercules {with Cerberus on his back} travelled back to the mortal realm and presented Cerberus to King Eurystheus, the king not expecting Hercules to be capable of the task was so terrified of Hercules and the beast that he asked Hercules to return it to the underworld and in some versions this act also cleansed Hecules of any remnants of his madness.

Anyway, just some food for thought and hopefully debate.

Would like to point out, the name Cerberus came from TIM's Manifesto, in which he called for "A cerberus to watch from the Charon relay" hence he was invoking the symbolism of Charon and Pluto and greek myth.

It's interesting how TIM [or atleast BioWare] are referencing the underworld in each one of those cases.

Charon - the ferryman of the newly dead souls, who helped tem travel accross the river Styx and Acheron.
Pluto - The god of the underworld.
Cerberus - Guardian of the underworld, who would only let the dead enter [one way or another] but never let them return.

[blooregard]

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

If we were to consider that ME:Cerberus was an idea the reapers gave Jack Harper [as Cerberus only came to exist after he had contact with the Arch Monolith] what are some of the parallels and motifs we can draw from the name?

Well the most popular beliefs say that Cerberus was the three headed guardian of the underworld, He is the son of Echidna [who was half woman, half serpent/demon] and Typhon [a fire breathing giant even the Gods feared].

Each one of his heads representing either birth, life and death or the past, present and future. Hmm, what else in the mass effect trilogy also represents the idea of things that are related but with distinct differences or stages.

Obviously the imagery of three is rich with ME:Cerberus, considering their logo is made up of three unique parts, the illusive man has three brightly coloured orbs in his eyes [although these eyes were created by contact with the Reaper artefact] and even the Cerberus Skunkworks emblem from ME has the three motif going for it.

In Greek mythology, It is said that Cerberus only feasted on the flesh of the living and hence only the undead could enter the underworld but yet none of them could leave.

Hercules final mission was to trap Cerberus as punishment for killing his own children [he was driven mad by Hera at the time] to successfully take down Cerberus he had to be initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries so he could learn how to navigate in and out of the underworld untouched.

By the way Elusinian evolved into the word elusive "difficult to catch".

Once Herc meet up with Hades he was told he could have Cerberus but only if he could take the beast down without weapons, Hercules suceded. Hercules {with Cerberus on his back} travelled back to the mortal realm and presented Cerberus to King Eurystheus, the king not expecting Hercules to be capable of the task was so terrified of Hercules and the beast that he asked Hercules to return it to the underworld and in some versions this act also cleansed Hecules of any remnants of his madness.

Anyway, just some food for thought and hopefully debate.

Would like to point out, the name Cerberus came from TIM's Manifesto, in which he called for "A cerberus to watch from the Charon relay" hence he was invoking the symbolism of Charon and Pluto and greek myth.

It's interesting how TIM [or atleast BioWare] are referencing the underworld in each one of those cases.

Charon - the ferryman of the newly dead souls, who helped tem travel accross the river Styx and Acheron.
Pluto - The god of the underworld.
Cerberus - Guardian of the underworld, who would only let the dead enter [one way or another] but never let them return.

If I recall correctly wasn't everyone that came in contact with that artifact eventually turned into a pro*insert species here* or at least gain a disliking of other species?

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Arian Dynas wrote...

D.Sharrah, OneWithTheAssasins, if you guys feel the need to post my theories on Bioware's itinerary, feel free, either that or I will do it myself.

It would be an honor posting your wise posts to the IT ignorant.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Arian Dynas wrote...

And there are people out there who beleive who the president is really has a genuine effect on the direction the economy takes.

Doesn't mean they're right.

Dude, I respect you so much more now.