55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Arian Dynas]

Turbo_J wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I still think that the Rejection ending might be another way to break free from indoctrination.  I'm not going to say one way or the other whether I think it's a BETTER way to break free from indoctrination than Destroy, but I AM going to say that I think it's another way to break free.

It is possible, but I think it's inaction - potentially not listening to the non-indoctrinated portion of Sheps own mind. I have quotes in the game from Shepard themselves that point at this being a vary bad idea... including 'We fight or we die' and the response to Ash's 'how do we fight something that can worm it's way into our heads'

'I don't know, but we don't have a choice.'

I suspect that part of the vision takes place right after the truck/Mako thing crashes. When Shep gets to the 'Citadel', they are actually coming too at the Mako. What happens in reality from that point, we can't say, but I think Shep tries to get to the 'beam'

As you walk through the Citadel, imagine charging the beam at the same time.

When you get to the 'Normandy rescue' picture the moral standoff with TIM

When you get to the chat with Harbinger, imagine Shepard standing muttering to themselves in front of the BEACON on the ground in London.

When it's time to make the choice; imagine destroy is damaging some kind of generator or power source to the beacon that causes an explosion, blowing Shep and rubble out of the area - say, to about where they wake up after harbingers 'laser hit'.

Basically, the run to the beam and the walk to the control panel may both be happening at the same time. One in reality, the other in side Shepard's head.

Which would be precisely what I based my script on. May have to do a re-write it seems, since I am apparently still relevant now that the EC is out.

[zergi]

why are people saying the Prothean AI didnt sense a present of indoctrination, shepard WASNT indoctrinated at the time, there could of been attempt before that but not successful, he "WAS" indoctrinated when he awoke from harbingers dream

my fail, meant to say wasnt, my bad

Modifié par zergi, 02 juillet 2012 - 11:58 .

[Arian Dynas]

LaughingDragon wrote...

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Let me quote Bioware employee Tully Auckland for you.

There are elements of Mass Effect 3 that are meant to have non-literal
interpretations. The hope is that these things provide
thought-provoking discussion about the themes of the story and the
motivations of characters. As such, we would prefer not to comment on
players’ interpretations of these elements, since it would ruin the
enjoyment of such discussion by suggesting there is a single, concrete
way of viewing them.

Source: http://social.biowar...2916857-1.html

Ok so if you believe what that guy says, then you are saying that ME3 makes no sense, and therefore is open to whatever the players interpretation is. So the game was made to make no sense intentionally so that you could use your imagination to fill in the story?

...

You're not really much for allegory are you?

[Arian Dynas]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

This thread is so silly.

There is no indoctrination theory - You want to sum up everything about ME3 in two words? Mac Walters. The dude ran the franchise into the ground face first. The catalyst is real, what happens in the game really happens, I'm sorry it's that bad but it is.

Let me quote Bioware employee Tully Auckland for you.

There are elements of Mass Effect 3 that are meant to have non-literal interpretations. The hope is that these things provide thought-provoking discussion about the themes of the story and the motivations of characters. As such, we would prefer not to comment on players’ interpretations of these elements, since it would ruin the enjoyment of such discussion by suggesting there is a single, concrete way of viewing them.

Source: http://social.biowar...2916857-1.html

Ah, I see you found that quote too eh?

Basically, congrats people, we have official endorsement.

[Arian Dynas]

Eryri wrote...

Apologies if you've already discussed this to death, but this thread is way too big to keep track of.

The EC gave us the ability to interrogate the catalyst about the choices, which the fans requested and was very welcome. However we still can't question why the Catalyst looks like the kid from Earth and Shepard's dreams. Shep doesn't bat an eyelid or make the slightest comment. 

We've watched enough sci-fi shows to know that weird incorporeal aliens are supposed to take on familiar forms to interact with lesser mortals, but I doubt Shepard has watched many of the Q episodes from Star Trek TNQ. It's not the sort of thing that happens every day in the Mass Effect universe. He's not even angry that it's assumed the shape of a kid that it vicariously murdered through one of its own creations.

