55528 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

It seems to be. It's confirmed by Javik that the reapers showed up at the climax of their war with a synthetic civilization. They would have also showed up during the climax of the Geth/Quarian war but got delayed.

Huh. I looked up the zha'til on the ME wiki, and it says this:

Zha'til...

The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.

So, the Reapers turned the zha'til against organics, just like they did with the geth heretics?

Well of course synthetics are always going to turn against organics if you freaking hack them and force them to do so!

Godchild is such a freakin moron.

Hmm. I didn't know about the reaper part. I must have overlooked that. I'll get back to you on that one.

The thing is, I didnt know about that either. I'm not entirely certain the wiki didnt just make that up, since I dont recall Javik mentioning it.

[RavenEyry]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Has anyone seen Henriksen's (Hackett's) interview with G4? In it he mentions that the game "ended abruptly when players lost. Could that possibly be a reference that some of the end choices aren't what they appear to be?

Link to the interview here; don't worry, it's short: http://www.g4tv.com/...ending-content/

It's been out a couple of days so of course we know about it. Thanks anyway though.

[Big Bad]

UrgedDuke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

UrgedDuke wrote...

is it me or does it seem that we lost a big following when the old thread got shut down

The new thread is moving much slower than the last one.

haven't seen much of Lex, Balance, BigBad or SS2Dante in this new thread..... sad really

I am still here, i just haven't had time to post as much lately due to business at work and because i am jn the middle of replaying the series!

[Lord Luc1fer]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

-Guys, could do with a hand with my thread, turns out he ME wiki had been edited for the temperature on aequitas to match up, instead it's likely just a clue that it's based on earth, but I can't work out where the third clue fits into everything....

I'm not on my computer right now, but doesn't the temperature ME3 info ingame match the wiki? Should be, otherwise the wiki is simply wrong.

I just booted up ME2 to check, Aequitas is infact -85 degrees C ingame so it doesn't match up with the clue. The only other thing anyone figured was the coldest place on Earth, -128.6 F, which is .1 difference from the clue but hey close. It is odd they'd have 2 Earth centric hints, the Iron and the temperature, though so maybe one meant something else. What was the third clue? SIS/MI6 website? Could be a clue to London being important, or "espionage".

I believe due to the way temperature scales work (something working around the triple point of water being at 0.1 degree above freezing) the centigrade and celsuis scales actually differ by 0.1 degree

[EDIT] only doing A Level physics atm, you genii feel free to shoot me down at any time!

Modifié par Lord Luc1fer, 21 mai 2012 - 09:55 .

[TheConstantOne]

RavenEyry wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Has anyone seen Henriksen's (Hackett's) interview with G4? In it he mentions that the game "ended abruptly when players lost. Could that possibly be a reference that some of the end choices aren't what they appear to be?

Link to the interview here; don't worry, it's short: http://www.g4tv.com/...ending-content/

It's been out a couple of days so of course we know about it. Thanks anyway though.

Sure.  Of course a couple days probably means about 20 pages or more ago.  I'm too busy to slog through all the comments.  I wasn't sure if that remark of his had been considered

[HyperGlass]

You know the confrontaion with TIM does anyone notice the traffic moving in the background? I'm not so sure what went on but you'd think it would be evacuated or the Reapers would have destroyed them all.

[RavenEyry]

TheConstantOne wrote...

Sure.  Of course a couple days probably means about 20 pages or more ago.  I'm too busy to slog through all the comments.  I wasn't sure if that remark of his had been considered

A few of us occasionally leave the thread to forage for supplies, so rest assured, if BSN knows about it, we know about it.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

I wasnt saying the Catalyst would still be around, I was just saying after a few million years of seeing organics create and subsequently be wiped out by synthetics (which, according to godchild will definitely happen, cause thats how synthetics are), who is to say Shep wont eventually start thinking maybe godchild was right all along?

First: unless being turned half-synthetic eliminated laziness, we're gonna build new synthetics.

Second: There was really no threat from the geth anymore either. The quarians had almost wiped them out before the Reapers interfered. Whether the synthetics actually pose a threat doesnt really seem to matter to the Reapers.

