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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#3626
Salient Archer

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blooregard wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

If we were to consider that ME:Cerberus was an idea the reapers gave Jack Harper [as Cerberus only came to exist after he had contact with the Arch Monolith] what are some of the parallels and motifs we can draw from the name?

Well the most popular beliefs say that Cerberus was the three headed guardian of the underworld, He is the son of Echidna [who was half woman, half serpent/demon] and Typhon [a fire breathing giant even the Gods feared].

Each one of his heads representing either birth, life and death or the past, present and future. Hmm, what else in the mass effect trilogy also represents the idea of things that are related but with distinct differences or stages.

Obviously the imagery of three is rich with ME:Cerberus, considering their logo is made up of three unique parts, the illusive man has three brightly coloured orbs in his eyes [although these eyes were created by contact with the Reaper artefact] and even the Cerberus Skunkworks emblem from ME has the three motif going for it.

In Greek mythology, It is said that Cerberus only feasted on the flesh of the living and hence only the undead could enter the underworld but yet none of them could leave.

Hercules final mission was to trap Cerberus as punishment for killing his own children [he was driven mad by Hera at the time] to successfully take down Cerberus he had to be initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries so he could learn how to navigate in and out of the underworld untouched.

By the way Elusinian evolved into the word elusive "difficult to catch".

Once Herc meet up with Hades he was told he could have Cerberus but only if he could take the beast down without weapons, Hercules suceded. Hercules {with Cerberus on his back} travelled back to the mortal realm and presented Cerberus to King Eurystheus, the king not expecting Hercules to be capable of the task was so terrified of Hercules and the beast that he asked Hercules to return it to the underworld and in some versions this act also cleansed Hecules of any remnants of his madness.

Anyway, just some food for thought and hopefully debate.


Would like to point out, the name Cerberus came from TIM's Manifesto, in which he called for "A cerberus to watch from the Charon relay" hence he was invoking the symbolism of Charon and Pluto and greek myth.


It's interesting how TIM [or atleast BioWare] are referencing the underworld in each one of those cases.

Charon - the ferryman of the newly dead souls, who helped tem travel accross the river Styx and Acheron.
Pluto - The god of the underworld.
Cerberus - Guardian of the underworld, who would only let the dead enter [one way or another] but never let them return.




If I recall correctly wasn't everyone that came in contact with that artifact eventually turned into a pro*insert species here* or at least gain a disliking of other species?

They were all fanatical extremists of some kind at some point, The indoctrination process seems to not only amplify this attitude but preys on their desires and uses it as fodder for manipulation. 

Modifié par Salient Archer, 21 mai 2012 - 08:03 .


#3627
BleedingUranium

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OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

And there are people out there who beleive who the president is really has a genuine effect on the direction the economy takes.

Doesn't mean they're right.

Dude, I respect you so much more now.


Same here Posted Image

Also, the Quarian signature is funny Posted Image

#3628
CARL_DF90

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I wonder if anyone has brought up the info on indoctrination and it's effects that was covered in the novel Retribution.

#3629
Arian Dynas

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CARL_DF90 wrote...

I wonder if anyone has brought up the info on indoctrination and it's effects that was covered in the novel Retribution.


Where do you think the Reaper Growls came from?

#3630
Destructorlio

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blooregard wrote...

Also if you're refering to the interview with Hendriksen I didn't find anything that supported or denied IT...care to point out the potential evidence?


He said:

 "They were saying that the end...was a little bit of a problem with the end was the abruptness of the end, he gets killed- it's abrupt. So we did a whole series of things to add to the end of the game to live up to the quality that they've been doing. And it was just an oversight. Usually when a guy loses a game, the game shuts down [splat!] and you're done. And the players didn't like that, so... I love these games. I really do."

 

This actually supports IT in some cases and does not support it in others.

Support: 
he gets killed - this indicates that if you choose control or synthesis, you die, the game ends.
we did a whole series of things to add to the end of the game - this indicates the EC content will be post ending, which can really only be IT.

Denies:
it was just an oversight - If IT was planned, then it wasn't an oversight, but Hendriksen may not know this.

Ultimately, I think there is a lot of info to be gleaned from voice artists and if anyone works in media and can get in touch with them, please do. But This interview was not illuminating because Hendriksen is so vague, and is probably under and NDA, and he may not get the full picture from his voiceovers alone, anyway.

#3631
CARL_DF90

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Arian Dynas wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

I wonder if anyone has brought up the info on indoctrination and it's effects that was covered in the novel Retribution.


Where do you think the Reaper Growls came from?


Which does not answer what I was getting at. Has anyone ever discussed it or even brought it up?