This still seems one of the more dreamlike aspects of the decision chamber - Shepard isn't the least phased by talking to a dead person, just as we sometimes are in dreams.

The fact that they gave us other options to ask questions, but not on this point... ahh I don't know. I just hope they give us some resolution one way or the other at Comic Con. All this speculation is giving me a headache.

Daddy like...

[Arian Dynas]

RampantAndroid wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

DJBare wrote...

SubAstris wrote...
It depends, some are indeed happy.

You assume that everyone will instantly fall in love with IT. I think it is quite a clever idea just not BW's original plan and I think that is shown in the whole game. It is not a matter of preference but what BW actually intended. People who don't like IT aren't pessimists, they are just skeptical of IT as an explanation of events

I don't understand why folk say this, it was their original plan, but they say they had to drop it due to engine limitations, so the idea was theirs, whether they are going to pick it up again is open for debate, but there is no denying they planned it originally.

What I mean by original intention is the "BW's intention for the ending as of the date ME3 came out"

Wait, they planned on IT originally? Documentation?

Check out the final hours of Mass Effect 3, they discuss a sequence they posited where the player would lose control of Shepard due to indoctrination, but couldn't manage to get the mechanics required to work.

No where does it say they abandoned the idea, merely the mechanics, and to be honest, were I running an RPG like Mass Effect for a tabletop group, I would never bother with a mechanic for something like indoctrination, except maybe a method of tracking it. Why bother working out a mechanic when cutting out the middleman and screwing directly with the player is so much simpler?

[paxxton]

Is there a way to save Legion? If not, Tali should die too.

[Arian Dynas]

insomniak9 wrote...

OOH!

The Leviathan DLC leak states about simulations of galactic languages

What if Leviathan will teach us Reaper-speak, just like the Thorian taught us the Cipher on Feros? O.o

Well, every Reaper teaches people Reaperese.

Of course it requires the individual to be indoctrinated.

[Turbo_J]

Salient Archer wrote...

Vaya wrote...

I am inclined to think that Shepard is actually staggering around doing SOMETHING while the citadel scenes are running, so she really does shoot some object that explodes in her face. Whatever you do in synthesis and control seem to more or less just kill you (run over by a train in control, jumping into a recycling vat in synthesis, just guesses).

So more a hallucination opposed to a dream?

I agree and mentioned this about 50 pages ago. We may be doing a video on it, but not sure. It possible that both the run to the beam and the hobble to the decision chamber actually take place at the same time. Full on hallucination, but Shep is active.

Destroy actually blows up a power generator for an indoctrination beacon. This is slightly backed up by the datapad found in the FOB.

[Vaya]

*clipped context*

So more a hallucination opposed to a dream?

At the very least a combination of the two, but I'm leaning towards hallucination.

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

Is there a way to save Legion? If not, Tali should die too.

Legion/Geth VI always die one way or another regardless of what happens. It's a vital part of the theme regarding how synthetics show some of the same characteristics as organics when it comes to things like sacrifice, freedom, and fighting for what you believe in.

Modifié par HellishFiend, 03 juillet 2012 - 12:02 .

[jgibson14352]

Turbo_J wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Vaya wrote...

I am inclined to think that Shepard is actually staggering around doing SOMETHING while the citadel scenes are running, so she really does shoot some object that explodes in her face. Whatever you do in synthesis and control seem to more or less just kill you (run over by a train in control, jumping into a recycling vat in synthesis, just guesses).

So more a hallucination opposed to a dream?

I agree and mentioned this about 50 pages ago. We may be doing a video on it, but not sure. It possible that both the run to the beam and the hobble to the decision chamber actually take place at the same time. Full on hallucination, but Shep is active.

Destroy actually blows up a power generator for an indoctrination beacon. This is slightly backed up by the datapad found in the FOB.

what datapad?

[Arian Dynas]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Hellish: Awesome I get a monocle! *puts on speculation monocle*

And...is Harbinger saying Serve us or save us? I can't make it out.

