55528 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Sharrah]

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

[D.Sharrah]

Billyg3453 wrote...

IT folk. I have a question
Since EC has come out, people have been pointing to the "turn-on" sound Shepard's body makes when he wakes up after going through the beam as Indoc Proof.

Can someone explain to me how this supports Shepard is indoctrinated? I don't want to troll, I'm legitimately curious as no one has given me a straight answer.

My theory...remeber in ME 1 when Saren is "revived" (assumed direct control of) by Sovereign...his body shakes violently during the process (especially right at the beginning).  My thought is what we see on the Citadel w/Shep is similar (although not nearly as violent b/c Shep is not dead).  And they are "waking" Shep up so they can continue the indoctrination attempt.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

prettz wrote...

well I finally got around to playing the EC so I'm way behind what has been discused but did anyone find that what looks like Major Coats dead on the citadel:blink:  of course when you get control of Shepard the body is gone:o...

www.youtube.com/watch

Wow...just...wow. But then who is radioing the forces back on earth...

That or he could have a surge of heroism and decided to try his luck at the Citadel. Too bad he was defeated by a keeper.

[Billyg3453]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

IT folk. I have a question
Since EC has come out, people have been pointing to the "turn-on" sound Shepard's body makes when he wakes up after going through the beam as Indoc Proof.

Can someone explain to me how this supports Shepard is indoctrinated? I don't want to troll, I'm legitimately curious as no one has given me a straight answer.

My theory...remeber in ME 1 when Saren is "revived" (assumed direct control of) by Sovereign...his body shakes violently during the process (especially right at the beginning).  My thought is what we see on the Citadel w/Shep is similar (although not nearly as violent b/c Shep is not dead).  And they are "waking" Shep up so they can continue the indoctrination attempt.

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

[Rifneno]

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

[D.Sharrah]

Billyg3453 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

IT folk. I have a question
Since EC has come out, people have been pointing to the "turn-on" sound Shepard's body makes when he wakes up after going through the beam as Indoc Proof.

Can someone explain to me how this supports Shepard is indoctrinated? I don't want to troll, I'm legitimately curious as no one has given me a straight answer.

My theory...remeber in ME 1 when Saren is "revived" (assumed direct control of) by Sovereign...his body shakes violently during the process (especially right at the beginning).  My thought is what we see on the Citadel w/Shep is similar (although not nearly as violent b/c Shep is not dead).  And they are "waking" Shep up so they can continue the indoctrination attempt.

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

Well I did say it was theory...and you did ask how could it be tied to IT...so I did answer your question.  But as was also said in the other response - there really is no way to tell, unless Bioware reveals all.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:07 .

[SirLugash]

GreenFlag wrote...

prettz wrote...

well I
finally got around to playing the EC so I'm way behind what has been
discused but did anyone find that what looks like Major Coats dead on
the citadel[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]  of course when you get control of Shepard the body is gone[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png[/smilie]...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

www.youtube.com/watch

What? But, he spoke in radio, until Shep reached to the Beam...

IT will come with Leviathan, no doubt x)

I really enjoyed your videos Prettz, but still I'd like to repeat something that I already said in the previous IT thread:
Don't get too much into stuff he player is not intended to see.
Sure it's odd that it's Coats lying dead there, maybe this is even some preparation for some slightly extended Citadel scene from an incoming (speculations, you know), but as a matter of fact, the player is only intended to see that the helmet was taken off and not the guy wearing it.
Despite that, we haven't seen wearing a helmet before did wee ?

HellishFiend wrote...

Vaya wrote...

It's not that they left it in for the EC, they actively went and added it. Its a fly cam of the keeper you see removing the helmet when you first get to the citadel, but in the cinematic view all you see is the helmet.

It's like theyre trying to give us more clues that something is wrong with Coats. 

Another big one? That short convo you have with Coats after arriving at the FOB is the only "normal" conversation in the entire game that you can not skip. 

What do you mean with "normal" ?
Ones without dialog wheel ?

[D.Sharrah]

Rifneno wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

I thought about mentioning that too...but you're right right now it is unexplained.  What's funny is that his original question was there any way to to tie it to IT - I thought that I did that quite nicely - even using an in universe example as support...

[JasonSic]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

IT folk. I have a question
Since EC has come out, people have been pointing to the "turn-on" sound Shepard's body makes when he wakes up after going through the beam as Indoc Proof.

Can someone explain to me how this supports Shepard is indoctrinated? I don't want to troll, I'm legitimately curious as no one has given me a straight answer.

My theory...remeber in ME 1 when Saren is "revived" (assumed direct control of) by Sovereign...his body shakes violently during the process (especially right at the beginning).  My thought is what we see on the Citadel w/Shep is similar (although not nearly as violent b/c Shep is not dead).  And they are "waking" Shep up so they can continue the indoctrination attempt.

