Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


55528 réponses à ce sujet

#36451
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

*snip*

I've never read the books and I have a solid picture of whats going on o.O
I have Bought the books though, just got them a couple days ago, working through the first one in my spare time.

Do yourself a favor and don't read deception. The only good thing I can say about that book is that it lives up to its name.


Heard about that. Only bought Revelation, Ascension, and Retribution. Any other noteworthy ones I'm missing?


Well, the comic books are good, even if the art is a bit dogy in one or two.

#36452
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Shall I quantify that then by saying "good" literature?

But either way;

-Saren was on Virmire because he was overseeing the creation of his Krogan army. I am sure someone who has read the book he was featured in (I think it was Redemption? Deception? I forget, so many that end in tion.) will correct me if I am wrong, but Saren never struck me as the sort to delegate things he felt were important.


It was in Revelation. In it we learn that Saren would never delegate as he doesn't trust others. He's happy to use individuals to further his goals but will never leave anyone else in charge, Hence why he became indoctrinated in the first place. Saren knew the risks of coming into contact with Sovereign but its importance to furthering his own ambitions outweighed that risk.

Also, it's not a -tion prefix it's an -ion prefix (Evolution, Incursion, Insurection, Ascension, Retribution, Inquisition, Conviction, Invasion)


I notice that Deception isn't on that list. ;)

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:02 .


#36453
SubAstris

SubAstris
  • Members
  • 1 721 messages

Salient Archer wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, I realized the major thing that seperates us from the conspiracy theorists we are pegged as so regularly.

In real life, coincidences DO happen.

They don't in fiction. It's why you can't apply Occam's Razor to fiction, because there is artifice here, there IS a designer and a grand design, there IS a plan, which means that sometimes the simplest explanation is not necessarily the one the author intended.


You need to pick up books more often. Concidences do happen in literature. But usually its due to poor writting and plotholes, in video game the problem of having none of them is even greater for many reasons: Theres more then 1 people working on the plot, theres people working on art asset that are not the same making the plot.

There are plotholes all over Mass effect 1, while not as anti climatic they are there:

-Why did saren wait at virmire for shepard, when he had the second beacon himself(hello this one can be placed as coincidence, saren was still there and shepard was there at same time !!!!)?
-why did he not simply destroy it after reading it?
-Why did sovereign decide to fight shepard on foot after the door of the citadel where open already, meaning saren had failed and shepard mission was over, yet sovereign was beating the fleet on his own? Most retarded reaper of all time?
-The evidence against saren is a voice recording in the ages when spaceship can zoom across the galaxy we cant counterfeith voices recording anymore? Voice recording still passes as evidence? A voice recording now would take months to legitimize in court, if it was the only evidence?


Shall I quantify that then by saying "good" literature?

But either way;

-Saren was on Virmire because he was overseeing the creation of his Krogan army. I am sure someone who has read the book he was featured in (I think it was Redemption? Deception? I forget, so many that end in tion.) will correct me if I am wrong, but Saren never struck me as the sort to delegate things he felt were important.


Tbh, you shouldn't have to read the books to get a complete picture of what is going on

TBH you don't actually need too, but it's doing yourself a disservice as a dedicated ME fan if you don't. However, Saren's character, motives and methods are spelt out very clearly in the games. In ME1 I'm positive there's a line about how he always works alone.


I don't think you can really dictate what does or doesn't entail a "good" fan. I just like ME for the games, and the games should be self-serving; if one cannot understand character's motives for the games themselves, then BW have not done their job probably.

#36454
Kappa Neko

Kappa Neko
  • Members
  • 2 328 messages

elegolas1 wrote...

i just finished my me1 playthrough for the extended cut and i noticed in the final confrontation with saren when soverign takes control of his body through the implants, the edges of the screen are overlayed with a red-black aura unique to that scene
it was very reminiscent of the oily shadows in the TIM confrontation in me3, further suggesting indoctrination/ shepards mind reconstructing the scene

if this observation has already been brought up or is rendered obsolete by the extended cut, forgive me as i have yet to play it
i also could not get screen shots sadly

It simply means that the reapers try to indoctrinate Shep while talking to TIM. But that happens before he reaches the catalyst. Once he does, the new solution presents itself.

