55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

comrade gando wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So what makes Shepard the perfect organic anyway?

well.. nothing I know of. as far as I know he's just an ordinary man, forced into extraordinary circumstances. however these literal endings make it seem as though he is incapable of being indoctrinated, or manipulated in some way. I don't buy it, there's far too much unexplained strangeness going on especially in the last 20 minutes that REQUIRE an explanation of some sort.

Well, the Catalyst suggested that Shepard was the perfect organic, not me. And I'm wondering why. Surely there have been other "cyborgs" with a mixture of synethic and organic before but we never learn what seperates Shepard from everyone else. We never learn why Shepard is special or why Harbinger has such an interest. And does it not creep anyone out to hear the Catalyst speak with both ManShep and FemShep's voices? I don't know, something is missing. That's still the biggest lingering question, in my mind.

[masster blaster]

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

Also I thinks that" why the Reapers try to convince Shepard that they were not bad because they FINALY KNEW WHAT THE MEANING OF FEAR IS.

Also is it possible that Harbinger created the AI catalyst ot convinve Shepard that the Catalyst created the Reapers and to give Shepard a sob story about why the Reapers do this?

[FeralEwok]

leonia42 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So what makes Shepard the perfect organic anyway?

well.. nothing I know of. as far as I know he's just an ordinary man, forced into extraordinary circumstances. however these literal endings make it seem as though he is incapable of being indoctrinated, or manipulated in some way. I don't buy it, there's far too much unexplained strangeness going on especially in the last 20 minutes that REQUIRE an explanation of some sort.

Well, the Catalyst suggested that Shepard was the perfect organic, not me. And I'm wondering why. Surely there have been other "cyborgs" with a mixture of synethic and organic before but we never learn what seperates Shepard from everyone else. We never learn why Shepard is special or why Harbinger has such an interest. And does it not creep anyone out to hear the Catalyst speak with both ManShep and FemShep's voices? I don't know, something is missing. That's still the biggest lingering question, in my mind.

The importance of Shepard to the audience seeped into the narrative. No longer are they special because they are just a normal soldier pushed to extrodinary limits. Now they are special because that way you can have them do things that are "biggerer and betterer" 

I don't bash all of BW's writting, but the importance of Shepard at the very end irritated me.

[comrade gando]

leonia42 wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

So what makes Shepard the perfect organic anyway?

well.. nothing I know of. as far as I know he's just an ordinary man, forced into extraordinary circumstances. however these literal endings make it seem as though he is incapable of being indoctrinated, or manipulated in some way. I don't buy it, there's far too much unexplained strangeness going on especially in the last 20 minutes that REQUIRE an explanation of some sort.

Well, the Catalyst suggested that Shepard was the perfect organic, not me. And I'm wondering why. Surely there have been other "cyborgs" with a mixture of synethic and organic before but we never learn what seperates Shepard from everyone else. We never learn why Shepard is special or why Harbinger has such an interest. And does it not creep anyone out to hear the Catalyst speak with both ManShep and FemShep's voices? I don't know, something is missing. That's still the biggest lingering question, in my mind.

yes! thank you for pointing that out. ok why would the devs say: "the catalysts voice... GET IN HERE KID... the catalyst's voice *smacks the kid* is going to be voiced over by both male shepard and female shepard, because (insert reason)."

if you play a mshep, fshep doesn't exist in your story, and vice versa.. why..who..what... why?

[Andromidius]

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

[jgibson14352]

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

hes even more unique considering his almost supernatuaral strong will. the only reason he survived the beacon on eden prime was because he was so strong-willed (as stated by Liara). when Harbinger says "we will break you", hes most likely referring to his will (ie indoctrinate him). but if the devs wanted to, they could just say shepard cant be indoctrinated because of his strong will

[masster blaster]

Oh and when Bioware added the new dialogue with the catalyst why couldn't Shepard say but "I made peace with our Synthetics and Organics trying to kill each other. So why should I take your offer on Synthesis in which case we united together just to stop YOU from killing our Family's and friends so that they won't become the NEXT REAPER.

oh and If I found out that the Catalyst was connected to the Citadel I would have ordered Hackett to destroy the Citadel since it"s clear to me that the Catalyst lives in on the Citadel in which case it is not a Reapers so why does it say in Control that Shepard becomes a Reaper in which case the Catalyst is not a Reaper.

