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MaximizedAction wrote...
Rosewind wrote...
Finally had the heart to finish the game with EC and you know what..... I am still confused.... I think because of the breathe scene is confusing me, and the fact that the kid still is confusing even with the explanations.
Hey, welcome back!
Did you try all the endings?
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Could be anger. Or it could just be a scare tactic. Or it's Shepard breaking through the illusion. And I agree. Mass Effect is founded on the premise that inaction is not the best way forward.GethPrimeMKII wrote...
Rejection raises so many questions for me. Why have it at all if it's pretty much the game over button? Why is Harbinger angry when you refuse to play his game? If that choice turns the entire galaxy into reaper chow, why does he become angry when you pick it? Why not encourage you to refuse it all if it just dooms the galaxy? You think his anger would be saved for those who choose destroy, but he's offering you the choice to destroy them completely.
I believe both destroy and refuse allow Shepard to regain control of her mind. The difference is that destroy represents a willingness to use the crucible, while refuse represents the courage to stand up to the reapers without it.
Except that a group of Protheans managed to sabotage the Citadel specifically to prevent automated or remote activation. Makes one wonder if those Protheans realized what the Crucible actually could do (empower the reapers) and thus instead of building/completing/triggering their crucible they instead built a mass relay and did what they could to properly sabotage the reapers' efforts. In which case yeah, blowing up a part of the Citadel (i.e. sabotaging it) to unleash Kool-Aid Red makes a little more sense thematically.Turbo_J wrote...
If Sovereign uploaded itself to the Citadel, the cycle would be over. It would have opened the Citadel and activated the relay long before ME3 takes place and would have rendered ME2 and the collectors completely unnecessary.
The Reaper IFF idea would also explain why the destroyer in the prologue didn't shoot down the Normandy either. As for Harbinger's ability to shoot down targets becoming saturated, what about when Harby explicitly takes a few seconds to gasp at Shepard, "S̕͢͟e͘͝r̕͢͟v̡e̸̛͝ ́͞u͜͟s͏̀!͜" and then unleashes a single laser at Shepard. Then again that could simply have presented the opportunity for those poor bastards you mentioned to make it so close.EpyonX3 wrote...
Yeah I wouldn't use stealth drives as a good reason anymore. That suggests that Harbinger can only see heat signatures of ships. That's obviously not the case as he's hitting soldiers as well.
I do still believe that there are two other possibilities, in which both could be true at the same time.
1) The Reaper IFF that the Normandy has is faking Harbinger out long enough for the Normandy to do it's thing.
2) Harbinger doesn't take a shot or two at the Normandy because it will give an opening to Hammer to advance towards the beam. If you look at the wreckage when Shepard wakes up, you'll see that a Mako and some soldiers made it really close, just a second or two away. Going after the Normandy would have given them just enough time to slip through.
This relies on taking the Starbrat's word that the Crucible actually changed it. The reapers were explicitly aware that the Crucible could do something to them. There were also likely in a better position to know exactly what.Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...
The Crucible was still not connected when Harbinger let the Normandy go, the Catalyst had not been altered yet and should by all logic be continuing the cycle as normal meaning letting your greatest enemy and his closest allies live makes no sense.
Remember that harbinger was standing right there, broadcasting indoctrination as all reapers do. And we know from the derelict reaper mission in ME2 that indoctrination can cause visual and auditory hallucinations even when the subject is awake. This would explain the dream foliage that shouldn't be there, why more appears after Shepard gets shot down, as well as the Ashley/Kaiden corpse piles.HellishFiend wrote...
I apologize if my tone comes off as hostile, because that is never my intention with any of my posts. But how else would I make that point? If you could hear my vocal inflection you'd know I wasnt being rude, but the fact of the matter is that I feel you are not considering all of the information we have on indoctrination when coming up with what you feel is the best explanation for the events that take place during the charge. We are.
dream trees and shrubs
ashley/kaidan corpse piles
infinite supply of generic alliance troops charging at the beam
Normandy comes out of nowhere when we already know it had rejoined the sword fleet
harby doesnt fire at anything while you chat with your teammates
3 of the last 4 beams that Harby fires are sound only, and cant be seen
the last beam harby fires at shep is out of sync with it's beam sound, and you hear a strange tone at first instead
That's not even a complete list, either.
