55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

Dreamgazer, I'm really confused as to what you believe here. Your sig is a "Catalyst deserves less trust" banner, yet you believe what he says about being the collective consciousness of the Reapers? And he supposedly wants Shepard to live so that he can make it to the Citadel, possibly be killed by TIM anyway, and then be given the option to supplant him or destroy him outright, on the off chance that he'll buy into the synthesis propaganda? In my humble opinion, that fits the definition of grasping at straws far worse than the IT interpretation. 

[legaldinho]

it's utter nonsense.

[Arian Dynas]

Dwailing wrote...

Well, all quiet on the IT front.

All Quiet on the Western Front is the second most depressing book I've ever read, and the number one depressing book I could read and not hate.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

I apologize if my tone comes off as hostile, because that is never my intention with any of my posts. But how else would I make that point? If you could hear my vocal inflection you'd know I wasnt being rude, but the fact of the matter is that I feel you are not considering all of the information we have on indoctrination when coming up with what you feel is the best explanation for the events that take place during the charge. We are. 

• dream trees and shrubs
• ashley/kaidan corpse piles
• infinite supply of generic alliance troops charging at the beam
• Normandy comes out of nowhere when we already know it had rejoined the sword fleet
• harby doesnt fire at anything while you chat with your teammates
• 3 of the last 4 beams that Harby fires are sound only, and cant be seen
• the last beam harby fires at shep is out of sync with it's beam sound, and you hear a strange tone at first instead

That's not even a complete list, either. 

Ok I have some answers to some of those.

1) The trees on the field are not the same in appearance or size to the ones in your dreams. The shrubs are not in your dreams either.
2) Could be standard armor for alliance soldiers. Is Ashely and Kaiden's armor said to be unique to them?
3) We don't know how large Harmer really is. We just know what percentage of them actually land in London. With Low EMS, that number seems to be a lot smaller since the scene ends much faster.
4) Normandy is most likely one of the ships ordered by Hackett to delay the reapers leaving the battle with Sword. If they landed near Harbinger, the Normandy wouldn't be too far.
5) Can't really explain that one other than Bioware left it out while rushing EC out the door.
6) Like I said before, there are still explosions heard in the background when the focus is on Shepard and his crew.
7) I think the sound is for dramatic effect, much like it was pre-EC.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

legaldinho wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

10 secs before evac, harby was shooting at Shepard's squadmates, nearly killing them. The idea that he is anger-managing shep is so utterly deluded, I can't even believe I'm having to spell this out. If that's the motivation why kill anyone? Why target the squadmates?

'

Yeah if the Catalyst truly planned for Shepard to make this big decision at this point why even send Harbinger down there? In fact why even move a fleet to earth or capture the Citadel?

Let Shepard connect the Crucible and have the entire end conversation without the loss of anyones life. The mere fact that the Reapers are not trying anything would make Shepard start to wonder what is going on giving the Catalyst more pressence as he explains it.

However having your servants blast him and his friends and teh collective races only minutes before you are gonna do your gaalxy changing talk with him is not gonna bring his mind in your favor.

Neither is having your Indoctrinated servant (TIM) trying to kill him...

[paxxton]

insomniak9 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Reaper vs Maw

Don't forget to watch this

This is a distinct sound from Harby's as you can hear in the video posted by EpyonX3. Listen for 6-7 seconds to hear both.
http://www.youtube.c...sD17Ovyk#t=290s

It's the same sound. Just has different speeds with the same pitch.

Harbinger? So we're now to believe that Harbinger got owned by the Maw on Tuchanka? 

Both sounds are output by Reapers.

[dreamgazer]

legaldinho wrote...

10 secs before evac, harby was shooting at Shepard's squadmates, nearly killing them. The idea that he is anger-managing shep is so utterly deluded, I can't even believe I'm having to spell this out. If that's the motivation why kill anyone? Why target the squadmates?

Did the squad-mates die, outside of soldiers that Shepard might lump into the category of "faceless forces killed by the Reapers"? Demoralization differs from vengeance.  Killing the Normandy and her crew would burn faces in Shepard's mind.

By the way, using words like "deluded" is a real simple way to stop a conversation, as you'll lead the listener of said comments to make the same generalizations.

[DJBare]

legaldinho wrote...
10 secs before evac, harby was shooting at Shepard's squadmates, nearly killing them. The idea that he is anger-managing shep is so utterly deluded, I can't even believe I'm having to spell this out. If that's the motivation why kill anyone? Why target the squadmates?

Not to point out the obvious here, but Harby is hitting every generic soldier with pin point accuracy while managing to miss 3 with outstanding armors, just putting that out there.

[EpyonX3]

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

Unless you saved the collector base and only have control as an option.

[Eryri]

EpyonX3 wrote...

[*]snip

1) The trees on the field are not the same in appearance or size to the ones in your dreams. The shrubs are not in your dreams either.