But the reapers were only able to "assume direct control" of Saren because he had those nanide implants. That's why it was too late for him. Same goes for  Paul Grayson (from the novels), The Illusive Man, and every single Collector.

So, I don't think that could be the reason for Shepard, unless the Lazarus Project had some sort of nanide tech in it. But I doubt that, because Cerberus got the nanide tech from the Collector Base after ME2.

The following statement assumes the endings are literal:
Since the Illusive Man has these reaper nanides in him, and can obviously not control them, Shepard is talking to the reapers on the Citadel, through The Illusive Man. TIM can still think for himself, but all physical action is reaper controlled. If you've read Retribution, you'll get what I mean.

"The Illusive Man could never control us because we already control him."

[D.Sharrah]

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal..." - These are the very first words spoken by Harpard. Followed by the claim that these were words used by Shepard - at what point in any of the games did Shepard ever say these things?

Who said these things...Sovereign, Harbinger, Rannoch Reaper, the Catalyst...but never Shepard. If the influence isn't clear at this point...

[MattNI]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

I thought about mentioning that too...but you're right right now it is unexplained.  What's funny is that his original question was there any way to to tie it to IT - I thought that I did that quite nicely - even using an in universe example as support...

Didn't someone mention several dozen pages ago that the jolt could be a defibrillator and that also the moving panels past the door sounded like gunfire?

[D.Sharrah]

JasonSic wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

IT folk. I have a question
Since EC has come out, people have been pointing to the "turn-on" sound Shepard's body makes when he wakes up after going through the beam as Indoc Proof.

Can someone explain to me how this supports Shepard is indoctrinated? I don't want to troll, I'm legitimately curious as no one has given me a straight answer.

My theory...remeber in ME 1 when Saren is "revived" (assumed direct control of) by Sovereign...his body shakes violently during the process (especially right at the beginning).  My thought is what we see on the Citadel w/Shep is similar (although not nearly as violent b/c Shep is not dead).  And they are "waking" Shep up so they can continue the indoctrination attempt.

But the reapers were only able to "assume direct control" of Saren because he had those nanide implants. That's why it was too late for him. Same goes for  Paul Grayson (from the novels), The Illusive Man, and every single Collector.

So, I don't think that could be the reason for Shepard, unless the Lazarus Project had some sort of nanide tech in it. But I doubt that, because Cerberus got the nanide tech from the Collector Base after ME2.

The following statement assumes the endings are literal:
Since the Illusive Man has these reaper nanides in him, and can obviously not control them, Shepard is talking to the reapers on the Citadel, through The Illusive Man. TIM can still think for himself, but all physical action is reaper controlled. If you've read Retribution, you'll get what I mean.

"The Illusive Man could never control us because we already control him."

Fair point...we don't know the nature of the Lazarus implants - and in fact they may have nothing to do with Reaper tech.  But we also have absolutely no idea what happened to Shep during those two days he was "out" in Arrival, either...

The conversation started b/c it was asked how could the "jolt awake" tie into IT - I thought that my explanation did that fairly.

[TSA_383]

Rifneno wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

Is the noise not somewhat similar to the "first aid"/medigel noise?

[SirLugash]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal..." - These are the very first words spoken by Harpard. Followed by the claim that these were words used by Shepard - at what point in any of the games did Shepard ever say these things?

Who said these things...Sovereign, Harbinger, Rannoch Reaper, the Catalyst...but never Shepard. If the influence isn't clear at this point...

Maybe they're the words Shepard used to describe the Reapers ?

[D.Sharrah]

MattNI wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

I thought about mentioning that too...but you're right right now it is unexplained.  What's funny is that his original question was there any way to to tie it to IT - I thought that I did that quite nicely - even using an in universe example as support...

Didn't someone mention several dozen pages ago that the jolt could be a defibrillator and that also the moving panels past the door sounded like gunfire?

The bolded section from your comment does not explain the bolded section from Rinferno's comment at all...if it is something simple that is not meant to be a clue to anything else...its awfully convenient that it only happens at that specific moment in the game...

[ThisOneIsPunny]

Rifneno wrote...

Billyg3453 wrote...

I feel like that would have more merit if Shep had been shaking, losing control of himself, etc. But I feel that it's much more likely that as someone posted above that Shepard's mechanical parts simply restarted/rebooted and jolted him awake.

Obviously it cannot be proven either way, but logically, it seems like the better assumption in my opinion.

The problem is, we've gone two full games and quite a few DLC of ME2 with those cybernetics and this is the first time we've seen this jolt-up thing.  Seems odd for it to pop up now and without an in-game reference.
Mind you, I'm not saying it's indoctrination related either.  I don't see how it would be.  I have no explanation for it at all to be honest.  It's just... weird.

