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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#40051
HellishFiend

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Starbinger: "We were created to stop synthetics killing organics"
Shepard: "What happened to your creators?"
Starbinger: "We killed them and made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Ooooookkkkkaaaayyyy....." *backs away*


Honestly I dont know how BW could have made it any more obvious that Starbinger can't be trusted. The more he says, the more he puts his foot in his mouth. 

Lol did you read what I said above?


Yep, gotta wonder how many other contradictions he thinks are inevitable.  <_<

#40052
TJBartlemus

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 

Could be. But Coats never had a helmet. There was one marine who put his on. I know it was in a cutscene but still.


Of course he didn't. For the character they would make sure the helmet was off, and for all troopers they made sure the helmet mod is on. It's pretty simple in a technical perspective. Also notice that the body next to Coates is the comms officer?? Coincidence??

#40053
Rosewind

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BansheeOwnage wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Starbinger: "We were created to stop synthetics killing organics"
Shepard: "What happened to your creators?"
Starbinger: "We killed them and made them into a reaper"
Shepard: "Ooooookkkkkaaaayyyy....." *backs away*


Honestly I dont know how BW could have made it any more obvious that Starbinger can't be trusted. The more he says, the more he puts his foot in his mouth. 

Lol did you read what I said above?


Yeah but that's how I heard that whole scene it honestly made me laugh, it wasn't subtle at all if you didn't get that bit as a hint you must be a <something not very smart>

#40054
Vaya

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


Its worth looking into, but the fact that they added it and it's a "look at me" moment is enough for me. I'm also fairly sure that the guy in the beret on the pile behind him is one of the senior officers from the FOB, but I haven't gone searching for him yet. I'm thinking either the one on the corner in the street or at the officers meeting before the last push starts.

#40055
masster blaster

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L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

So with the Memorial scene I noticed that garrus isn't there one second and then he magically is there later when you can clearly see he wasn't there before. I don't know how it ties in but it's a little wierd of garrus to not be there at all then suddenly show up.



Also I'm posting this piece of evidence again because it also relates to the memorial ending

What if the memorial scene at the end is meant to represent shepard's mind? If you pick destory you choose right and weren't indoctrinated, so your LI doesn't put your name up. If you pick control or synthesis you lose  your mind to the reapers, thus you are put on the wall since you are basically dead.
Just a thought but I'd like to hear what you guys think of it.


I thinl so as well, but I also think that if you have Weave instead of Wrex leading the Krogan ( which I hate the fact that people killed Wrex) is not starting the Rebeloins again if you did not sabotage the cure in either Destroy, Control, and Synthesis.
Also I think that all of the Epilogue is Shepard forshadowing his/her acions that She/he made in his/her life.

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."

#40056
TJBartlemus

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zigamortis wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 

Why not make it a background character then?


I don't know what BioWare's intentions are. I just know what they did. As I said before. I've seen it before. Gears of War. The character in the first game was the base of the model and then they just added a helmet. 

#40057
Rosewind

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lex0r11 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

[...]

Are you comparing me to Liara? Cause I am more like Kasumi but italian lol



Oh no, when I post motivators it's mostly because of what activity it represents. Sorry if I.. wait.

You are a Italian Kasumi? Hmm..

*distracted*

What? Oh, um.
I'll work on something for the next time.


Lol you could say it if I was in the ME universe I would be a Infiltrator thief, but I am Italian not Japanese.


Well you can be anything you want for all I care.. :innocent:



Oh, and I have to practice for the next celebration page.


<Insert Liara dirty thought meme here>

#40058
tkeloise

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Vaya wrote...


IT rests on the fact that that conflict is a false dichotomy brought through indoctrination to corrupt Shepard and stop her from destroying the reapers. In ME1, at the end of the end of the Geth invasion side mission, the Geth are watching a video of a Quarian mourning the lost homeworld, the seeds of reconcilliation without space magic and mad AI's are allready there.

Reapers exist to reap, we are bacteria to them.


Good point. Under scrutiny, Starbinger's argument has no basis in the ME universe, yet seemed to be quite successful fooling many players.

#40059
TJBartlemus

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Vaya wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


Its worth looking into, but the fact that they added it and it's a "look at me" moment is enough for me. I'm also fairly sure that the guy in the beret on the pile behind him is one of the senior officers from the FOB, but I haven't gone searching for him yet. I'm thinking either the one on the corner in the street or at the officers meeting before the last push starts.


