55528 réponses à ce sujet

[estebanus]

gee, this thread really is sleepy today, isn't it?

[JasonSic]

Anyone know if Major Coats still emits infrasound after the EC was released?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

estebanus wrote...

gee, this thread really is sleepy today, isn't it?

Night before a holiday, prob be slow until the 5th.

[Arian Dynas]

Hey guys, what's new?

Also, you lot have got a funny idea of "slow"

Btw, Estebanus, your new avatar is Fabulous

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 04 juillet 2012 - 06:22 .

[estebanus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Hey guys, what's new?

Also, you lot have got a funny idea of "slow"

Btw, Estebanus, your new avatar is Fabulous

Thanks! It's my first DA2 character. 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Hey guys, what's new?

Also, you lot have got a funny idea of "slow"

Btw, Estebanus, your new avatar is Fabulous

I'd say we're pretty active for a holiday, really, but /shrug. Suppose I'm not in a discussion mood.

[Arian Dynas]

Neither am I tbh. Tired lately, and in my case that's a bad thing, it means something is wrong.

[FreddyCast]

I would like to repost this issue again.
I've heard that Harbinger saying "serve us" is a clue to the IT, reinforcing the idea that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard.
However, I've also heard counter-arguments saying that Harbinger didn't really say "serve us" but instead is just reaper noise. They say that if Harbinger were to say "serve us" it would have to sound like Harbinger's voice but it doesn't sound like his voice. And Shepard has already talked with Harbinger in his Reaper-ship form in the Arrival DLC and the sound "serve us" doesn't sound like Harbinger at all. Also, Each reaper ship has its own clear and distinct voice, like the Reaper destroyer ship in Rannoch or when Shepard talked to the Reaper-ship Sovereign in ME 1.
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

FreddyCast wrote...

I would like to repost this issue again.
I've heard that Harbinger saying "serve us" is a clue to the IT, reinforcing the idea that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard.
However, I've also heard counter-arguments saying that Harbinger didn't really say "serve us" but instead is just reaper noise. They say that if Harbinger were to say "serve us" it would have to sound like Harbinger's voice but it doesn't sound like his voice. And Shepard has already talked with Harbinger in his Reaper-ship form in the Arrival DLC and the sound "serve us" doesn't sound like Harbinger at all. Also, Each reaper ship has its own clear and distinct voice, like the Reaper destroyer ship in Rannoch or when Shepard talked to the Reaper-ship Sovereign in ME 1.
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

Interesting and fair points. But, while it does sound like Reaper noise, it sounds more like he's speaking the Reaper language than just making some random noise. Important to note Reaper Destroyers in game have also made the similar sound.

I personally don't believe he says "Save/Serve/Join us" but I do believe he says something we just don't understand what. Perhaps we're not meant to understand it yet, or it's just something put it in for further speculation purposes...Or, maybe just for the heck of it.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 04 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[Arian Dynas]

FreddyCast wrote...

I would like to repost this issue again.
I've heard that Harbinger saying "serve us" is a clue to the IT, reinforcing the idea that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard.
However, I've also heard counter-arguments saying that Harbinger didn't really say "serve us" but instead is just reaper noise. They say that if Harbinger were to say "serve us" it would have to sound like Harbinger's voice but it doesn't sound like his voice. And Shepard has already talked with Harbinger in his Reaper-ship form in the Arrival DLC and the sound "serve us" doesn't sound like Harbinger at all. Also, Each reaper ship has its own clear and distinct voice, like the Reaper destroyer ship in Rannoch or when Shepard talked to the Reaper-ship Sovereign in ME 1.
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

Well, I personally liked that one implication that it was "Shepard!" distorted and reversed, that Harbinger is adressing his enemy in the Reaper language, which we can only partially understand at this point due to us being only partially indoctrinated.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

I would like to repost this issue again.
I've heard that Harbinger saying "serve us" is a clue to the IT, reinforcing the idea that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard.
However, I've also heard counter-arguments saying that Harbinger didn't really say "serve us" but instead is just reaper noise. They say that if Harbinger were to say "serve us" it would have to sound like Harbinger's voice but it doesn't sound like his voice. And Shepard has already talked with Harbinger in his Reaper-ship form in the Arrival DLC and the sound "serve us" doesn't sound like Harbinger at all. Also, Each reaper ship has its own clear and distinct voice, like the Reaper destroyer ship in Rannoch or when Shepard talked to the Reaper-ship Sovereign in ME 1.
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

Well, I personally liked that one implication that it was "Shepard!" distorted and reversed, that Harbinger is adressing his enemy in the Reaper language, which we can only partially understand at this point due to us being only partially indoctrinated.

Oo I like that one. Kinda falls in line with the Mauraders seemingly saying "Shepard" as they die. Besides, if he was saying something understandable I like to think Bioware would've put his voice actor on it.

[Arian Dynas]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

FreddyCast wrote...