[*]
[*]I was watching footage of it the other night, and although the shrubs in the dreams tend to be larger, they do wave in the breeze in the same peculiarly unnatural way that the ones around the beam do.

Modifié par Eryri, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:28 .

[invetro]

invetro wrote...

soundcloud.com/invetrolives/citadel-sounds/s-V4Vwi

I bumped the volume on the Citadel scene before Shep arrives. Hopefully the sounds I mentioned some pages back are now audible. All I've done here is give a volume boost on the quiet parts (groan and faint reaper noise) and cut the volume of Sheps arrival/wake up noise so I don't deafen anybody. The first few seconds are the keeper with the helmet, and the ambient noise is actually pretty similar to the ambience in the breath scene, although I'm still pretty certain Shep is in London at the end.

Has anyone listened to this yet? Any thoughts at all why there's groaning when everyone up there is dead at the exact moment the keeper is removing the helmet from "Coats"?

I get the impression from the added weirdness that for everything Bioware explained that went against IT, they had to add something else in to work with IT.

Also, more speculations. What if that particular beam transported Shep directly onto Harbinger. A couple of full on hallucinations and Shep wouldn't know any better.

[EpyonX3]

insomniak9 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Reaper vs Maw

Don't forget to watch this

This is a distinct sound from Harby's as you can hear in the video posted by EpyonX3. Listen for 6-7 seconds to hear both.
http://www.youtube.c...sD17Ovyk#t=290s

It's the same sound. Just has different speeds with the same pitch.

Harbinger? So we're now to believe that Harbinger got owned by the Maw on Tuchanka? 

No. The point is that the sound from harbinger is not a unique one. It's a standard reaper sound that we've all heard before but never paid any attention to it.

[Turbo_J]

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

So because the squad is safe that's ok? ah well too bad for the Trillions killed since they showed up in the galaxy for THIS cycle?

Soldiers don't morn during battle. It is brought up quite a few times by Shep and squad that you can't count casualties... even if they are your friends.

The Reapers destroyed any chance they ever had of my Shepard giving them any kind of benefit of the doubt during the conversation with Sovereign.

Anything that hides knows fear, and that's all these bastards do after committing galactic genocide. I'll take Vigil's advice on Ilos over anything else I've heard to date.

"Our survival depends on stopping the Reapers, not in understanding them."

Modifié par Turbo_J, 02 juillet 2012 - 08:31 .

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I apologize if my tone comes off as hostile, because that is never my intention with any of my posts. But how else would I make that point? If you could hear my vocal inflection you'd know I wasnt being rude, but the fact of the matter is that I feel you are not considering all of the information we have on indoctrination when coming up with what you feel is the best explanation for the events that take place during the charge. We are. 

• dream trees and shrubs
• ashley/kaidan corpse piles
• infinite supply of generic alliance troops charging at the beam
• Normandy comes out of nowhere when we already know it had rejoined the sword fleet
• harby doesnt fire at anything while you chat with your teammates
• 3 of the last 4 beams that Harby fires are sound only, and cant be seen
• the last beam harby fires at shep is out of sync with it's beam sound, and you hear a strange tone at first instead

That's not even a complete list, either. 

Ok I have some answers to some of those.

1) The trees on the field are not the same in appearance or size to the ones in your dreams. The shrubs are not in your dreams either.
2) Could be standard armor for alliance soldiers. Is Ashely and Kaiden's armor said to be unique to them?
3) We don't know how large Harmer really is. We just know what percentage of them actually land in London. With Low EMS, that number seems to be a lot smaller since the scene ends much faster.
4) Normandy is most likely one of the ships ordered by Hackett to delay the reapers leaving the battle with Sword. If they landed near Harbinger, the Normandy wouldn't be too far.
5) Can't really explain that one other than Bioware left it out while rushing EC out the door.
6) Like I said before, there are still explosions heard in the background when the focus is on Shepard and his crew.
7) I think the sound is for dramatic effect, much like it was pre-EC.

1) The Reapers clearly blazed a swath of "No mans land" across that area. How did those trees survive while all of the manmade structures were absolutely leveled? Literal interpretation: bad writing/oversight
2) Standard armor that is never seen once in the game on any alliance soldier except for the dozens or hundreds in those piles? Literal interpretation: bad writing/oversight.
3) Literal interpretation: bad scripting (should be that alliance troops eventually run out, and harby blasts you, resulting in game over)
4) Trying to explain something for BW that they could have easily explained themselves so that you wouldnt have to stretch/reach to figure out what happened. Literal interpretation: bad writing/oversight
6) Where do those explosions come from? 
Literal interpretation: bad scripting/oversight
7) So youre saying creative liberty is more likely than a lore-based explanation? Not buying it, especially when it's part of a much, much larger pattern, rather than something trying to stand on its own. 

The pattern is there... hidden in the data...

[clennon8]

Unfortunately, I think Epyonx is right.  I even posted this last night:

clennon8 wrote...