It would have made a great Reneged option if you could threaten the Catalyst to call off the Reapers or i will KILL YOU and just to rub it in the Catalyst face Oh and if you die then the Reapers can be free from your Control and won't have to take orders from you and can live out their lives in peace.

[Ravereth]

masster blaster wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

magnetite wrote...

BTW I believe that the reaper from the control ending is not Shepard, Shepard is now just a part of this reaper, maybe its mind...

Does seem that way, when the camera shows Shepard in the Control ending, it pans out, and we see a Reaper. Watch for it, when he starts saying "eternal, infinite, immortal...".

"Shepard" pretty much admits it during the speech anyway, by talking about 'the man I was'.

o and did you all notice that when Hackett contact Shepard the only thing Shepard says to Hackett is I.. but then the rest of it is in Shepard's head because if you listen carefully you can hear Shepard talking ot his/herself.

Unfortunately only in the MaleShep version 

What do you mean only the Male version. both of them after they say I they start talking to themselfs in their own heads listen to the conversation after Anderson dies.

Do you mean what they say or how they say it? 

[masster blaster]

jgibson14352 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

hes even more unique considering his almost supernatuaral strong will. the only reason he survived the beacon on eden prime was because he was so strong-willed (as stated by Liara). when Harbinger says "we will break you", hes most likely referring to his will (ie indoctrinate him). but if the devs wanted to, they could just say shepard cant be indoctrinated because of his strong will

listen it's just what I said on this page the Reapers are starting to learn the Word Fear because of Commander Shepard, so they want Shepard on their side because they know that Shepard was goning to kick their A** with the Whole galaxy on his/her side..

[Andromidius]

jgibson14352 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

hes even more unique considering his almost supernatuaral strong will. the only reason he survived the beacon on eden prime was because he was so strong-willed (as stated by Liara). when Harbinger says "we will break you", hes most likely referring to his will (ie indoctrinate him). but if the devs wanted to, they could just say shepard cant be indoctrinated because of his strong will

I'm fine with him being highly resistant to it.  But no-one could hold off forever.  If thousand year old Asari can succum, how can a 30 something Human who might not even have Biotics to protect themself?

[masster blaster]

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

magnetite wrote...

BTW I believe that the reaper from the control ending is not Shepard, Shepard is now just a part of this reaper, maybe its mind...

Does seem that way, when the camera shows Shepard in the Control ending, it pans out, and we see a Reaper. Watch for it, when he starts saying "eternal, infinite, immortal...".

"Shepard" pretty much admits it during the speech anyway, by talking about 'the man I was'.

o and did you all notice that when Hackett contact Shepard the only thing Shepard says to Hackett is I.. but then the rest of it is in Shepard's head because if you listen carefully you can hear Shepard talking ot his/herself.

Unfortunately only in the MaleShep version 

What do you mean only the Male version. both of them after they say I they start talking to themselfs in their own heads listen to the conversation after Anderson dies.

Do you mean what they say or how they say it? 

Both.

[jgibson14352]

Andromidius wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

hes even more unique considering his almost supernatuaral strong will. the only reason he survived the beacon on eden prime was because he was so strong-willed (as stated by Liara). when Harbinger says "we will break you", hes most likely referring to his will (ie indoctrinate him). but if the devs wanted to, they could just say shepard cant be indoctrinated because of his strong will

I'm fine with him being highly resistant to it.  But no-one could hold off forever.  If thousand year old Asari can succum, how can a 30 something Human who might not even have Biotics to protect themself?

i agree, even if it would be easy for him to fight off, the effects would still be there, and the reapers would sure as **** try. point is, unless bioware either straight up denies it or drops some serious hints at SDCC, this may be my last ME playthrough

Modifié par jgibson14352, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:21 .

[Ravereth]

masster blaster wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

What do you mean only the Male version. both of them after they say I they start talking to themselfs in their own heads listen to the conversation after Anderson dies.

Do you mean what they say or how they say it? 

Both.

There is nothing strange in FemShep's voice , but MaleShep's voice coincides with his groaning.

EDIT: AAAAA QUOTE PYRAMID!

Modifié par Ravereth, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[masster blaster]

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

magnetite wrote...

BTW I believe that the reaper from the control ending is not Shepard, Shepard is now just a part of this reaper, maybe its mind...

