55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Big_Boss9]

legaldinho wrote...


We have here once again the false dichotomy that either indoctrination was intended, or the ending was crap.

I'm going to repost this. Indoctrination, done well, would have been an awesome ending. It was done poorly. There was no masterplan to release a "gotcha" DLC. The very notion is laughable.

There is no doubt that the end is a clusterfrack. It doesn't mean the
indoctrination interpretation is invalid. I think this is something both
literalists and ITers miss. It's a very very poor ending to a great
series. Indoctrination, done right, would have worked like total recall.
One interpretation, perfectly plausible, would be the literal ending.
That should have made sense in the context of the whole game in its own
right. Then, another, would be the IT. That would have been genius.

Imagine
everything after the beam is a struggle. Shepard gets past TIM, who has
a plausible reason to be there. You then have another conversation
with, preferably, harbinger. THEN you have a final battle to unleash the
crucible. Preferably, it is just like total recall's "alienhand" win
button. You don't know what it does. You battle. Exhausted, you take a
chance. It wounds the reapers. The fleet finishes them off. Happy
ending. Dreamlike quality.

Fade to white.

Did it happen or not?

Total Recall- doing indoctrination right since before any of the bioware devcos started d&d.

The fight is not between literalists and "ITers". The fight should be by fans against bioware for mucking up the ending royally. Poor artistic vision, fear of leaks, commercial incentive driven by "lots of speculations." Whatever the reason, we deserved better, and we ought to do better than to turn against each other, grasping at straws to justify either a literal or an "IT is coming, Bioware am genius, we swears" stance.

Stop behaving like members of a cult. We all cultivate the mass effect world. We love it. It deserved better and so did we.

Well said, legaldinho. Strongly agree.

[LaughingDragon]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

One bit of advice. If you come in shooting with words like "this thread is silly" people will assume you're just another hostile troll. 

If you are saying the word "silly thread" = hostile troll coming into a thread shooting then I guess I have no additional comment.

[Simon_Says]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)

Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"

The usual answer: It'd be too obvious. Think about it: Shepard gives epic speech and "OH LOOK he was indoctrinated and broke free, well, NOW I get it". I think something like that would downplay the whole process and effort that was put into also indoc. the player. Refuse is the obvious choice for breaking free.

So, that's not an option (yet?).

Then what does refusal even accomplish in the context of IT at this point?

Ask yourself this: When has inaction ever favored Shepard in any of the games, as opposed to making definite choices or actions? Because that is the difference between reject and destroy.

[DJBare]

I know for a fact all ME3 is a dream, the damn sphere is missing from my cabin, either it's a dream or the damn space hamster took it!

[HellishFiend]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

legaldinho wrote...
The fight is not between literalists and "ITers". The fight should be by fans against bioware for mucking up the ending royally. Poor artistic vision, fear of leaks, commercial incentive driven by "lots of speculations." Whatever the reason, we deserved better, and we ought to do better than to turn against each other, grasping at straws to justify either a literal or an "IT is coming, Bioware am genius, we swears" stance.

Stop behaving like members of a cult. We all cultivate the mass effect world. We love it. It deserved better and so did we.

Well said, legaldinho. Strongly agree.

While you guys are entitled to your opinion, not everyone feels the same. I, for one, am loving the speculation. It's the most enjoyable meta-gaming experience I've ever had. Best part of all? It's free!

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Simon_Says wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)

Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"

The usual answer: It'd be too obvious. Think about it: Shepard gives epic speech and "OH LOOK he was indoctrinated and broke free, well, NOW I get it". I think something like that would downplay the whole process and effort that was put into also indoc. the player. Refuse is the obvious choice for breaking free.

So, that's not an option (yet?).

Then what does refusal even accomplish in the context of IT at this point?

Ask yourself this: When has inaction ever favored Shepard in any of the games, as opposed to making definite choices or actions? Because that is the difference between reject and destroy.