1) Because Shepard fought the last three or four years of his life against that kind of threat. Why would he then want to repeat the same patterns he originally found disgusting?

Also, you're assuming that the reapers go away and never return. Not really. Shepard is a master negotiator and peacemaker, if you went the paragon route. He'd do great policing the galaxy with an unbeatable reaper army. 

2) Perhaps laziness is a thing of the past, just like obesity seems to be. And no the geth were no big threat to the galaxy. But that doesn't mean that the geth would be the ones to end the galaxy. The reapers show up before it happens and it becomes difficult to control. We know the reapers don't see the geth as a threat as Harbinger calls them a limited utility. AI's like EDI are much more dangerous.

One more time though, none of that matters if it was a dream, it never happened. The reapers are not controlled by shepard, they are not synthesized or destroyed at the end of the game.

[balance5050]

I don't think "policing the galaxy" would be a Paragon move.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

It seems to be. It's confirmed by Javik that the reapers showed up at the climax of their war with a synthetic civilization. They would have also showed up during the climax of the Geth/Quarian war but got delayed.

Huh. I looked up the zha'til on the ME wiki, and it says this:

Zha'til...

The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.

So, the Reapers turned the zha'til against organics, just like they did with the geth heretics?

Well of course synthetics are always going to turn against organics if you freaking hack them and force them to do so!

Godchild is such a freakin moron.

Hmm. I didn't know about the reaper part. I must have overlooked that. I'll get back to you on that one.

The thing is, I didnt know about that either. I'm not entirely certain the wiki didnt just make that up, since I dont recall Javik mentioning it.

This is why I never heard about the reaper thing. Seems like it happened way before the reaper invasion.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

1) Because Shepard fought the last three or four years of his life against that kind of threat. Why would he then want to repeat the same patterns he originally found disgusting?

For the same reason she randomly decided to join them instead of destroy them at the last moment, I'd suppose.

EpyonX3 wrote...

Also, you're assuming that the reapers go away and never return. Not really. Shepard is a master negotiator and peacemaker, if you went the paragon route. He'd do great policing the galaxy with an unbeatable reaper army. 

Indoctrination is still a thing. I doubt controlling the Reapers would remove their indoctrinating effect. Sending Reapers about to solve problems would likely indoctrinate quite a few people. Plus, it effectively makes Shepard sole supreme overlord of the galaxy, giving her the final say in all disputes, which is kind of silly.

Plus, turning the Reapers into a peace-keeping force for good is almost as insulting to the awesomeness that they were in the first two games as turning them into toys for godchild to play with was.

EpyonX3 wrote...

One more time though, none of that matters if it was a dream, it never happened. The reapers are not controlled by shepard, they are not synthesized or destroyed at the end of the game.

Right, but I'm discussing the literal endings with you, because last I checked you werent a supporter of IT, Epyon. Am I mistaken?

[TheConstantOne]

RavenEyry wrote...

TheConstantOne wrote...

Sure.  Of course a couple days probably means about 20 pages or more ago.  I'm too busy to slog through all the comments.  I wasn't sure if that remark of his had been considered

A few of us occasionally leave the thread to forage for supplies, so rest assured, if BSN knows about it, we know about it.

Haha noted 

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

I wasnt saying the Catalyst would still be around, I was just saying after a few million years of seeing organics create and subsequently be wiped out by synthetics (which, according to godchild will definitely happen, cause thats how synthetics are), who is to say Shep wont eventually start thinking maybe godchild was right all along?

If after those years Shepard saw exactly what the Starkid said would happen wouldn't that mean he was right?

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 10:11 .

[RavenEyry]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

I wasnt saying the Catalyst would still be around, I was just saying after a few million years of seeing organics create and subsequently be wiped out by synthetics (which, according to godchild will definitely happen, cause thats how synthetics are), who is to say Shep wont eventually start thinking maybe godchild was right all along?

If after those years Shepard saw exactly what the Starkid said would happen wouldn't that mean he was right?