I really wanted to believe the IT, but I can't do that anymore. I respect that some people continue to cling to it. But to me BW clearly debunked it by extending the endings.
None of it is a hallucination. The catalysts words are meant to be the truth.
It is simply an AI that was programmed to solve a problem. Neither the catalyst nor the reapers are evil. They simply execute a task.
This may be a let-down explanation. I wanted the reapers to remain sadistic, lazy killing machines. But as feared they turned out to be mere puppets. But I can live with that. Because now that the solution makes more sense thanks to the EC, I find it pretty interesting and even logic from a AI's point of view.

To me the 4th ending does not prove anything.
Why does the catalyst speak in Harbinger's voice?
Well, as the catalyst explains, he basically is the reapers. He is their mind, so to speak. They are linked. The reapers have no will of their own. They have the will of the catalyst.
This means that the reapers want the cycle to end, just like the catalyst.
The anger comes not from failing indoctrination but from Shepard refusal to solve the conflict once and for all.
Obviously the catalyst is not simply a cold machine. It does have a kind of moral code that must have been programmed by his creators. Otherwise the most simple solution would have been to just wipe out all organic life. But clearly it was programmed to keep both organics and synthetics alive. It is also capable of anger.
And this anger, which is also the reapers' anger, manifest when Shepard does the most stupid thing imaginable and refuses to end the cycle or even the conflict.

The whole catalyst situation is a very religious thing. Reminiscent of Buddhism.
Shepard is given the choice to end the cycle of suffering forever by synthesis.
The catalyst was programmed to approve of this solution.
IMO the catalyst reacts like an angry god displeased with the behavior of his creations. Shepard refuses paradise. He condemns the galaxy to repeat the cycle and the conflict forever.

The entire trilogy, the cycle itself, turned out to basically be one giant trial.
The catalyst didn't design it to be that way, but in the end it's what it was. Because Shepard turned into a savior, not only from destruction by the reapers but from the conflict itself.
The conflict being symbolic of human suffering in general.

The cycle needed to be almost impossible to break. Only by working together, resolving all conflicts to unite in one single goal did organic life deserve to be saved.
That's why the catalyst didn't protect Shepard to make it easier to reach that solution. No, he needed to prove that he was special. That this generation of organics was worthy.
There needed to be one hero whose essence would change all life in the galaxy.
Yes, it's total space magic religious symbolism now. But I actually kinda like it.

I know this is just my interpretation. But it has replaced the IT for me.

Modifié par Kappa Neko, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:05 .


#36455
Raistlin Majare 1992

Raistlin Majare 1992
  • Members
  • 2 101 messages

SubAstris wrote...

I don't think you can really dictate what does or doesn't entail a "good" fan. I just like ME for the games, and the games should be self-serving; if one cannot understand character's motives for the games themselves, then BW have not done their job probably.


1: He never said you were not a good fan for not reading the books, he said you were "doing yourself a disservice as a dedicated fan" and that sentence is more comparable to him recomending you read them if you like the universe.

2: Did anyone here say you needed to read the books/comics to understand the characters motivations? I for one hyavent read a single one of the books, but understand the plot and characters so that must mean Bioware did their job, right?

The books and comics are there to expand the universe and allow dedicated fans to learn new nuances and details about the characters and universe.

#36456
SubAstris

SubAstris
  • Members
  • 1 721 messages

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I don't think you can really dictate what does or doesn't entail a "good" fan. I just like ME for the games, and the games should be self-serving; if one cannot understand character's motives for the games themselves, then BW have not done their job probably.


