55528 réponses à ce sujet

[HellishFiend]

Ryzaki wrote...

*creeps in*

Yeah...I'm leaning towards IT now.

Be gentle?

Glad to hear it.  Pull up a chair and don your speculation monocle. 

[BansheeOwnage]

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

More white circles...

White Circle in Control

White Circle in Synthesis 1
White Circle in Synthesis 2

No additional white circles in Destroy or Refuse EC...

Nice finds! I hadnt considered to look for that. 

I noticed this.

[insomniak9]

This the best summation of the LOTR trilogy I have seen. Mass Effect overall is superior

Warning, contains rude words!

[insomniak9]

paxxton wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Also, proof that you don't need Synthesis.

EDI is alive!

Being alive and feeling alive are a long shot from each other.

If she feels alive, she is alive.

[LaughingDragon]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I honestly don't get literalists. You whine and moan that the story makes no sense. We give you a highly plausible explanation, with evidence taken from the game's lore and literature, and you spit it back at our faces and call us idiots. 

 

I don't think you're idiots. I think the IT is actually better than the real story. I wish the IT was true because I wish a series I loved as a fan wasn't driven into the ground so hard. I just know that it's not what the lead writer was thinking. When they wrote it, in their mind, the catalyst is real, the choices are real, what happens happens. etc

It's actually painful to play through the content again. I have to put down the controller and facepalm throughout. 

Modifié par LaughingDragon, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:36 .

[insomniak9]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

More white circles...

White Circle in Control

White Circle in Synthesis 1
White Circle in Synthesis 2

No additional white circles in Destroy or Refuse EC...

Nice finds! I hadnt considered to look for that. 

I noticed this.

The best part is that it matches the Dreams and the Conduit perfectly. 

We have continuity. 

[DJBare]

LaughingDragon wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Trolling presence detected. 

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem with accepting ME3 happened and is what it is.

Folk do not have to admit anything when it comes to fiction, each person will have their own interpretation, this does not harm anyone else and makes for good speculative discussion, if this were about something real then I might agree with you, but it's not, it's a fictional story with an interesting outcome for discussion.

[BansheeOwnage]

insomniak9 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

Also, proof that you don't need Synthesis.

EDI is alive!

Being alive and feeling alive are a long shot from each other.

If she feels alive, she is alive.

Meh. It doesn't matter too much anyway.

[dreamgazer]

HellishFiend wrote...

Are you saying those individuals are entitled to actually be able to do that, even though we know via established that Control has never worked and Synthesis is the Reaper definition of the pinnacle of evolution?

No, I understand the precedents and use them as a cipher.  Hence, why my canon Shepard picks Destroy and indulges the idea of refusal, no matter what.  In my mind, control and synthesis rely on rigid controlled variables, and the situation presents anything but---and that's not getting into the ideas of morality, or longevity. Others have a different perception, though, and slapping them in the face with "You're wrong" doesn't seem like a feasible outcome anymore.  People have entrenced themselves in their opinions. 

"Those who enjoy all facets of the lore" are the ones that are seeing through the illusion and are posting in this thread. Those who have read the comics, read the novels, studied and understand all the themes.

There are plenty, plenty of folks outside the walls of this thread who have done the same things, and arrive at the same conclusions as this thread, but they don't have to ascribe to the full intentions of the theory.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:35 .

[Spartas Husky]

Play DA2. And watch the reaction frmo the tranquil made after he termporarily gains sanity from being tranquil. The dude begs u to kill him. And when he goes to being tranquil again... he is like nothing happened.

[SubAstris]

LaughingDragon wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I honestly don't get literalists. You whine and moan that the story makes no sense. We give you a highly plausible explanation, with evidence taken from the game's lore and literature, and you spit it back at our faces and call us idiots. 

 

I don't think you're idiots. I think the IT is actually better than the real story. I wish the IT was true because I wish a series I loved as a fan wasn't driven into the ground so hard. I just know that it's not what the lead writer was thinking. When they wrote it, in their mind, the catalyst is real, the choices are real, what happens happens. etc

It's actually painful to play through the content again. I have to put down the controller and facepalm throughout. 

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Don't hate IT but think nonetheless if it was their intention it was poorly done

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Trolling presence detected. 

The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem with accepting ME3 happened and is what it is.

Folk do not have to admit anything when it comes to fiction, each person will have their own interpretation, this does not harm anyone else and makes for good speculative discussion, if this were about something real then I might agree with you, but it's not, it's a fictional story with an interesting outcome for discussion.

Have I ever mentioned how glad I am to have you here with us in this topic? 

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

There is no doubt that the end is a clusterfrack. It doesn't mean indoctrination can't exist. I think this is something both literalists and ITers miss. It's a very very poor ending to a great series.

It's the LOTR equivalent of finding out at the very end that "So, Saruman was right after all" and that Sauron really just has everone's best interests at heart, and will give Frodo the opportunity to take his place as the new Dark Lord. 

Sir, I applaud this analogy!

And for the record, Frodo did nearly fall for the Ring...more than Shepard did to indoctrination, in a literal interpretation.

If we were in Frodo's role, who knows how Tolkien, had he lived in our times, would've done it were he in the position to deliver this temptation.

[paxxton]

Nothing.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juillet 2012 - 11:31 .

[Turbo_J]

SubAstris wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I honestly don't get literalists. You whine and moan that the story makes no sense. We give you a highly plausible explanation, with evidence taken from the game's lore and literature, and you spit it back at our faces and call us idiots. 