What, an isolated incident of an AI rebelling? One rebellion != all Ais will always rebel

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

I wasnt saying the Catalyst would still be around, I was just saying after a few million years of seeing organics create and subsequently be wiped out by synthetics (which, according to godchild will definitely happen, cause thats how synthetics are), who is to say Shep wont eventually start thinking maybe godchild was right all along?

If after those years Shepard saw exactly what the Starkid said would happen wouldn't that mean he was right?

Well, choosing anything but destroy means you've already admitted the godchild was right anyways.

I personally dont think synthetics would wipe out organics, but thats why I choose destroy and end the Reapers once and for all, not control them just in case it happens, or homogenize the entire galaxy to prevent it from happening.

Modifié par byne, 21 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[HyperGlass]

Well I'm off for the night. Remember Big Ben when you Shep wakes up will ya?

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

For the same reason she randomly decided to join them instead of destroy them at the last moment, I'd suppose.

Indoctrination is still a thing. I doubt controlling the Reapers would remove their indoctrinating effect. Sending Reapers about to solve problems would likely indoctrinate quite a few people. Plus, it effectively makes Shepard sole supreme overlord of the galaxy, giving her the final say in all disputes, which is kind of silly.

Plus, turning the Reapers into a peace-keeping force for good is almost as insulting to the awesomeness that they were in the first two games as turning them into toys for godchild to play with was.

Right, but I'm discussing the literal endings with you, because last I checked you werent a supporter of IT, Epyon. Am I mistaken?

1) I wouldn't say it was random, destroying the reapers would kill tech that people are dependent on and it would kill the geth, which are saving the quarians if you went that route and EDI. Why not just stop the reapers and preserve all of the tech to prevent any more lives from being lost?

2) Not unless you use hollograms as communication like Soveriegn and Harbinger did.

3) Perhaps, but that's what we may have gotten. I would have prefered the reapers to be matrix like machines who use us as batteries and destroy was the only option.

4) I don't support it 100% because there are several things I disagree with in the theory. Doesn't mean it's flat out false. I like the idea of IT. I'm most interested in plots that achieve this kind of twist, but I feel that if it is true, it was done very poorly. I'd like to know my head was being messed with, not guess at the possiblility that it might have.

[RavenEyry]

EpyonX3 wrote...
-snip-

As I keep saying, we don't know 1 for sure.

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...


1) I wouldn't say it was random, destroying the reapers would kill tech that people are dependent on and it would kill the geth, which are saving the quarians if you went that route and EDI. Why not just stop the reapers and preserve all of the tech to prevent any more lives from being lost?

Is it just me or does the fact that destroy destroys more than just the Reapers seem really shoehorned in, just so they can try to make destroy not seem like the unequivocal best choice? I mean even if IT isnt true, and destroy works as promised, it seems like they threw in all that destroying the geth/EDI/certain tech just to make it seem like a less appealing option, and not necessarily because it actually made sense.

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

I wasnt saying the Catalyst would still be around, I was just saying after a few million years of seeing organics create and subsequently be wiped out by synthetics (which, according to godchild will definitely happen, cause thats how synthetics are), who is to say Shep wont eventually start thinking maybe godchild was right all along?

If after those years Shepard saw exactly what the Starkid said would happen wouldn't that mean he was right?

Well, choosing anything but destroy means you've already admitted the godchild was right anyways.

I personally dont think synthetics would wipe out organics, but thats why I choose destroy and end the Reapers once and for all, not control them just in case it happens, or homogenize the entire galaxy to prevent it from happening.

You're mixing 2 interpretations.
Literal:
1. Control gives Shepard an opportunity to undo the Reapers' deeds.
2. Synthesis makes the whole discussion irrelevant because there's no more Organics/Synthetics division after it.
3. Destroy is just destroy. The most straightforward resolution to the conflict.
IT:
1. Control/Synthesis - indoctrination
2. Destroy - spiritual freedom

[RavenEyry]

paxxton wrote...