1: He never said you were not a good fan for not reading the books, he said you were "doing yourself a disservice as a dedicated fan" and that sentence is more comparable to him recomending you read them if you like the universe.

2: Did anyone here say you needed to read the books/comics to understand the characters motivations? I for one hyavent read a single one of the books, but understand the plot and characters so that must mean Bioware did their job, right?

The books and comics are there to expand the universe and allow dedicated fans to learn new nuances and details about the characters and universe.



That seemed to be the implication of Arian's statement

#36457
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
  • Members
  • 660 messages

SubAstris wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, I realized the major thing that seperates us from the conspiracy theorists we are pegged as so regularly.

In real life, coincidences DO happen.

They don't in fiction. It's why you can't apply Occam's Razor to fiction, because there is artifice here, there IS a designer and a grand design, there IS a plan, which means that sometimes the simplest explanation is not necessarily the one the author intended.


You need to pick up books more often. Concidences do happen in literature. But usually its due to poor writting and plotholes, in video game the problem of having none of them is even greater for many reasons: Theres more then 1 people working on the plot, theres people working on art asset that are not the same making the plot.

There are plotholes all over Mass effect 1, while not as anti climatic they are there:

-Why did saren wait at virmire for shepard, when he had the second beacon himself(hello this one can be placed as coincidence, saren was still there and shepard was there at same time !!!!)?
-why did he not simply destroy it after reading it?
-Why did sovereign decide to fight shepard on foot after the door of the citadel where open already, meaning saren had failed and shepard mission was over, yet sovereign was beating the fleet on his own? Most retarded reaper of all time?
-The evidence against saren is a voice recording in the ages when spaceship can zoom across the galaxy we cant counterfeith voices recording anymore? Voice recording still passes as evidence? A voice recording now would take months to legitimize in court, if it was the only evidence?


Shall I quantify that then by saying "good" literature?

But either way;

-Saren was on Virmire because he was overseeing the creation of his Krogan army. I am sure someone who has read the book he was featured in (I think it was Redemption? Deception? I forget, so many that end in tion.) will correct me if I am wrong, but Saren never struck me as the sort to delegate things he felt were important.


Tbh, you shouldn't have to read the books to get a complete picture of what is going on

TBH you don't actually need too, but it's doing yourself a disservice as a dedicated ME fan if you don't. However, Saren's character, motives and methods are spelt out very clearly in the games. In ME1 I'm positive there's a line about how he always works alone.


I don't think you can really dictate what does or doesn't entail a "good" fan. I just like ME for the games, and the games should be self-serving; if one cannot understand character's motives for the games themselves, then BW have not done their job probably.

I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.

#36458
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
  • Members
  • 660 messages

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

*snip*

I've never read the books and I have a solid picture of whats going on o.O
I have Bought the books though, just got them a couple days ago, working through the first one in my spare time.

Do yourself a favor and don't read deception. The only good thing I can say about that book is that it lives up to its name.


Heard about that. Only bought Revelation, Ascension, and Retribution. Any other noteworthy ones I'm missing?

I'm quite partial to the comics, especially evolution as it offers quite a nice backstory for the Illusive man (Jack Harper) and Saren.

#36459
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Shall I quantify that then by saying "good" literature?

But either way;

-Saren was on Virmire because he was overseeing the creation of his Krogan army. I am sure someone who has read the book he was featured in (I think it was Redemption? Deception? I forget, so many that end in tion.) will correct me if I am wrong, but Saren never struck me as the sort to delegate things he felt were important.


It was in Revelation. In it we learn that Saren would never delegate as he doesn't trust others. He's happy to use individuals to further his goals but will never leave anyone else in charge, Hence why he became indoctrinated in the first place. Saren knew the risks of coming into contact with Sovereign but its importance to furthering his own ambitions outweighed that risk.