Does seem that way, when the camera shows Shepard in the Control ending, it pans out, and we see a Reaper. Watch for it, when he starts saying "eternal, infinite, immortal...".

"Shepard" pretty much admits it during the speech anyway, by talking about 'the man I was'.

o and did you all notice that when Hackett contact Shepard the only thing Shepard says to Hackett is I.. but then the rest of it is in Shepard's head because if you listen carefully you can hear Shepard talking ot his/herself.

Unfortunately only in the MaleShep version 

What do you mean only the Male version. both of them after they say I they start talking to themselfs in their own heads listen to the conversation after Anderson dies.

Do you mean what they say or how they say it? 

Both.

There is nothing strange in FemShep's voice , but MaleShep's voice coincides with his groaning.

Can you provided me with a link to See if Female Shepard does the same thing as Shepard once Anderson Dies.

And if there is nothing that i can connect to I will stop.

[masster blaster]

jgibson14352 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

jgibson14352 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

As a person and as a symbol, Shepard is unique.

However, biologically?  Shepard is normal (ignoring the implants, which aren't unique).  There's no reason why Shep would be immune to indoctrination, and plenty of reasons why Shep would be more likely to become indoctrinated.

hes even more unique considering his almost supernatuaral strong will. the only reason he survived the beacon on eden prime was because he was so strong-willed (as stated by Liara). when Harbinger says "we will break you", hes most likely referring to his will (ie indoctrinate him). but if the devs wanted to, they could just say shepard cant be indoctrinated because of his strong will

I'm fine with him being highly resistant to it.  But no-one could hold off forever.  If thousand year old Asari can succum, how can a 30 something Human who might not even have Biotics to protect themself?

i agree, even if it would be easy for him to fight off, the effects would still be there, and the reapers would sure as **** try. point is, unless bioware either straight up denies it or drops some serious hints at SDCC, this may be my last ME playthrough

listen it's just what I said on this page the Reapers are starting to
learn the Word Fear because of Commander Shepard, so they want Shepard
on their side because they know that Shepard was going to kick their
A** with the Whole galaxy on his/her side..

[comrade gando]

let me shift gears, I recall a tweet at one point from bioware a looong time ago (don't have the link I'm a putz). bioware was linking scannable bar codes to give hints to what's to come in ME3 (this is way pre-ME3).

They released several scannable bar codes that revealed images of what's to come, and so far they have all been true.

the final barcode that they released via their twitter (I think it was), revealed the image of a red fish. a red herring actually. red herring is a literary technique to signify that something is not right, something in the plot is place there specifically to mislead people.

Red Herring

and that was the last image they released. bioware could be up to something big, or those tweets could be a red herring of their own... I won't know until later at least... and I will either praise this series as the all time best series I've ever played... or cast it down as the biggest gaming disappointment I've ever seen...

p.s. here's an article about it I just googled just now, not the actual thing tho

Modifié par comrade gando, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:31 .

[llbountyhunter]

Its not just Shepard who's special in the story, its humans in general, they have genetic diversity that other species lack. And Actually when you think about it humans seem to be a bit more resistant to indoctrination than others. Take TIM and grayson for example, both able to maintain a large part of themselves free from the effects of indoc for prolonged periods of time.

And Shepard a human that stands out from the rest.

[jgibson14352]

masster blaster wrote...

listen it's just what I said on this page the Reapers are starting to
learn the Word Fear because of Commander Shepard, so they want Shepard
on their side because they know that Shepard was going to kick their
A** with the Whole galaxy on his/her side..

its implied throughout the series, and even flat out said by admiral hackett that "we cannot defeat the reapers conventionally". its obvioius on priority earth that even the united galaxy (hammer, sword, and shield) are getting their *sses kicked. remember how at the FOB, barely 50% of hammer shows up? the crucible was the last hope

[Andromidius]

jgibson14352 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

listen it's just what I said on this page the Reapers are starting to
learn the Word Fear because of Commander Shepard, so they want Shepard
on their side because they know that Shepard was going to kick their
A** with the Whole galaxy on his/her side..

its implied throughout the series, and even flat out said by admiral hackett that "we cannot defeat the reapers conventionally". its obvioius on priority earth that even the united galaxy (hammer, sword, and shield) are getting their *sses kicked. remember how at the FOB, barely 50% of hammer shows up? the crucible was the last hope

I really need to work on that 'unconventional victory' video...