You're mixing 2 interpretations.
Literal:
1. Control gives Shepard an opportunity to undo the Reapers' deeds.
2. Synthesis makes the whole discussion irrelevant because there's no more Organics/Synthetics division after it.
3. Destroy is just destroy. The most straightforward resolution to the conflict.
IT:
1. Control/Synthesis - indoctrination
2. Destroy - spiritual freedom

Literal shouldn't say those things because as I keep saying we don't know for sure.

[blooregard]

Hmm I just got through Thessia and after listening to Vendetta talk about how the Reapers are "subject to the will of a higher being" (paraphrased) I started to think.

Vendetta says that the crucible was sabotaged by a splinter faction that wanted to control the Reapers and later they were found to be indoctrinated.

Cerberus was found to be using Reaper tech on their infantry and Vendetta confirms that Kai Leng (a Cerberus operative) is in fact indoctrinated

Jack Harper came into indirect contact with a hardcore Indoctrination device (if I recall correctly that gave him his eyes) and thus he became TIM and headed Cerberus

If that's the case then Vendetta's assumption that the Reapers are bent by a higher power (the catalyst?) is mistaken as the Reapers have been the ones to blame for the splinter faction.

If this is the case then that would obviously mean that the Catalyst (A.K.A. the kid that controls the Reapers) is very blatantly lying to you because if the comics are anything to prove the Reapers have no master and they've been in control of galactic events.

Another thing I'd like to point out is the metacon wars and the Eden Prime war/morning war.

The metacon war (what little we know about it) was against a race that didn't want to so they became synthetic and they went to war against the Prothean empire right before the Reaper invasion. now lets skip to the cause of the morning war: the Geth didn't want to be exterminated and thus rebelled against the Quarians and drove them off their worlds. Its not the same but its a very similar situation to the race that started the metacon wars.

Skip ahead a few hundred years the Eden Prime war the Synthetic race fighting the organic races and it lead up to the (prevented) Reaper invasion. We all know that the Eden Prime war was orchestrated almost entirely by Sovereign. Saren's only use was undoing the Prothean sabotage done to the citadel and thus had no other use and if you recall the Geth worshiped Sovereign and for all we know cooperated with Saren as he was Sovereign's pawn. Now lets go back to the morning war. I'm sure we remember the "does this unit have a soul" quote made by Legion/ other Geth notice anything odd about the quote (this is where I really start grasping at straws but bear with me) the "this unit" is implying that the Geth that asked that question was an individual as when ever we talk to Legion he refers to himself as "we" right up until his death. The only other time we saw the Geth as individuals are when they were upgraded with Reaper code (though in the case of the morning war Geth it was probably a very simple form of the Reaper code needed to give them awareness and nothing more).


Well my rant is done but if you have no patience to read its basically suggesting that the Catalyst is very obviously lying to you as there is nothing in the series that supports the Reapers being "subject to the will of a higher being" and in fact many things point towards the Reapers being in fact responsible for many of the galactic events.

[paxxton]

RavenEyry wrote...

paxxton wrote...

You're mixing 2 interpretations.
Literal:
1. Control gives Shepard an opportunity to undo the Reapers' deeds.
2. Synthesis makes the whole discussion irrelevant because there's no more Organics/Synthetics division after it.
3. Destroy is just destroy. The most straightforward resolution to the conflict.
IT:
1. Control/Synthesis - indoctrination
2. Destroy - spiritual freedom

Literal shouldn't say those things because as I keep saying we don't know for sure.

We unfortunately don't know anything for sure before BioWare confirms or denies it. And even then who knows if they meant it?

IT is better because it guarantees further gameplay/cutscenes after the current ending.

Modifié par paxxton, 21 mai 2012 - 10:34 .

[Salient Archer]

 Shameless bump [play my guessing game dammit]

Ok, I've been looking into some of the indoctrinated that have appeared throughout the Mass Effect series. Although I haven't included everyone I have included a cross section from within the series, I'm not going to spoon-feed you what I've noticed by looking over the lists, the actual point of these posts is to see if anyone else can see the clear patterns that I'm starting to see.