#3632
Dendio1

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CARL_DF90 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

I wonder if anyone has brought up the info on indoctrination and it's effects that was covered in the novel Retribution.


Where do you think the Reaper Growls came from?


Which does not answer what I was getting at. Has anyone ever discussed it or even brought it up?


Choosing to miss out on dlc is one thing, but the novels are a whole different medium. Alot of us just like to stick with what we see in game. What does retribution reveal about indoctrination?

#3633
HellishFiend

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Dendio1 wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

CARL_DF90 wrote...

I wonder if anyone has brought up the info on indoctrination and it's effects that was covered in the novel Retribution.


Where do you think the Reaper Growls came from?


Which does not answer what I was getting at. Has anyone ever discussed it or even brought it up?


Choosing to miss out on dlc is one thing, but the novels are a whole different medium. Alot of us just like to stick with what we see in game. What does retribution reveal about indoctrination?


Being interested in the Indoctrination Theory does not mesh well with ignoring the other mediums. The ending was designed to stand on its own for those who started with ME3 or really dont care for the story all that much, while those of us who are deeply in to the story and are familiar with all of the canonized lore from the "different mediums" know enough to catch on to the clues that lead us to believe in IT. 

As for the specific things Retribution reveals, I'll let someone else field that one. I'm actually not done reading it yet. 

#3634
paxxton

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Nothing's happening...

#3635
Arian Dynas

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Boo.

#3636
gunslinger_ruiz

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paxxton wrote...

Nothing's happening...


We  think it's something on your end ... ... Commander Shepard!

#3637
paxxton

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prettz wrote...
Posted Image


HORROR IN HER EYES WILL HAUNT YOU FOREVER Posted Image

#3638
HellishFiend

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Nothing's happening...


We  think it's something on your end ... ... Commander Shepard!


I dont see... I'm not sure how to....

#3639
paxxton

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gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Nothing's happening...


We  think it's something on your end ... ... Commander Shepard!

I don't see...don't know how...
//collapses and is ascended to the Catalyst's chamber
I...don't know

#3640
Lion Martinez

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Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up

#3641
HellishFiend

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 Guys, how do you think this plays into IT?
http://www.youtube.c...5Kq-5j8#t=1234s

Player: "Garrus died?"
*Kinect listens*
Garrus: I'm on it. *continues to lay on the ground, dead*

<_<

#3642
HellishFiend

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Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up


Thanks :)

#3643
RavenEyry

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CARL_DF90 wrote...

Which does not answer what I was getting at. Has anyone ever discussed it or even brought it up?

I do believe this was discussed on the very first day of the theory actually.

#3644
OneWithTheAssassins

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HellishFiend wrote...

 Guys, how do you think this plays into IT?
http://www.youtube.c...5Kq-5j8#t=1234s

Player: "Garrus died?"
*Kinect listens*
Garrus: I'm on it. *continues to lay on the ground, dead*

<_<

Well, at least you know it works well. lol.

#3645
BleedingUranium

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Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up


Yay Posted Image thanks

#3646
HellishFiend

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OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

 Guys, how do you think this plays into IT?
http://www.youtube.c...5Kq-5j8#t=1234s

Player: "Garrus died?"
*Kinect listens*
Garrus: I'm on it. *continues to lay on the ground, dead*

<_<

Well, at least you know it works well. lol.


Yep, he was certainly on it, in this case!

#3647
RavenEyry

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HellishFiend wrote...

Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up


Thanks :)


We now have a Bioware tag on our thread! Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

HellishFiend wrote...


Player: "Garrus died?"
*Kinect listens*
Garrus: I'm on it. *continues to lay on the ground, dead*

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie]


The kinect is glitchy in the whole ending. I heard you can use some powers with it. Sadly Mr. Sparkle is still invulnerable.

Modifié par RavenEyry, 21 mai 2012 - 09:11 .


#3648
paxxton

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Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up

Thanks! Usually something is happening in this thread. Just a moment of silence right now.

#3649
gunslinger_ruiz

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Lion Martinez wrote...

Wow, some great theorizing going on in this thread. I'm really enjoying it, it intrigues me. Keep it up


Thanks, we'll keep trying. Good to know some mods are taking an interest. Also, hurrah! Bioware tag on the thread title.

#3650
prettz

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blooregard wrote...

Well if the crucible does turn out to be a trap we can always fall back on Joker's plans

1) time travel
2) teaching the Reapers to love.

Also if you're refering to the interview with Hendriksen I didn't find anything that supported or denied IT...care to point out the potential evidence?


Now look what you made me do:whistle:
www.youtube.com/watch