Also, it's not a -tion prefix it's an -ion prefix (Evolution, Incursion, Insurection, Ascension, Retribution, Inquisition, Conviction, Invasion)


I notice that Deception isn't on that list. ;)

Ahh Yes "Deception", we've dismissed this novel.

#36460
SubAstris

SubAstris
  • Members
  • 1 721 messages

Salient Archer wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, I realized the major thing that seperates us from the conspiracy theorists we are pegged as so regularly.

In real life, coincidences DO happen.

They don't in fiction. It's why you can't apply Occam's Razor to fiction, because there is artifice here, there IS a designer and a grand design, there IS a plan, which means that sometimes the simplest explanation is not necessarily the one the author intended.


You need to pick up books more often. Concidences do happen in literature. But usually its due to poor writting and plotholes, in video game the problem of having none of them is even greater for many reasons: Theres more then 1 people working on the plot, theres people working on art asset that are not the same making the plot.

There are plotholes all over Mass effect 1, while not as anti climatic they are there:

-Why did saren wait at virmire for shepard, when he had the second beacon himself(hello this one can be placed as coincidence, saren was still there and shepard was there at same time !!!!)?
-why did he not simply destroy it after reading it?
-Why did sovereign decide to fight shepard on foot after the door of the citadel where open already, meaning saren had failed and shepard mission was over, yet sovereign was beating the fleet on his own? Most retarded reaper of all time?
-The evidence against saren is a voice recording in the ages when spaceship can zoom across the galaxy we cant counterfeith voices recording anymore? Voice recording still passes as evidence? A voice recording now would take months to legitimize in court, if it was the only evidence?


Shall I quantify that then by saying "good" literature?

But either way;

-Saren was on Virmire because he was overseeing the creation of his Krogan army. I am sure someone who has read the book he was featured in (I think it was Redemption? Deception? I forget, so many that end in tion.) will correct me if I am wrong, but Saren never struck me as the sort to delegate things he felt were important.


Tbh, you shouldn't have to read the books to get a complete picture of what is going on

TBH you don't actually need too, but it's doing yourself a disservice as a dedicated ME fan if you don't. However, Saren's character, motives and methods are spelt out very clearly in the games. In ME1 I'm positive there's a line about how he always works alone.


I don't think you can really dictate what does or doesn't entail a "good" fan. I just like ME for the games, and the games should be self-serving; if one cannot understand character's motives for the games themselves, then BW have not done their job probably.

I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


Ok, I understand

#36461
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
  • Guests
The Mass Effect Wiki lists Aequitas as the “Home to the famous Iron Canyons," with “reddish iron oxide dust (hematite) covering much of its surface” and a surface temperature of -128.5 fahrenheit. So two clues of the above refer to Aequitas.

The London secret service thing is believed to relate to indoctrinated Coats.

The red herring could be the presumed dark energy plot or the current endings.

#36462
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Salient Archer wrote...
I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


No, I believe I gave the implication that he's not a good fan.

I mean, how could he be? He's so floppy and bendy and not flat, and he doesn't fit in your hand so you can't whip him back and forth too well.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:18 .


#36463
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Sareth Cousland wrote...

The Mass Effect Wiki lists Aequitas as the “Home to the famous Iron Canyons," with “reddish iron oxide dust (hematite) covering much of its surface” and a surface temperature of -128.5 fahrenheit. So two clues of the above refer to Aequitas.

The London secret service thing is believed to relate to indoctrinated Coats.

The red herring could be the presumed dark energy plot or the current endings.


The wiki is wrong apparently.

Explain the Coates thing for us please? I don't get what you mean.

Either or. Hellish is a big fan of saying Dark Energy was an intentional leak meant to throw us off. Not sure what to say on that count. Besides, what reason would they have for keeping the endings as they are secret to the point that they must make red herrings for them?

#36464
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...
I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


No, I believe I gave the implication that he's not a good fan.