[Ravereth]

masster blaster wrote...

Can you provided me with a link to See if Female Shepard does the same thing as Shepard once Anderson Dies.

And if there is nothing that i can connect to I will stop.

Here you are

[jgibson14352]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Its not just Shepard who's special in the story, its humans in general, they have genetic diversity that other species lack. And Actually when you think about it humans seem to be a bit more resistant to indoctrination than others. Take TIM and grayson for example, both able to maintain a large part of themselves free from the effects of indoc for prolonged periods of time.

And Shepard a human that stands out from the rest.

 i actually praised ME for not portraying humans as special, just another race in the galaxy. the genetic diversity was explained in the novels as a temporary thing that happens to all species before they identify themselves as not a nation or ethnicity but as a species. gene pools converge and dominant traits become staples of a species. as for indoctrination, humans have no more a capacity to resist than other species, or at least the asari. benezia was able to resist after countless days and months IN sovereign, and shiala was able to also. saren was freed at the very end of ME1 as well

[Leonia]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Its not just Shepard who's special in the story, its humans in general, they have genetic diversity that other species lack. And Actually when you think about it humans seem to be a bit more resistant to indoctrination than others. Take TIM and grayson for example, both able to maintain a large part of themselves free from the effects of indoc for prolonged periods of time.

And Shepard a human that stands out from the rest.

But once again, the Catalyst says specifically that Shepard is the Perfect Organic. Why?

And we can't know that humans are more resistant than any other species, not enough data to draw that conclusion.

Good memory on the red herring image but I doubt we can draw anything from that other than "something's still missing about this story".

Modifié par leonia42, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:39 .

[EpyonX3]

masster blaster wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Shepard intrigues the Reapers.

He came back from the dead which is pretty amazing.

He has united the galaxy and is the only man who can potentially stop the Reaper threat.

He's the perfect target for indoctrination, as, under Reaper control, he can convince the people he has recruited to the cause to do whatever the Reapers want. Shepard is the expert, why wouldn't they believe him.

The whole game is the Reapers trying to indoctrinate him...it's the only explanation,

Also I thinks that" why the Reapers try to convince Shepard that they were not bad because they FINALY KNEW WHAT THE MEANING OF FEAR IS.

Also is it possible that Harbinger created the AI catalyst ot convinve Shepard that the Catalyst created the Reapers and to give Shepard a sob story about why the Reapers do this?

I presented that here before. No one believed me. They're not scared of one man or one galaxy worth of fleets. They're scared of the one unknown variable, the Crucible. Sure they knew about it but they didn't know about what it did. Even the Catalyst admits that the designs have evolved and organics are more resourceful than they thought.

If the Reapers were not afraiid, they wouldn't have taken the Citadel and gather around it to protect it like they did.

[Simon_Says]

EpyonX3 wrote...

I presented that here before. No one believed me. They're not scared of one man or one galaxy worth of fleets. They're scared of the one unknown variable, the Crucible. Sure they knew about it but they didn't know about what it did. Even the Catalyst admits that the designs have evolved and organics are more resourceful than they thought.

If the Reapers were not afraiid, they wouldn't have taken the Citadel and gather around it to protect it like they did.

Unless the Crucible was a trap laid by the reapers all along, for some reason. But that's an entirely different can of speculating worms.

leonia42 wrote...

But once again, the Catalyst says specifically that Shepard is the Perfect Organic. Why?

And we can't know that humans are more resistant than any other species, not enough data to draw that conclusion.

Good
memory on the red herring image but I doubt we can draw anything from
that other than "something's still missing about this story".

Does it actually say that Shepard is the perfect organic? All I recall is it saying that organics seek to perfect themselves through technology, and that synthesis would perfect organics by making them partly synthetic.

Which by the way makes me wonder if Bioware's writing staff never heard of the Dune series before...

Modifié par Simon_Says, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:48 .

[masster blaster]

Ravereth wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Can you provided me with a link to See if Female Shepard does the same thing as Shepard once Anderson Dies.

And if there is nothing that i can connect to I will stop.

Here you are

okay so they both do the same thing it"s just that I thought that they both do the same thing just I never played as Female Shepard before so ya. hate me if you want it"s just I haven"t go to yet because I wanted to finish the Male story first then start the Female one.