Hi all. I hesitate to bring this up, because I don't think it helps IT, but... You know that Harby "Serve us" sound that we've been talking about? Did you all realize that sound occurs one other time during the Priority: Earth mission? It occurs right at the beginning of that cut-scene with the Destroyer walking through downtown London, just before it blasts that squadron of asari commandos and then turns its beam on a group of krogan. I was just playing through the mission this evening and came across that. It sure sounded like pretty much the same sound anyway.

[insomniak9]

I know, I posted the Maw video to prove that.

[Dessalines]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


Water under the bridge - dont worry about it. You make every attempt to be civil despite the fact that you disagree with most of the things brought up in the topic, and I appreciate that. 

On number 2, that doesnt really hold up, because as has been pointed out before, Harbinger is neither heard nor seen firing a single beam while Shep is having his heartfelt moment with his team. It seems as if everything that Shep is not paying attention to is simply frozen in time, just like a dream. 

Cool beans!

Ok I hear at least one maybe two beams go off while Shepard approaches the Normandy with his squad members. When the beams aren't heard, several explosions can be heard. There is still a lot of activity going on behind him.

Also, if what you're saying is correct, then are we to assume that Shepard is already dreaming?

Sometimes I think the final indoctrination starts when Habringer lands. The whole run is just like all of his other dreams. He is running towards something.

[EpyonX3]

invetro wrote...

invetro wrote...

soundcloud.com/invetrolives/citadel-sounds/s-V4Vwi

I bumped the volume on the Citadel scene before Shep arrives. Hopefully the sounds I mentioned some pages back are now audible. All I've done here is give a volume boost on the quiet parts (groan and faint reaper noise) and cut the volume of Sheps arrival/wake up noise so I don't deafen anybody. The first few seconds are the keeper with the helmet, and the ambient noise is actually pretty similar to the ambience in the breath scene, although I'm still pretty certain Shep is in London at the end.

Has anyone listened to this yet? Any thoughts at all why there's groaning when everyone up there is dead at the exact moment the keeper is removing the helmet from "Coats"?

I get the impression from the added weirdness that for everything Bioware explained that went against IT, they had to add something else in to work with IT.

Also, more speculations. What if that particular beam transported Shep directly onto Harbinger. A couple of full on hallucinations and Shep wouldn't know any better.

I did. Those aren't reaper noises. Those are keeper sounds. They have clicking robitc insect voices. Groaning is new but it could be because it's grabbing a helmet that could be of use and it's happy to find it.

[dreamgazer]

EpyonX3 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

Unless you saved the collector base and only have control as an option.

Then Shepard's low on options. And that's only in the case of a Low EMS, correct?  It's a limitation of the Crucible's construction. 

[EpyonX3]

insomniak9 wrote...

I know, I posted the Maw video to prove that.

Oh. Then carry on.

[insomniak9]

This is during the EC-added evac scene. Those same dreamy trees, swaying in the same dreamy way.

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Well, all quiet on the IT front.

All Quiet on the Western Front is the second most depressing book I've ever read, and the number one depressing book I could read and not hate.

Geothe's Faust must be the only book by a german author that I find not depressing, emotionless or a burden to read. Not many rainbows coming from here.

[insomniak9]

EpyonX3 wrote...

I did. Those aren't reaper noises. Those are keeper sounds. They have clicking robitc insect voices. Groaning is new but it could be because it's grabbing a helmet that could be of use and it's happy to find it.

That's what she said 

[dreamgazer]

Turbo_J wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

You think harby doesn't shoot the normandy because it might anger shepard... when the normandy's there to evac his squadmates... which harby nearly killed...

On that basis, I'm very happy for you to take your views elsewhere, mate.

Considering the fact that the catalyst knows of Shepard's importance, and that the catalyst is the collective conscious of the Reapers (including Harbinger), yeah.

At this point, Shepard is the gateway to a potential post-cycle Control or Synthesis universe, where the Reapers remain alive.  Going in with a head full of dead squadmates and a blown-up Normandy that their "leader" knocked out of the sky would pretty much nix that idea. 

So because the squad is safe that's ok? ah well too bad for the Trillions killed since they showed up in the galaxy for THIS cycle?

Soldiers don't morn during battle. It is brought up quite a few times by Shep and squad that you can't count casualties... even if they are your friends.

The Reapers destroyed any chance they ever had of my Shepard giving them any kind of benefit of the doubt during the conversation with Sovereign.

Anything that hides knows fear, and that's all these bastards do after committing galactic genocide. I'll take Vigil's advice on Ilos over anything else I've heard to date.

"Our survival depends on stopping the Reapers, not in understanding them."

And that's your viewpoint, and I agree.  But everyone doesn't play their Shepard in the same way. 

[insomniak9]

Dessalines wrote...

Sometimes I think the final indoctrination starts when Habringer lands. The whole run is just like all of his other dreams. He is running towards something.

Also, I agree with this. Hence the overwhelming similarities between the run, and the starkid scene.