I mean, how could he be? He's so floppy and bendy and not flat, and he doesn't fit in your hand so you can't whip him back and forth too well.

lol. Well I hope for his sake he's none of those things! Otherwise he might have more pressing things to be worried about than wether he's a "good" ME fan or not.

#36465
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...
I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


No, I believe I gave the implication that he's not a good fan.

I mean, how could he be? He's so floppy and bendy and not flat, and he doesn't fit in your hand so you can't whip him back and forth too well.

lol. Well I hope for his sake he's none of those things! Otherwise he might have more pressing things to be worried about than wether he's a "good" ME fan or not.


Pressing you say? Well that might make him flat, not too sure about rigid though.

Still wouldn't fit in my hand though. Unless we pressed him from the top? :o

#36466
Salient Archer

Salient Archer
  • Members
  • 660 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...
I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


No, I believe I gave the implication that he's not a good fan.

I mean, how could he be? He's so floppy and bendy and not flat, and he doesn't fit in your hand so you can't whip him back and forth too well.

lol. Well I hope for his sake he's none of those things! Otherwise he might have more pressing things to be worried about than wether he's a "good" ME fan or not.


Pressing you say? Well that might make him flat, not too sure about rigid though.

Still wouldn't fit in my hand though. Unless we pressed him from the top? :o

True, but that might compress him like a jack-in-the-box, and the last thing you'd want is to enable SubAstris to terrify infants and young children.

#36467
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
  • Guests
1. Just noticed you're right, was a mistake in my source (quoted from an article).

2. You haven't heard the theory that Coats is an indoctrinated agent of the Reapers? It's from here on the boards - he is the one calling the troops back and saying Hammer has been wiped when there's survivors, for example. He has also been exposed to Reapers for a long time, and his sniping in Big Ben for three days was cited as not very credible. Besides, right now, he serves no useful purpose; his role could have been filled by Anderson. He also has the voice of Loghain and his only dialogue with Shepard alone is to remind him that the loss of a leader like Shep (e.g. through indoctrination) would be a severe blow to the resistance. I don't know if I think the theory has merit, but Coats somehow IS a dark character and serves no useful role.

3. I think the Dark Energy plot would have diminished the Reapers as villains as much as a Catalyst that degrades the Reapers to puppets (I don't think he does), so I prefer the chaos vs order / organics vs synthetics theme.

#36468
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Sareth Cousland wrote...

1. Just noticed you're right, was a mistake in my source (quoted from an article).

2. You haven't heard the theory that Coats is an indoctrinated agent of the Reapers? It's from here on the boards - he is the one calling the troops back and saying Hammer has been wiped when there's survivors, for example. He has also been exposed to Reapers for a long time, and his sniping in Big Ben for three days was cited as not very credible. Besides, right now, he serves no useful purpose; his role could have been filled by Anderson. He also has the voice of Loghain and his only dialogue with Shepard alone is to remind him that the loss of a leader like Shep (e.g. through indoctrination) would be a severe blow to the resistance. I don't know if I think the theory has merit, but Coats somehow IS a dark character and serves no useful role.

3. I think the Dark Energy plot would have diminished the Reapers as villains as much as a Catalyst that degrades the Reapers to puppets (I don't think he does), so I prefer the chaos vs order / organics vs synthetics theme.


I have heard the theory, I helped come up with it. I meant expand upon your REASONING connecting him and the UK intelligence services website. <_<

He does not have Simon Templeman as a voice actor, they do sound alike and the character model DOES look like Loghain, but they are not one and the same as far as voice acting. Coats (yes I am annoyed by that spelling, it just looks stupid) was voiced by Nich Boulton, the voice of Hawke.

Welll..... it would have deminished them LESS, since it doesn't really attempt to justify them, it still comes down to whether you feel the ends do justify the means or not.

Scientifically however? Yeah stupid plot.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .


#36469
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
  • Guests

Arian Dynas wrote...
I have heard the theory, I helped come up with it. I meant expand upon your REASONING. <_<

Welll..... it would have deminished them LESS, since it doesn't really attempt to justify them, it still comes down to whether you feel the ends do justify the means or not.