I would like to repost this issue again.
I've heard that Harbinger saying "serve us" is a clue to the IT, reinforcing the idea that the Reapers want to indoctrinate Shepard.
However, I've also heard counter-arguments saying that Harbinger didn't really say "serve us" but instead is just reaper noise. They say that if Harbinger were to say "serve us" it would have to sound like Harbinger's voice but it doesn't sound like his voice. And Shepard has already talked with Harbinger in his Reaper-ship form in the Arrival DLC and the sound "serve us" doesn't sound like Harbinger at all. Also, Each reaper ship has its own clear and distinct voice, like the Reaper destroyer ship in Rannoch or when Shepard talked to the Reaper-ship Sovereign in ME 1.
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

Well, I personally liked that one implication that it was "Shepard!" distorted and reversed, that Harbinger is adressing his enemy in the Reaper language, which we can only partially understand at this point due to us being only partially indoctrinated.

Oo I like that one. Kinda falls in line with the Mauraders seemingly saying "Shepard" as they die. Besides, if he was saying something understandable I like to think Bioware would've put his voice actor on it.

You should. It was your idea.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

You should. It was your idea.

I... Wait what? . . . . cannot remember suggesting that, but I'll take credit why not .


EDIT: OH! the reaper-ese yeah, not the Shepard part that was the first I've heard of it.

Modifié par gunslinger_ruiz, 04 juillet 2012 - 07:11 .

[XXIceColdXX]

This tweet from Merizan gives a strong impression that the Catalyst is in Shepards head.
https://twitter.com/...641232158461952

@JessicaMerizan Aren’t the Reapers in Shepard’s head to some degree since the Catalyst knows to portray itself as the kid Shepard remembers?

She answers.

@LazyTechGuy now that's a ?? that I think is a really interesting (and intentional) discussion point! We know so little about reapers o_O

Not sure if this had been debated to death in here or not, but  the fact that the Catalyst is portrayed as the child while Reapers have no way of knowing about him, according to this tweet it was intentional from Bioware. Therefore yes they are in his head, we just dont know to what degree.

Modifié par XXIceColdXX, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:17 .

[gunslinger_ruiz]

XXIceColdXX wrote...

This tweet from Merizan sort of gives the impression that the Catalyst is in Shepards head.
https://twitter.com/...641232158461952

@JessicaMerizan Aren’t the Reapers in Shepard’s head to some degree since the Catalyst knows to portray itself as the kid Shepard remembers?

She answers.

@LazyTechGuy now that's a ?? that I think is a really interesting (and intentional) discussion point! We know so little about reapers o_O

Not sure if this had been debated to death in here or not, but  the fact that the Catalyst is portrayed as the child while Reapers have no way of knowing about him, according to this tweet it was intentional from Bioware. Therefore yes they are in his head, we just dont know to what degree.

Really don't like taking JessicaMerizan's posts as solid fact but that is a very good point (I see her as a fan just like us, with her own impressions/interpretations, except she gets first looks at things).

I've pointed this out before actually; The Catalyst knows to represent itself as the Child from the beginning and Shepard's Nightmares, so that should confirm that the Catalyst can get inside your head and take out an image or at the very least it confirms the Reapers have been keeping a careful eye on Shepard.

Another point previously brought up: The flash-forwards we see (Anderson and TIM picking their Control/Destroy). They're even expanded in EC. I don't think this is Shepard thinking about what will transpire but the Catalyst putting the idea in Shepard's mind to view. 

If he can take an idea like the Child out, and put the images of your decisions in, what else is he putting in your mind?

[Schachmatt123]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Schachmatt wrote...

The argument wasn't about someone senses indoctrination on Shepard. It was about if someone senses if there is something different about Shepard. And there certainly is.

What's different about Shepard?

Ask Joker. Or Anderson
They are the ones noticing it - and this is what the whole argument is about. So we are talking about established lore in this case.

Sorry I'm not following you here. Anderson and Joker notice Shepard is under heavy stress because of the burden he's holding on his shoulders. They then try to get him back on track when he's hurt from the loss on Thessia. That's my understanding. Are you saying that they're noticing something different?

That's your interpretation. But Anderson and Joker noticed something different about Shepard before Thessia. At this time (at least in my playthrough) Shepard succeded in uniting the Thurians and the Krogans, cured the genophage, united the Geth and Quarians - and epicly destroyed the reaper on Rannoch. Shepard even cited that Harbinger should be aware of "us" comming. Shepard was very optimistic at this point.

And Shepard has been under stress before. And quiet frankly, every other character in the game is now under stress. Andersson witnessing the destruction of earth with all of it's horrors for example. What's noticable different about Shepard now right after Thessia that (s)he is not able to handle stress as well as before.

Modifié par Schachmatt, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Andromidius]

FreddyCast wrote...
Therefore, the "serve us" clue is not a valid evidence for the IT because it is only reaper noise, not actual words.
Is there a counter counter-argument to this? I'm just curious.