 

I don't think you're idiots. I think the IT is actually better than the real story. I wish the IT was true because I wish a series I loved as a fan wasn't driven into the ground so hard. I just know that it's not what the lead writer was thinking. When they wrote it, in their mind, the catalyst is real, the choices are real, what happens happens. etc

It's actually painful to play through the content again. I have to put down the controller and facepalm throughout. 

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Don't hate IT but think nonetheless if it was their intention it was poorly done

Or perfectly done. And a huge risk.

Victims of indoctrination do NOT know they are being indoctrinated.

[Nightingale]

So, I've been gone for two days. Did we find anything interesting?

Also, what am I looking for with the "white circles?"

[legaldinho]

LaughingDragon wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

I honestly don't get literalists. You whine and moan that the story makes no sense. We give you a highly plausible explanation, with evidence taken from the game's lore and literature, and you spit it back at our faces and call us idiots. 

 

I don't think you're idiots. I think the IT is actually better than the real story. I wish the IT was true because I wish a series I loved as a fan wasn't driven into the ground so hard. I just know that it's not what the lead writer was thinking. When they wrote it, in their mind, the catalyst is real, the choices are real, what happens happens. etc

It's actually painful to play through the content again. I have to put down the controller and facepalm throughout. 

We have here once again the false dichotomy that either indoctrination was intended, or the ending was crap.

I'm going to repost this. Indoctrination, done well, would have been an awesome ending. It was done poorly. There was no masterplan to release a "gotcha" DLC. The very notion is laughable.

There is no doubt that the end is a clusterfrack. It doesn't mean the
indoctrination interpretation is invalid. I think this is something both
literalists and ITers miss. It's a very very poor ending to a great
series. Indoctrination, done right, would have worked like total recall.
One interpretation, perfectly plausible, would be the literal ending.
That should have made sense in the context of the whole game in its own
right. Then, another, would be the IT. That would have been genius.

Imagine
everything after the beam is a struggle. Shepard gets past TIM, who has
a plausible reason to be there. You then have another conversation
with, preferably, harbinger. THEN you have a final battle to unleash the
crucible. Preferably, it is just like total recall's "alienhand" win
button. You don't know what it does. You battle. Exhausted, you take a
chance. It wounds the reapers. The fleet finishes them off. Happy
ending. Dreamlike quality.

Fade to white.

Did it happen or not?

Total Recall- doing indoctrination right since before any of the bioware devcos started d&d.

The fight is not between literalists and "ITers". The fight should be by fans against bioware for mucking up the ending royally. Poor artistic vision, fear of leaks, commercial incentive driven by "lots of speculations." Whatever the reason, we deserved better, and we ought to do better than to turn against each other, grasping at straws to justify either a literal or an "IT is coming, Bioware am genius, we swears" stance.

Stop behaving like members of a cult. We all cultivate the mass effect world. We love it. It deserved better and so did we.

[Rosewind]

Finally had the heart to finish the game with EC and you know what..... I am still confused.... I think because of the breathe scene is confusing me, and the fact that the kid still is confusing even with the explanations.

Edit: and why didn't they just add that stuff into the original game. And the child is still a hypocrite.

Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:45 .

[xHAVOC KILLERx]

I've always supported the IT but even as I watch the documentaries, I realise how much evidence I missed and I'm finding it difficult to dispute the evidence people bring up.

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*creeps in*

Yeah...I'm leaning towards IT now.

Be gentle?

Glad to hear it.  Pull up a chair and don your speculation monocle. 

OMG We get Monocles????

[MaximizedAction]

Rosewind wrote...

Finally had the heart to finish the game with EC and you know what..... I am still confused.... I think because of the breathe scene is confusing me, and the fact that the kid still is confusing even with the explanations.

Hey, welcome back!

Did you try all the endings?

[legaldinho]

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*creeps in*

Yeah...I'm leaning towards IT now.

Be gentle?

Glad to hear it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Pull up a chair and don your speculation monocle. 

OMG We get Monocles????

It's not a monocle, it's an emergency refraction glass.

EMERGENCY REFRACTION GLASS

Modifié par legaldinho, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:46 .

[Turbo_J]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

For example, I would say the kid in the dreams is symbolic of everyone Shepard has lost.

And that would be correct. It resembles all he could not save. That's why the Catalyst assumes this form - to exploit Shepard's feeling of guilt.

If you peel back only the one onion layer you chose to peel back, you would ignore that the dreams are portrayed as an integral element of ME3. Thus, the kid - and through it, Shepard's guilt and desire to save the innocent - becomes an integral element of ME3. There is relevance in the form the Catalyst chooses.  One step further. The Catalyst offers three options:
1. Galaxy saved, become the reaper commander and protect the galaxy
2. Galaxy saved, sacrifice yourself to augment the whole galaxy and achieve universal peace
3. Galaxy saved, destroy the geth and your crewmate EDI to achieve the goal you have been fighting for since ME1, but at a terrible cost.
It essentially says "you have won, now you can choose how you want your victory . If you decide not to destroy us, you will be rewarded with a much better ending to your tale. Aren't you tired of all that death? Would it not be preferable to achieve a victory where you don't have to sacrifice anyone else, as already so many have died?"

Nicely laid out.

"...and their sacrifices have no honor if the mission fails."

How many times does Shepard say 'stay focused'? We all should have been paying as much attention to those words as the NPC that was being addressed at the time. What is your mission?

[paxxton]

@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?