Scientifically however? Yeah stupid plot.


That's awesome. No offense meant, but I think you will see the relation between UK Intelligence Services and indoctrinated agents without explanation.

And in my opinion, any Reaper motive that is not purely selfish diminishes their quality as enemies, but that may certainly be up for debate.

#36470
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages

Jessica Merizan[/b]
@JessicaMerizan





Ok guys, not to promote distorted eating or anything, but I'm
going to stuff my face with Indian food now & play Skyrim


That's funny, those were my actions after completing the EC, I wonder if her reasons were the same as mine.

#36471
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...
I don't remember saying you weren't a good fan, I just said you were doing yourself a disservice by not reading them. The first three books are really good reads and offer a deeper insight into the ME universe but you can skip on deception.


No, I believe I gave the implication that he's not a good fan.

I mean, how could he be? He's so floppy and bendy and not flat, and he doesn't fit in your hand so you can't whip him back and forth too well.

lol. Well I hope for his sake he's none of those things! Otherwise he might have more pressing things to be worried about than wether he's a "good" ME fan or not.


Pressing you say? Well that might make him flat, not too sure about rigid though.

Still wouldn't fit in my hand though. Unless we pressed him from the top? :o

True, but that might compress him like a jack-in-the-box, and the last thing you'd want is to enable SubAstris to terrify infants and young children.


You mean he doesn't already? 

#36472
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
I have heard the theory, I helped come up with it. I meant expand upon your REASONING. <_<

Welll..... it would have deminished them LESS, since it doesn't really attempt to justify them, it still comes down to whether you feel the ends do justify the means or not.

Scientifically however? Yeah stupid plot.


That's awesome. No offense meant, but I think you will see the relation between UK Intelligence Services and indoctrinated agents without explanation.

And in my opinion, any Reaper motive that is not purely selfish diminishes their quality as enemies, but that may certainly be up for debate.


Oh, agents.

Cute.

And no real offense taken. And personally, I disagree with the "not purely selfish" thing, since, well, I created this theory;

It seems I need to drag out my own theory on the Reapers again, for the benefit of this thread, and for great justice.

Here is their beginning, in my humble opinion;

Millions of years ago, the evil alien lord Xenu..

Wait, wrong one. *pulls out the disc and snaps it in half* damn Scientologists...

Sorry about that;

Millions of years ago, when the Milky Way was still young, a species of carnivores arose to sentience, they were intelligent, murderously so, being far more canny than they prey they hunted. 

As they evolved, they developed a natural talent for both science, and war. They conquered their own planet, setting out into the Milky Way in their newly made ships, bristling with horrifying technology.

Planet after planet fell to them, as their empire grew, they mastered yet more wicked sciences, learning how to manipulate the minds of their enemies, how to render down one thing they had in surplus, bodies, into useable building material, they mastered use of the Mass Effect, discovered quantum shielding, and created the first Mass Relays to facillitate speedy travel from one end of their empire to another.

Soon they drew the attention of another, equally powerful foe, a species of insectoid aliens, known for their impressive technical skills, and their abilty as engineers, holding one of the most powerful navies in the galaxy.

The two species clashed with one another, horrifying weapons of war being designed and stolen by each, kinetic accelerator cannons finding themselves replaced with heat generating weapons, firing channels of superaccelerated liquid metal, deep cover agents being created from once trusted friends, forces turning on oneanother, fighters running kamikazi runs at light speed into the sides of powerful dreadnoughts and capital ships, a war that left scars on every world they fought, and eventually lost.

This dark race that arose to face their insectiod enemies was eventually pushed back to their homeworld, a dying, slowly withering rock, orbiting a dying star, a star due to finally end it's life in a massive conflagration that will take with it it's stony children, including their homeworld.

Desperation sets in, this violent race, desiring to see the continued existence of their species begins work on a method of saving their future.