Modifié par Simon_Says, 02 juillet 2012 - 09:52 .
LaughingDragon wrote...
GethPrimeMKII wrote...
I honestly don't get literalists. You whine and moan that the story makes no sense. We give you a highly plausible explanation, with evidence taken from the game's lore and literature, and you spit it back at our faces and call us idiots.
I don't think you're idiots. I think the IT is actually better than the real story. I wish the IT was true because I wish a series I loved as a fan wasn't drove into the ground so hard.
I just know that it's not what the lead writer was thinking. When they wrote it, in their mind, the catalyst is real, the choices are real, what happens happens. etc
Did they?Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Destroy, cause I wanted to see if they extended on the breathe scene.....
Turbo_J wrote...
Nicely laid out.
"...and their sacrifices have no honor if the mission fails."
How many times does Shepard say 'stay focused'? We all should have been paying as much attention to those words as the NPC that was being addressed at the time. What is your mission?
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Turbo_J wrote...
Nicely laid out.
"...and their sacrifices have no honor if the mission fails."
How many times does Shepard say 'stay focused'? We all should have been paying as much attention to those words as the NPC that was being addressed at the time. What is your mission?
paxxton wrote...
Did they?Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Destroy, cause I wanted to see if they extended on the breathe scene.....
Simon_Says wrote...
*snip*Infinite supply of generic soldiers is probably just a gameplay mechanic like the infinite ammo pistol. What you should be asking is why Harbinger doesn't shoot Shepard down even if the player doesn't move Shepard at all. As for the discontinuity between laser sound and sights, could just be the devs didn't properly coordinate everything, or it could again be hallucinations applied to confuse and disorient. I know it's weak. Then again discontinuous laser fire doesn't convince me either.
So from where I'm looking the run for the conduit could have been reality overlayed with indoctrination as much as it could have been a sequence dreamed by a comafied Shepard. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Did they?Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Destroy, cause I wanted to see if they extended on the breathe scene.....
No..... they still show it just before the credits, I am more confused now then i was before lol.
Guest_Sareth Cousland_*
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
Modifié par Sareth Cousland, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:03 .
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Did they?Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Destroy, cause I wanted to see if they extended on the breathe scene.....
No..... they still show it just before the credits, I am more confused now then i was before lol.
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:03 .
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.
Sareth Cousland wrote...
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
That was a little tougher to figure out. If you assume under the IT that control, synthesis and destroy are choices in Shepard's mind, refusal is the refusal to make a choice. Destroy means you follow through with your intent to destroy the Reapers, at any and all costs. Refusal means you do not have the guts to make the tough, but necessary decision - and that's what it would take.
DJBare wrote...
paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.
I'd like to finish Shepard's story before I die of old age.
That + a full game would allow for much longer gameplay than a small DLC. + much more diverse story + improvements that will come with the next-gen consoles.HellishFiend wrote...
paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
Did they?Rosewind wrote...
paxxton wrote...
@Rosewind: Hey there! Which ending did you choose?
Destroy, cause I wanted to see if they extended on the breathe scene.....
No..... they still show it just before the credits, I am more confused now then i was before lol.
As much as it would royally suck to have to wait that long for the reveal, a Mass Effect 4 that is widely affected by the result of Shepard's Indoctrination would be @(#%ing epic. Excuse the language.
Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:05 .
I wouldn't be worried about that. ME4 will be out by 2015 or 2016.DJBare wrote...
paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.
I'd like to finish Shepard's story before I die of old age.
Modifié par paxxton, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:11 .
MaximizedAction wrote...
Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...
Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)
Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"
The usual answer: It'd be too obvious. Think about it: Shepard gives epic speech and "OH LOOK he was indoctrinated and broke free, well, NOW I get it". I think something like that would downplay the whole process and effort that was put into also indoc. the player. Refuse is the obvious choice for breaking free.
So, that's not an option (yet?).
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