1/ Considering Bioware have said that the final parts of the game were carefully crafted to be exactly as they intended, it stands to reason that Harbinger saying anything at all is significant.  The camera focuses in on him, and the ambient noises quieten.  Bioware wanted people to hear it clearly, and speculate.

2/ We've heard other Reapers saying the same words.  This isn't suprising - they are there to indoctrinate.  Blaring "Serve Us!" and other blunt commands while terrifying their prey seems like a decent tactic from their point of view.  The Reapers could destroy everyone with ease if they wanted to, but they appear to be 'going easy' on us and are applying psychological warfare in spades.  Its probably why they land at all, rather then blast people from orbit - they want you to see them, hear them, fear them, and eventually serve them.

3/ This is the first time we've heard Harbinger speak 'in the flesh'.  Every other time it was via a Collector that was being controlled, or hologram (and also I think in Arrival he's projecting through Object Rho?).  If Reapers 'talk' with their sirens it stands to reason that they won't be as elequent as when they are just placing the words into people's heads.

Modifié par Andromidius, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:05 .

[clos]

Anyone who reads through this thread and manages to find the EC ending anywhere near comparable to the possible alternatives is really not thinking things through.

[boeloe]

Andromidius wrote...

3/ This is the first time we've heard Harbinger speak 'in the flesh'.  Every other time it was via a Collector that was being controlled, or hologram (and also I think in Arrival he's projecting through Object Rho?).  If Reapers 'talk' with their sirens it stands to reason that they won't be as elequent as when they are just placing the words into people's heads.

You're forgetting about the reaper on Rannoch, Shepard talks to that one without a proxy.

[Andromidius]

boeloe wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

3/ This is the first time we've heard Harbinger speak 'in the flesh'.  Every other time it was via a Collector that was being controlled, or hologram (and also I think in Arrival he's projecting through Object Rho?).  If Reapers 'talk' with their sirens it stands to reason that they won't be as elequent as when they are just placing the words into people's heads.

You're forgetting about the reaper on Rannoch, Shepard talks to that one without a proxy.

Depends how you look at it.  Its heavily hinted that the Destroyer was using telepathy with Shepard.  It definately easn't using its siren - you hear it during the fight, and its a much different sound.

[Leonia]

Too bad nobody else was on the ground with Shepard to confirm or deny it was telepathic.. which brings up an interesting notion: can everyone communicate with a Reaper like that or just Shepard?

[XXIceColdXX]

Andromidius wrote...

boeloe wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

3/ This is the first time we've heard Harbinger speak 'in the flesh'.  Every other time it was via a Collector that was being controlled, or hologram (and also I think in Arrival he's projecting through Object Rho?).  If Reapers 'talk' with their sirens it stands to reason that they won't be as elequent as when they are just placing the words into people's heads.

You're forgetting about the reaper on Rannoch, Shepard talks to that one without a proxy.

Depends how you look at it.  Its heavily hinted that the Destroyer was using telepathy with Shepard.  It definately easn't using its siren - you hear it during the fight, and its a much different sound.

Its hinted but the way Tali comes and talks to you after your conversation with the Reaper, it seems like she waited paiently till your convo was over to talk.

[Andromidius]

leonia42 wrote...

Too bad nobody else was on the ground with Shepard to confirm or deny it was telepathic.. which brings up an interesting notion: can everyone communicate with a Reaper like that or just Shepard?

Tali and Legion were both nearby.  Both said nothing at all in regards to that (extremely loud) conversation.

Oh, and I expect Shepard was actually talking.

[Leonia]

Andromidius wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Too bad nobody else was on the ground with Shepard to confirm or deny it was telepathic.. which brings up an interesting notion: can everyone communicate with a Reaper like that or just Shepard?

Tali and Legion were both nearby.  Both said nothing at all in regards to that (extremely loud) conversation.

Oh, and I expect Shepard was actually talking.

Yeah forgot about them (and well, Tali was dead in my game so..) but neither of them makes any comment on it one way or another right? That seems.. odd. Squaddies had no trouble saying a few words when Shepard talked to Sovereign.

[TSA_383]

Okay, so, interesting catalyst quotes:

"I was designed to control synthetics, and protect and preserve organic life."
-Supports my "Reapers were the result of an AI created to end war which went rogue..." - maybe we'll get to understand more about it thanks to Leviathan.
Also supported by these Shepard lines:
"The Leviathan's created you, didn't they?"
"But you turned on the Leviathans. You harvested them."

"You will no longer be organic. Your connection to your kind will be lost."
-Talking about control. That "Your connection to your kind will be lost" line is interesting - thoughts?

"Because the organics have been unwilling. It is not something that can be... forced."
-Talking about synthesis - this is why it needs you to believe

Also, is any of this refuse dialog new?
"I made it this far. We'll destroy you without setting it off."
"I'd rather die fighting this war my way, then by some arbitrary choices you've created."
"I'll die knowing that my friends and loved ones can choose their own fates."
"And we will die free. We will die fighting to stop you and everything you stand for."
"And we will die knowing we did everything we could to stop you."
"At least I'll die free."