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Iucounou wrote...
Aha! So this is where all the sensible people are hiding. Glad I found you all.
I was getting a bit tired of reading all the other threads' comments about how the EC proves IT is dead. The lack of logic was most disheartening.
I may lurk here for a while!
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .
Andromidius wrote...
Simon_Says wrote...
By the way, wasn't there that bit where the Shadow Broker worked with the Collectors, knowing that the Collectors were reaper agents, because the Shadow Broker was under the impression that he could broker a deal where he would survive the reaping?
Reminds me of a certain turian we know.
*head explodes*
That fits so well into the narrative that its not even funny (the whole Shadow Broker deal).
Going back to ME1, how does the Shadow Broker know where Saren is and what he's up to? And why does he want Shepard to follow, and so gives the information free of charge? I'm not sure how that fits in...
Modifié par demersel, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:45 .
demersel wrote...
Somewhere here, many-many pages ago i made a long post about how GLYPH is the real shodow broker, and was left behind by the reapers to cultivate civilisations to a certain level, just like the mass realys and the citadel. It has the same color as the catalyst thingy, (only two time we see a hologram like thing of that color) and my thery was that it is the main reason shepard is getting his dreams - glyph being on the normandy slowly indoctrinate the crew. The dreams start right after liara and glyph get picked up on mars.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:48 .
demersel wrote...
That actually fits in perfectly. That was the moment when our YAGH buddy just killed the former shodow broker, and learned about the reapers - he got scared and decided to help stop saren, by passing the information about him to someone, and it so happened that that someone at the moment was shepard.
Modifié par Andromidius, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:51 .
demersel wrote...
I've got a theory. Don't throw rocks at me. Just an opinion. Got really carried away, REALLY Long post. Sorry.
I think that there is a possibility of another Mass Effect game featuring commander shepard.
First let's remember what did they say pre ME3 release -
In one of the early interviews pre E3 2011, right about the time of the Arrival launch, someone did an interview (i think it was casey hudson, but not sure) about upcoming ME3 and the design angle storywise.
I remember some key points from it, (because they left me hopefull and hyped) but am to lazy to find it.
1 - All out galactic war with the Reapers as a setting and background for the story.
2 - Large emphasis on Shepard's story and struggle,
3 - Large focus on the process and nature of indoctrination, never really explained and shown in full in previus games.
4 - The complex main quest would be figuring out the way to beat the reapers, while uniting the galaxy,
5 - The would be different ways and possibilites, some of which could turn out to be false roads. The way to the victory most certainly would not be just pushing an off switch on all reapers, and it won't be some magical device.
With that said - remember, one of the bar-code clues before ME3 reveal, the last of them was Red Herring.
Then we add to it all other known facts, and the IT.
What do we get?
We get ME3 part 2 (whether it is a full game or a DLC not relevant). You know - like in the recent trend with splitting the last part in a huge movie franchise into 2 separate movies. Harry Potter and the deathly hollows parts 1&2, Twillight New Dawn part 1&2 e.t.c.
Thought experiment.
Lets assume for a second - that IT is true. The endings aren't real, and the the last battle - is really a battle of mind (which by the way they stated it is in the collectors edition artbook) - Shepard is fighting for his own identity.
What's our net gain?
1. The war is still far from over, we have not really accomplished anything yet. Reapers are not beaten, earth, and other worlds are not libirated, even the Illusive Man has yet to reveal his plan.
2. Remembering the Red Herring thing crucible is most likely a dudd, It does nothing, or it does something that is for the benefit of the reapers, like blowing up all the mass relays.
Remember. When reapers arrive their tactic is to switch off the mass relay network so they can slowly harvest the devided and isolated planets of the galaxy. But it is never stated that they do it right away or how exactly they do it. What if the crucible plans are hoax planted by reapers so the civilisations in their desperation spent all their efforts building this thing instead of fighting?
3 - storywise it is an ideal split point between parts 1 and 2. what better way to pause the narrative?