No one can. That remains one of the problems. I am currently in the camp that says it is not intended to be understood, and is in fact the Reaper Language, spoken several times throughout the game by other Reapers.

[Arian Dynas]

Rosewind wrote...

I need a huge where Lex0r when I need him

Edit: Hug I mean hug....

*TACKLEHUG*

Good enough? 

But Rosewind, our love affair can't go on, we can't keep meeting like this, that's why you''re getting on that plane...

[masster blaster]

Paxxton don't go there with Tali.

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is there a way to save Legion? If not, Tali should die too.

Legion/Geth VI always die one way or another regardless of what happens. It's a vital part of the theme regarding how synthetics show some of the same characteristics of organics when it comes to things like sacrifice, freedom, and fighting for what you believe in.

You mean unnecessary death?

[Arian Dynas]

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...
While you guys are entitled to your opinion, not everyone feels the same. I, for one, am loving the speculation. It's the most enjoyable meta-gaming experience I've ever had. Best part of all? It's free!

I agree, while Bioware have not fullfilled my hopes in the game, it's led to some very good discussions without becoming overly bitter, but I have to say that if Bioware are playing a mind game, they best be real careful how far they take it, because eventually people will turn around and say "I've had enough of this farce"

I've had enough of your farcial speculations!

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is there a way to save Legion? If not, Tali should die too.

Legion/Geth VI always die one way or another regardless of what happens. It's a vital part of the theme regarding how synthetics show some of the same characteristics of organics when it comes to things like sacrifice, freedom, and fighting for what you believe in.

You mean unnecessary death?

Not one for themes, are you?

[Arian Dynas]

DJBare wrote...

paxxton wrote...
We are gearing up for Mass Effect 4, you know. If ever, IT will be revealed in it.

I'd like to finish Shepard's story before I die of old age.

Eh, average human life expectancy is 75 years, you got another two decades or so.

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

Paxxton don't go there with Tali.

She has to go on Rannoch. There's no choice (if she survived ME2).

[RampantAndroid]

But do we know it's the london rubble? I see no real evidence to substantiate that, because what you're saying is that the ending scenes - ostensibly after Shep is dead - mean nothing.

Further, you're equating the idea that the developers wanted to make you indoctrinated at some point to the idea that you're indoctrinated at the end, which is a bad assumption I think. We do not know how they wanted to use that, if at all. I highly doubt they planned to end the series with a "everything you did was pointless, because now you're indoctrinated and the galaxy will burrnnnnnn." Everyone we've seen who was indoctrinated lost control, and was unable to question their decisions.

Further, everything we know about indoctrination is that it must happen while in close proximity to a reaper/reaper tech - and it takes time. How long did it take for the Cerberus team in ME2 to go insane? Or the Batarians who found Leviathon? Or the team in Arrival? It wasn't instantaneous. Honestly, IT seems a stretch at best - no matter what variation of it you pick. The only curious point I see is where is Shep when the post-credits scene happens? And what did the dreams mean? At BEST I could see that the whole thing was a dream, but not Shep being indoctrinated.

[Arian Dynas]

Ryzaki wrote...

*creeps in*

Yeah...I'm leaning towards IT now.

Be gentle?

Don't worry. We promise to love ya gently.

[Jonathan Sud]

paxxton wrote...

Is there a way to save Legion? If not, Tali should die too.

You monster.

[masster blaster]

Sorry I ment no Legion dies either way but Tali cries over Legion so. Hehehe.

[dreamgazer]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

Let me quote Bioware employee Tully Auckland for you.

There are elements of Mass Effect 3 that are meant to have non-literal
interpretations. The hope is that these things provide
thought-provoking discussion about the themes of the story and the
motivations of characters. As such, we would prefer not to comment on
players’ interpretations of these elements, since it would ruin the
enjoyment of such discussion by suggesting there is a single, concrete
way of viewing them.

Source: http://social.biowar...2916857-1.html

Let's try the link again: 
http://social.biowar.../index/12916857 

Hadn't read this. Glad he posted it; it'll let people's imaginations wander, and let them feel justified in doing so.