Refusal is a definite choice. Shepard chooses to fight the Reapers without comprimising with the Catalyst. All of the other choices are compromises. Refusal isn't.

[Rosewind]

DJBare wrote...

I know for a fact all ME3 is a dream, the damn sphere is missing from my cabin, either it's a dream or the damn space hamster took it!

Or it was taken by the alliance when they where retrofitting the Normandy

Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:13 .

[UrgedDuke]

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

would you guys pay to see IT if BW decided to do it that way

Which way?

That way?

I
would bet that mostof us would pay to see IT, which makes it a win win
for BW and us. BW and EA make their money, we get the ending that we so
desperately want, and the ME franchise gets the treatment that it
deserves. This would also rejuvenate interest in the entire ME series
again, and would lead to fans playing through and buying the all games
all over again. Why wouldn't BW give us IT

bump

[Urdnot Amenark]

legaldinho wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*creeps in*

Yeah...I'm leaning towards IT now.

Be gentle?

Glad to hear it. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie] Pull up a chair and don your speculation monocle. 

OMG We get Monocles????

It's not a monocle, it's an emergency refraction glass.

EMERGENCY REFRACTION GLASS

We have dismissed that claim.

[DJBare]

HellishFiend wrote...
While you guys are entitled to your opinion, not everyone feels the same. I, for one, am loving the speculation. It's the most enjoyable meta-gaming experience I've ever had. Best part of all? It's free!

I agree, while Bioware have not fullfilled my hopes in the game, it's led to some very good discussions without becoming overly bitter, but I have to say that if Bioware are playing a mind game, they best be real careful how far they take it, because eventually people will turn around and say "I've had enough of this farce"

[paxxton]

UrgedDuke wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

would you guys pay to see IT if BW decided to do it that way

Which way?

That way?

I
would bet that mostof us would pay to see IT, which makes it a win win
for BW and us. BW and EA make their money, we get the ending that we so
desperately want, and the ME franchise gets the treatment that it
deserves. This would also rejuvenate interest in the entire ME series
again, and would lead to fans playing through and buying the all games
all over again. Why wouldn't BW give us IT

bump

LOL. That's old stuff.

[Rosewind]

Starbringer: "We were created to solve the problem of synthetics turning on their creators."
Shepard: "So what happened to your creators?"
Starbringer: "We made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Right........" *Backs away slowly*

Edit: My thoughts on the ending lol

Modifié par Rosewind, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:18 .

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

Starbringer: "We were created to solve the problem of synthetics turning on their creators."
Shepard: "So what happened to your creators?"
Starbringer: "We made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Right........" *Backs away slowly*

It supports the Starchild's logic.

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:20 .

[EpyonX3]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Hellish: Awesome I get a monocle! *puts on speculation monocle*

And...is Harbinger saying Serve us or save us? I can't make it out.

Neither. The sound he makes is not unique to him and has been heard by other reapers and destroyers throughout the game. Even Pre-EC.

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Starbringer: "We were created to solve the problem of synthetics turning on their creators."
Shepard: "So what happened to your creators?"
Starbringer: "We made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Right........" *Backs away slowly*

It supports Starchild's logic.

There was logic? Made more sense with out the ec lol

[MaximizedAction]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Another question for the IT crowd, this time regarding the Refusal ending! (I'm sure you've already discussed this to death, but I don't feel like lurking through this huge thread)

Simply put, why does the refusal ending, which is essentially rejecting all of the Reapers' choices, give no indication of breaking free of indoc. while Destroy, which is still one of the Catalyst's options, gives the breath scene, or a scene of "waking up?"

The usual answer: It'd be too obvious. Think about it: Shepard gives epic speech and "OH LOOK he was indoctrinated and broke free, well, NOW I get it". I think something like that would downplay the whole process and effort that was put into also indoc. the player. Refuse is the obvious choice for breaking free.

So, that's not an option (yet?).