Soon they realize all their hopes are for naught, there is no possible way for them to save themselves, they simply do not have the means to transport sufficient numbers of their population offworld, to survive  the vengeance of their enemies.

Then, one brilliant mind comes upon a soloution. Space and resources preclude the body from traveling, but nothing at all precludes the mind from doing so.

Their hope rekindled, they begin work upon the refit of the greatest of their flagships, turning it into the mightiest ship ever seen, a monster nearly three kilometers in length,  a suitable chariot for their species' collective intellect.

They incorporate their mightiest weapons, their most efficient and powerful kinetic barriers and engines, even developing an entirely new form of engine, creating areas of mass free space their flagship will "fall into" they pour all their resources into it, and find them insufficient.

They have run out of building materials.

But, not to be stopped, one of their most brilliant military minds comes to two realizations;

One, they won't need their bodies if they are transporting their minds with the ship, hence they can easily render them down for more building materials needed for the mind storage core.

And two, the ship, then if deprived of the crew needed to help provide building materials, will need someone to crew her, and if they should be attacked, or need to take a world to form their new homeworld, they will need groundtroops, an army.

They turn again to their grim technologies, and find the answer already prepared for them, they turn to their mental manipulation equipment, making it more efficient, and developing new, more effective ways to manipulate the body, as well as the mind, for they long ago mastered the technique of forging flesh as easily as metal.

Soon their great work is to be completed, they near the birth of the great ship that shall be the salvation of their race, taking them and their collective minds far from their dying home. The last minds are transferred into the completed ship, with their greatest military mind, whom is also their ruler, being the last to "board".

He joins his mind to the rest, and then something goes horribly wrong. Rather than maintaining a million distinct personalities, minds and psyches, they form into one horrifying gestalt, a single mind formed of many, a mind more horrible than all of their collective cruelties inflicted upon the galaxy, something perfect, and terrible in it's perfection.

A mind that belives itself to be the end of evolution, a single mind now, which has come to the realization that it is the child of an entire great species, a species which sacrificed everything for it's creation, it's perfection. A perfection it must share, this is the greatest achivement that it's species could form, nay that ANY species could possibly achive, the creation of a collective mind so great, so mighty, a mind that is immortal, not subject to the ravages of time, capable of leveling continents and cities with insulting ease, surely something so great MUST be perfection incarnate, surely this is what is must be to be a God, and as we all know, Gods, are perfect, and all others must find a way to achive this perfection, no all others must be MADE to become as perfect as this new being.

It will help all others ascend to it's level, or if they refuse, they will be forced. This new being will bring them perfection, their destiny, it will be a Harbinger of all they will become.

This new Harbinger, as it calls itself, first attacks their old enemies, causing great harm and massive damage before being driven off, nearly destroyed in it's own attempt, leading it to realize, that despite it's perfection, it remains subject to being killed. Therfore, it requires allies. The Harbinger attacks the remains of several of the old empire's enemies, forming new capital ships of the "worthy" enemies, ones as diverse, intellectual, and strong as its own progenitors, while lesser enemies lose their individuality to become Destroyers, and the animals of these broken planets, rather than being left to simply rot and go to waste, are rendered down into becoming the unintelligent Processing Ships and Troop Transports piloted by other, more worthy ships. 

Soon, even their greatest enemy, the insectoid species of engineers falls to their might, the first cycle having completed.

When at this point, the Harbinger comes to a realization. It has scoured the galaxy clean of advanced life, it could destroy all organic life now if it wished.