<2157>
Ben Hislop
-Pro-human soldier who fought in the first contact war.
-Has direct contact with the reaper artifact: Arch Monolith
-Contact turns him into a husk but still has some semblance of his personality.
-Despite signs of his previous self being present, the Arch Monolith controls him.

Jack Harper
-The illusive man.
-Powerful and influential pro-human leader of Cerberus.
-Is subtly indoctrinated by the Arch Monolith via indirect contact.
-Is permanently affected by the Arch Monolith, altering his eyes, his thought patterns and granting him the powers to sense Reaper Artifacts and also to speak alien dialects including that of the Reapers.
-Is obsessed with human dominance and controlling the Reapers.

Desolas Arterius
-Powerful and influential Turian General.
-Obsessed with Turian dominance.
-Obsessed with using the Arch Monolith to create super soldiers.
-Is shown to be able to speak Reaper [a sign of contact]
-Initially has indirect contact with the Arch Monolith to later have directly touched it.


Saren Arterius
-Incredibly famous and influential Turian Spectre.
-The youngest Turian ever accepted into the Spectres.
-Pro-Turian and very outspoken opponent of humanity.
-Has proximity to the Arch Monolith, although not shown to be indoctrinated.
-Indoctrination possibly initiated in either 2157 due to proximity to the Arch Monolith or in 2165 when in contact with the Artifact recovered from Edan Had’dah.

<2162>
Edan Had’dah
-Influential and incredibly wealthy Batarian aristocrat and entrepreneur.
-Like most Batarians is xenophobic and expressly anti-human.
-Subtly indoctrinated by an uncovered Reaper Artifact.
-Due to indoctrination he was obsessed with unlocking the artifacts secrets to the point of putting aside his hatred of humans to seek the help of Alliance scientist Dr.Shu Qian.

Dr. Shu Qian
-Alliance head scientist in-charge of developing and understanding AI.
-Indoctrinated by the Reaper Artifact uncovered by Had’dah.
-Indoctrination made him obsessed with unlocking it’s secrets.
-Obsession lead him to have all of his workers and staff murdered.

<2183>
Matriarch Benezia
-influential and powerful Asari Matriarch
-Believed that Asari should be the pinnacle of life in the galaxy.
-Tried to dissuade Saren from his destructive path only to be indoctrinated.
-Indoctrinated due to proximity and contact to Sovereign.
-Was able to protect part of her mind from being indoctrinated.

<2185>
Dr. Amanda Kenson
-Noted scientist form the university of Arcturus.
-Notable for discovering that mass relays pre-dated the Portheans.
-Kenson and her entire staff are Indoctrinated by Object Rho-Was dissuaded from destroying the Alpha relay due to indoctrination [despite being just a button push away]
-Tried everything in her power to stop Shepard from launching an asteroid into the Alpha Relay.
-Was possibly used to lure Shepard to Object Rho.

Commander Shepard
-First Human Spectre.
-Influential N7 marine and leader.
-Stopped rogue spectre Saren.-Instrumental in stoping Geth Heretics.
-Instrumental in stoping Reaper vanguard Sovereign.
-Neutralized the collector threat.
-Was resurrected-Spearhead of the Alliance.
-United the known galaxy against the Reapers
-Symbol of Hope, Triumph and Strength.
-Has been in contact with more Reapers and Reaper artifacts than all previously mentioned on the list. Including Artifacts, objects, bases and even derelict and living Reapers themselves.

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

You're mixing 2 interpretations.
Literal:
1. Control gives Shepard an opportunity to undo the Reapers' deeds.
2. Synthesis makes the whole discussion irrelevant because there's no more Organics/Synthetics division after it.
3. Destroy is just destroy. The most straightforward resolution to the conflict.

1: I dont care what Shepard does with the Reapers. Nothing at all justifies all the genocides the Reapers have committed (Quick math: oldest known Reaper? One billion years old. One billion divided by 50,000? 20,000. The Reapers have committed at least 20,000 genocides.)

2: Synthesis makes the whole discussion irrelevant, sure, but thats only because you've agreed to even have the discussion with godchild in the first place. You agreed to his way of thinking and took his way out to solve it. That holds true even if you dont consider IT.