Then what does refusal even accomplish in the context of IT at this point?

To me personally, it gives a huge hint from an off-game perspective:

When was the last time an epic Shepard pep talk ended in failure without exception?
When was the last time you read or watched something where the moral of the story was:
choosing to fight for freedom of you and everyone, choosing the right to choose your own destiny, the basic principles of democracy that people fight for everyday in real life, will no matter what, result in your failure and the death of everyone else?

That is not a story for the people, that is propaganda.

Is that something a professional writer who lives in a modern world, who in his right state of mind, would seriously try to sell as the final moral of his story?

[UrgedDuke]

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

would you guys pay to see IT if BW decided to do it that way

Which way?

That way?

I
would bet that mostof us would pay to see IT, which makes it a win win
for BW and us. BW and EA make their money, we get the ending that we so
desperately want, and the ME franchise gets the treatment that it
deserves. This would also rejuvenate interest in the entire ME series
again, and would lead to fans playing through and buying the all games
all over again. Why wouldn't BW give us IT

bump

LOL. That's old stuff.

I would rather see an expansion with IT in it than your ME4 idea because I just can't wait

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Starbringer: "We were created to solve the problem of synthetics turning on their creators."
Shepard: "So what happened to your creators?"
Starbringer: "We made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Right........" *Backs away slowly*

It supports Starchild's logic.

There was logic? Made more sense with out the ec lol

Oh, it very much makes sense.

[Simon_Says]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Simon_Says wrote...

Ask yourself this: When has inaction ever favored Shepard in any of the games, as opposed to making definite choices or actions? Because that is the difference between reject and destroy.

Refusal is a definite choice. Shepard chooses to fight the Reapers without comprimising with the Catalyst. All of the other choices are compromises. Refusal isn't.

Control and synthesis are compromises because, fundamentally, they represent accepting the Catalyst's argument about the neccesity of the reapers' mission.

Destroy is actually "I reject your solutions and will substitute my own." This is not a compromise.

Refuse is also rejecting compromise and stating they're going to substitute their own solution. But as we see,  Shepard can't follow up on that.

Saying stuff is all well and good, but doing stuff is how real victories are earned.

Refuse is a choice, yes. But it's an empty one all things considered as long as destroy exists.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:34 .

[paxxton]

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

would you guys pay to see IT if BW decided to do it that way

Which way?

That way?

I
would bet that mostof us would pay to see IT, which makes it a win win
for BW and us. BW and EA make their money, we get the ending that we so
desperately want, and the ME franchise gets the treatment that it
deserves. This would also rejuvenate interest in the entire ME series
again, and would lead to fans playing through and buying the all games
all over again. Why wouldn't BW give us IT

bump

LOL. That's old stuff.

I would rather see an expansion with IT in it than your ME4 idea because I just can't wait

Mass Effect 4 would be much more rewarding than a DLC. Especially considering that it would run on the next-gen consoles!

Modifié par paxxton, 02 juillet 2012 - 10:24 .

[Rosewind]

Anyone else freaked out by how Starbingers voice changes when you choose rejection. I watched it while talking to some one and I wasn't paying attention and was like OMFG Was that harbinger!!!

[paxxton]

Rosewind wrote...

Anyone else freaked out by how Starbingers voice changes when you choose rejection. I watched it while talking to some one and I wasn't paying attention and was like OMFG Was that harbinger!!!

Nope. It was Shepard. Mark Meer voiced that line. 

[Rosewind]

paxxton wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Anyone else freaked out by how Starbingers voice changes when you choose rejection. I watched it while talking to some one and I wasn't paying attention and was like OMFG Was that harbinger!!!

Nope. It was Shepard. Mark Meer voiced that line. 

Doesn't matter who voiced it but It sounded like a reaper and not alitte boy.

[Andromidius]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

Stop behaving like members of a cult.

I'm not.  As far as I can tell, no-one is.

Why do people keep saying this?