But that would deny future races the chance at perfection attained by it and it's compatriots. It makes a descision, they will allow organic life to thrive for a time, until it achives greatness as it's own species did, before they return and capture it in the apex of it's greatness, storing it in their new form, making way for other species to join their ranks, but they will need a method of control, a way to ensure their victory before the war has already begun, so that their technology might evolve along paths they understand and know, therefore they create the Mass Relay network, and the Citadel, taking their greatest enemy and repurposing them into the "Keepers" of this new Citadel, so that it's secrets may not be found, and as a final insult to the foe whom nearly drove them to extinction. Every cycle they extend their understanding with the great discoveries of the next species to join them, stripping worlds of their technology to study and understand, learning more of the universe, and ensuring they are prepared for yet more technologies designed by these younger races. They choose to leave behind one of the mightiest of their number, the second of their kind, formed by the Harbinger, the one known as Nazara, to be their vanguard in the next cycle, making the case that the second strongest of their number should be the first strike they make.

And thus, the new "Reapers" begin to gather in dark space, waiting for their crop of flesh to arise anew.  

  

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .


#36473
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

1. Just noticed you're right, was a mistake in my source (quoted from an article).

2. You haven't heard the theory that Coats is an indoctrinated agent of the Reapers? It's from here on the boards - he is the one calling the troops back and saying Hammer has been wiped when there's survivors, for example. He has also been exposed to Reapers for a long time, and his sniping in Big Ben for three days was cited as not very credible. Besides, right now, he serves no useful purpose; his role could have been filled by Anderson. He also has the voice of Loghain and his only dialogue with Shepard alone is to remind him that the loss of a leader like Shep (e.g. through indoctrination) would be a severe blow to the resistance. I don't know if I think the theory has merit, but Coats somehow IS a dark character and serves no useful role.

3. I think the Dark Energy plot would have diminished the Reapers as villains as much as a Catalyst that degrades the Reapers to puppets (I don't think he does), so I prefer the chaos vs order / organics vs synthetics theme.


Also, he does not have Simon Templeman as a voice actor, they do sound alike and the character model DOES look like Loghain, someone did a comparison and Coats looks like Loghain with his braids cut off, but they are not one and the same as far as voice acting. Coats (yes I am annoyed by that spelling, it just looks stupid) was voiced by Nich Boulton, the voice of Hawke.



#36474
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
  • Guests
"Cute"? You don't think it has relevance? I think it's a fair link, if by no means strong. Picked it up somewhere here and I thought it had merit if Coats was indeed indoctrinated.

Your story is a decent read, I like it better than the dark energy plot. Still, I am looking forward to what Bioware will come up with - if they do so at all. Tully Auckland's insistence that Commander Shepard's journey is at an end sounds very final.

#36475
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*

Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
  • Guests

Arian Dynas wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

1. Just noticed you're right, was a mistake in my source (quoted from an article).

2. You haven't heard the theory that Coats is an indoctrinated agent of the Reapers? It's from here on the boards - he is the one calling the troops back and saying Hammer has been wiped when there's survivors, for example. He has also been exposed to Reapers for a long time, and his sniping in Big Ben for three days was cited as not very credible. Besides, right now, he serves no useful purpose; his role could have been filled by Anderson. He also has the voice of Loghain and his only dialogue with Shepard alone is to remind him that the loss of a leader like Shep (e.g. through indoctrination) would be a severe blow to the resistance. I don't know if I think the theory has merit, but Coats somehow IS a dark character and serves no useful role.

3. I think the Dark Energy plot would have diminished the Reapers as villains as much as a Catalyst that degrades the Reapers to puppets (I don't think he does), so I prefer the chaos vs order / organics vs synthetics theme.


Also, he does not have Simon Templeman as a voice actor, they do sound alike and the character model DOES look like Loghain, someone did a comparison and Coats looks like Loghain with his braids cut off, but they are not one and the same as far as voice acting. Coats (yes I am annoyed by that spelling, it just looks stupid) was voiced by Nich Boulton, the voice of Hawke.


Thanks for the heads-up, Arian. I don't have the time to look into this forum regularly, so the last info I had was that it was Loghain's voice. It's indeed very similar. Let's keep fingers crossed that there is more to come and a few of these mysteries will be solved.