I was about to say, I never once heard mention of Shepard being rebuilt with some kind of internal defib unit. Why they suddenly decided to add that in with the extended cut is pretty strange. And you'd think they'd use it again with the catalyst first speaking to Shepard but I don't think they do? 

[Rifneno]

Auto-defib is reminding me of that terrible, terrible Street Fighter II movie.

I is sad now.

[D.Sharrah]

Just had a thought...I know that there is no way that I can confirm this, but TSA (the audio guru), are there any similar sounds to the "jolt" during either of these scenes?

-Overlord: When Shep enters the virtual world?

-Arrival: When Shep is hit by the initial wave from Object Rho?

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal..." - These are the very first words spoken by Harpard. Followed by the claim that these were words used by Shepard - at what point in any of the games did Shepard ever say these things?

Who said these things...Sovereign, Harbinger, Rannoch Reaper, the Catalyst...but never Shepard. If the influence isn't clear at this point...

Of course - with interaction comes influence. Shepard has become the new Catalyst. He is immortal because he isn't alive in a traditional sense. Infinite because he is a computer program now (maybe not exactly what he is, though). Eternal because there's no force that could destroy all the Reapers. And he is a collective intelligence which means as long as a single Reaper exists he exists.

Anticipating your question. Taking control of the Reapers imposes the real Shepard's will on them and then the new Shepard is created out of that (out of their new collective intelligence). He can be called Harpard but it's just a name - he's different than Harbinger. Besides, I had a Paragon ending where Shepard doesn't talk about destroying everything that dares to oppose the future of the many. But isn't the future of the many worth fighting for? Plus, FemShep sounds scarier than BroShep.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:23 .

[D.Sharrah]

SirLugash wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal..." - These are the very first words spoken by Harpard. Followed by the claim that these were words used by Shepard - at what point in any of the games did Shepard ever say these things?

Who said these things...Sovereign, Harbinger, Rannoch Reaper, the Catalyst...but never Shepard. If the influence isn't clear at this point...

Maybe they're the words Shepard used to describe the Reapers ?

I do not ever remember this...anyone else remember this?

[MaximizedAction]

prettz wrote...

well I finally got around to playing the EC so I'm way behind what has been discused but did anyone find that what looks like Major Coats dead on the citadel:blink:  of course when you get control of Shepard the body is gone:o...

www.youtube.com/watch

BW also changed Coats' line: It's no more "Our entire force has been decimated" but "It's too much, we need to fall back to the buildings".

But mother of god, that is some good flycam evidence.

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Very first words out of Harpard's mouth:

http://www.youtube.c...BllnO8Tc#t=388s

+ the overall tone of that ending...my Shep never showed anything like that paersonality - more reminscent of Harbinger, Sovereign, Reapers in general...

There's more than one voice in that audio.
The very last line is just Hale, but for the rest of the audio there's a second track, may well be a guy speaking, but it's not Hale. It comes in particularly strongly on certain lines.

Well and this is my point...it is not Shepard.  But some combination of Shepard and a Reaper (most likely Harbinger), hence Harpard.

And of course this is not the first time I have tried to sway Paxxton away from his folly of liking "Control"...but alas, I fear he may be gone and there is no more hope for him.

Shepard has responsibilities now. He has become the Protector of the Galaxy with great power. Maybe it's not exactly Shepard but oh well...  His point of view evolved because it had to. He sees the big picture now.

"Eternal, Infinite, Immortal..." - These are the very first words spoken by Harpard. Followed by the claim that these were words used by Shepard - at what point in any of the games did Shepard ever say these things?

Who said these things...Sovereign, Harbinger, Rannoch Reaper, the Catalyst...but never Shepard. If the influence isn't clear at this point...

Maybe they're the words Shepard used to describe the Reapers ?

I do not ever remember this...anyone else remember this?

Maybe he used them behind the scenes.

Modifié par paxxton, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:25 .

[Lazengan]

this theory is postulated by deluded people who actually think Bioware's "artistic integrity" move was just them pulling your leg

no it wasn't, it was intended.

these are the endings, and they are here to stay. I hate them too, but I don't cling on to irrational hope.

IT belongs in fanfics

[SirLugash]

MaximizedAction wrote...

prettz wrote...

well I finally got around to playing the EC so I'm way behind what has been discused but did anyone find that what looks like Major Coats dead on the citadel:blink:  of course when you get control of Shepard the body is gone:o...

www.youtube.com/watch

BW also changed Coats' line: It's no more "Our entire force has been decimated" but "It's too much, we need to fall back to the buildings".

But mother of god, that is some good flycam evidence.

I'm pretty sure the line is still there, but now it's when the screen is black and not at the beginning of the scene where Shepard wakes up.
Edit: http://www.youtube.c...illYC_aU#t=200s

Modifié par SirLugash, 01 juillet 2012 - 04:35 .