Now some major speculation:
1 - Crucible is too convinient. No one knows what it is, what it does, where it originates from, and the plans for it a discovered right at the moment the reaper invasion starts. It is discovered by GLYPH, a VI of uknown origin and age, know for being the shodow broker's assistant, (and really given what we know fro LOSB GLYPH is the real shadow broker.) What is the defining trait of the shodow broker? he helps everyone, though in the process things stay balanced and more or less the same. So his function is to monitor, catalog, cause stagnation - keep thing at certain level. doesn't that sound like cultivating? Remeber what reapers do? They harvest. TLSH - if crucible is real it is lame, cheap and bad writing.. If it is a red herring and a diversion ploy - that would be a really good story.
2 - Reapers can't be beaten by conventional means. Let's think about that. That is really really really thin. We know they can be destroyed. It is extremely difficult, but it can be done. We already killed one reaper in ME1 (which was how by the way? no one seems even remotely interested in that), and during ME3 we did personally kill 3(!!!) small destroyer reapers. Which if you ask me was relatively easy. And then the elephant in the room - INDOCTRINATION. This is the primary reaper tactic, their defining characteristic. There is a catch - omnipotent being doesn't need to indoctrinate anyone. No need. It can do anything, so it just does, not concerning itself with details. just wishes for things to happen. The mere presence of indoctrination as a concept tells us as a fact - Reapers are much easier to beat than they would like us to think. Granted this much easier might be EXTREMELY HARD, but still it is possible, otherwise the would'nt bother with indoctrination and turning people into shock troops. They really wouldn't bother with groundtroops at all. Reapers's tactics is of division and deciet. Of course they posses significant force also,
_____
Come to think of it.... Many times the developers referenced the WWII as a point of inspiration for ME3. Let's think for a moment what hat could mean.
WWII was long an brutal. REALLY LONG. Five years. More so if you start counting from,the september 1, 1939.
Reapers are ****s. Or to be more presise - the Germany.
Then human's are the Soviet Union.
Turians are British.
Asary - America
Salarians - the French.
Batarians - Poland.
The tactic used by the ****s when opening the second front against the soviet union - blietzkrieg - fast crushing strike with a superior force, using the constant momentum for advancing forward, denieng the enemy time to regroup. And it worked. Exactly the same thing reapers did to earth defences, including the arcturus station. But the war didn't end then. It lingered on. And on. And on.
The war with the reapers can't be short. We have yet to see most of it.
Ok, need to stop now.
Andromidius wrote...
demersel wrote...
That actually fits in perfectly. That was the moment when our YAGH buddy just killed the former shodow broker, and learned about the reapers - he got scared and decided to help stop saren, by passing the information about him to someone, and it so happened that that someone at the moment was shepard.
Was it? I thought the Yahg took control earlier. Let me check the wiki quickly...
Hmm. It doesn't give an actual date. Maybe its in the data files on board the Shadow Broker's ship in ME2 LOTSB. It merely says that it was captured and took over after the planet was declared off-limits.
Edit: Ah, found it. It was in power for about 60 years:
"The yahg remained Shadow Broker for the next six decades, and garnered a
fearsome reputation, with many of his agents entering his office and
never coming out.
"
That's exactly what I keep comparing it to...MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
Thanks for clearing this up (and someone else I forget sorry.)DrTsoni wrote...
Turbo_J wrote...
So it seems Liara is psychic. These lines were also in the original ending which leads me to believe the calculations that alter her dialog were there as well. Points at 'more to come' from where I'm sitting.
Shep: "How are the casualties?"
Liara: "No more wounded, if that's what you mean." - Squadies will all be at the wall.
Liara: "We lost people. Some of the wounded here won't make it." - Squadies will be dead/on the wall.
Remember, this is in the FOB before you lose anyone; unless you didn't talk to Cortez. He was alive in all but one of my playthroughs. When I get 'no more wounded' everyone is alive. I've gotten the 'some won't make it' line with Cortez alive. I think I lost Javik and Garrus in that playthrough.
Have to do some testing and see if there are more than two different replies to Shep's question depending on squad interactions and EMS.
It's not EMS, those lines are based solely on how you do with the turret mini-game...thing. I've gotten all of the responses with 8500+ EMS. If you do poorly and quite a few husks get by, she tells you that the wounded won't make it. If you do extremely well, she tells you that no more wounded have been brought in.
MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
demersel wrote...
Andromidius wrote...
demersel wrote...
That actually fits in perfectly. That was the moment when our YAGH buddy just killed the former shodow broker, and learned about the reapers - he got scared and decided to help stop saren, by passing the information about him to someone, and it so happened that that someone at the moment was shepard.
Was it? I thought the Yahg took control earlier. Let me check the wiki quickly...
Hmm. It doesn't give an actual date. Maybe its in the data files on board the Shadow Broker's ship in ME2 LOTSB. It merely says that it was captured and took over after the planet was declared off-limits.
Edit: Ah, found it. It was in power for about 60 years:
"The yahg remained Shadow Broker for the next six decades, and garnered a
fearsome reputation, with many of his agents entering his office and
never coming out.
"
Still could have been scared of reapers and helping to stop them all this time. (they didn't arrive while he was shodow broker, did they? ))
Modifié par Turbo_J, 05 juillet 2012 - 12:05 .
demersel wrote...
Then human's are the Soviet Union.
Turians are British.
Asary - America
Salarians - the French.
Batarians - Poland.
Modifié par Andromidius, 05 juillet 2012 - 12:08 .
DrTsoni wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
"Ah yes, Indoctrination Theory..."
Andromidius wrote...
demersel wrote...
Then human's are the Soviet Union.
Turians are British.
Asary - America
Salarians - the French.
Batarians - Poland.
Actually, I'd disagree with the analogies here.
The Krogan are the Soviet Union - a dangerous but disorganised powerhouse that relies on numbers and brute strength. Needs help from the other allies to gain enough strength to fight back against the rapid advance of the enemy (curing Genophage) and is feared to be the next problem after the Reapers are delt with.
Systems Alliance is the British Empire - comes under heavy assault with their capital world cut off from supplies, but doggedly holds on while alliances are made with the other galaxy powers and continuly mounts counter-offenses all over the galaxy.
The Asari and Turians are equivilent to the United States - both are hesitant to join the united war at first (the Turians are already busy fighting their own war - this doesn't fit with WW2 as well, though America was also helping China fight against Japan before they joined the war - and the Asari are isolating themselves due to gear. Only a swift wake-up call convinces them to throw their lot in with the allied fleets after Thessia is attacked (equivilent, but larger in scope, to Pearl Harbour - it was a massive shock to them).
The Batarians are equivilent to France. Billigerant towards the Systems Alliance, they fought wars against each other in the past but now have a common enemy. The Batarians lose most of the military and all their territory - the few remaining survivors join the allied fleet to help reagain their old power.
Salarians are a bit like Ireland (very loosely) While doing their best to stay out of the fighting, many volenteers go against orders to help the Systems Alliance retake Earth.
Modifié par demersel, 05 juillet 2012 - 12:10 .
Yes.MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
demersel wrote...
That works too. But still Batarians are poland - No one likes them, no one cares about them at the moment, they get hit first.
"It's not right. It looks pretty, calm and peaceful. But it is not right. It is all just an illusion."Turbo_J wrote...
Sometimes I think this whole BSN is wrong.
Think about it. Safe, defensible. It's like there isn't even a war on.
Turbo_J wrote...
Sometimes I think this whole BSN is wrong.
Think about it. Safe, defensible. It's like there isn't even a war on.
Andromidius wrote...
demersel wrote...
That works too. But still Batarians are poland - No one likes them, no one cares about them at the moment, they get hit first.
Poland was allied with Great Britain and France, and basically only existed because of WW1 and the large amounts of territory taken from Germany following their defeat. So I think they were liked.
More then the French at least, who had an impressive army but were caught by suprise and were unable to react in time before being forced to surrender.
Doesn't fit the Batarians perfectly, but... Poland deserves more credit!
No one is being swayed on their opinion on whether IT is right/wrong anymore. There's no point in debating it either way. It's turned into something as ideological as religion and politics.MaximizedAction wrote...
Is us trying to convince others that Shepard was being indoctrinated, the real-world equivalent to Shepard trying to warn the galaxy of the Reaper invasion?
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