Nope he is the comms officer. You go to him to talk to your old squadmates like Jacob and Miranda.

Edit: He is also the trooper when you arrive to the FOB that says that Hammer has arrived but not as many as they hoped. Remember??

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:15 .


#40060
BleedingUranium

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


I doubt it. Ever notice the camera always cuts away when a character either puts on or takes off their helmet? That's because they're seperate models. Since normal soldier's visors aren't transparent, like the MP Engy and Infiltrator, I doubt there's anything at all under the helmets.

#40061
Leonia

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masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?

#40062
Vaya

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Nope he is the comms officer. You go to him to talk to your old squadmates like Jacob and Miranda.

Edit: He is also the trooper when you arrive to the FOB that says that Hammer has arrived but not as many as they hoped. Remember??


Interesting, people were raising questions about the improbability of our conversations with old friends at the FOB earlier.

#40063
TJBartlemus

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BleedingUranium wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


I doubt it. Ever notice the camera always cuts away when a character either puts on or takes off their helmet? That's because they're seperate models. Since normal soldier's visors aren't transparent, like the MP Engy and Infiltrator, I doubt there's anything at all under the helmets.


Except a generic soldier that never takes of their helmet wouldn't need a new model. Just a helmet. Multiplayer is an entirely different realm of programming and design that sp people mainly don't touch. Programmers also do strange things. Like this:


Modifié par TJBartlemus, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .


#40064
masster blaster

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masster blaster wrote...

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

So with the Memorial scene I noticed that garrus isn't there one second and then he magically is there later when you can clearly see he wasn't there before. I don't know how it ties in but it's a little wierd of garrus to not be there at all then suddenly show up.



Also I'm posting this piece of evidence again because it also relates to the memorial ending

What if the memorial scene at the end is meant to represent shepard's mind? If you pick destory you choose right and weren't indoctrinated, so your LI doesn't put your name up. If you pick control or synthesis you lose  your mind to the reapers, thus you are put on the wall since you are basically dead.
Just a thought but I'd like to hear what you guys think of it.


I think so as well, but I also think that if you have Weave instead of Wrex leading the Krogan ( which I hate the fact that people killed Wrex) is not starting the Rebeloins again if you did not sabotage the cure in either Destroy, Control, and Synthesis.
Also I think that all of the Epilogue is Shepard forshadowing his/her acions that She/he made in his/her life.

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."



#40065
Rosewind

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leonia42 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?


Before the EC when he talks about Destroy he mentions the geth (he might of mentioned EDI to but cant remember) will be destroyed but with the EC he doesn't well he didn't for me.

#40066
Arian Dynas

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 So now it seems if I want Gamble to give me that job with the big BW I've got FOUR DLCs to write scripts for.
For your collective amusement, and a bit of fun;

Mass Effect: Awakening - Two weeks. It's been two weeks since the Seige of Earth. Two long, hard weeks. 

They found you. Barely alive, your body torn and burned, your armor shredded, your mind nearly broken. In two weeks, the allied forces have been able to recover. The Crucible saved you in your darkest hour.

But while the front lines may have left you behind, the war is far from over.

Play as either Shepard or a new character, exploring the mystery of the Commander's disappearance! Has the war truly come to an end? Is this cycle doomed?

Has our greatest champion fallen?



Mass Effect: Resurrection - The Reapers, seeking a more efficient method of controlling their troops in combat, have

begun work on a new project, creating a new type of ground troop, derived from multiple species, Human, Turian,

Batarian and several others. The purpose of this new soldier? To act as a ground infantry commander, allowing their
forces to more efficiently co-ordinate without constant Reaper supervision. 

Your mission? Get into the defiled and horrific Reaper laboratory and kill the guarding Destroyer, blowing up the lab and killing the protoype.

And you arrive just in time... for the protoype to defect. It's guiding intelligence, repurposed from a collected Reaper
memory core, chose to defy it's masters and now seeks asylum.

The name of this intelligence guiding this Frankenstenian body made from the remains of Turians, Humans and Asari?

Saren Arterius.


Mass Effect: Firebird - The Alliance has received a number of disturbing reports about a small planet on the far end of the Terminus Systems, the small orbiting blue orb known as Herodotus. Cerberus, in their constant search for Prothean technology, have set up a base, which up to this point had gone largely unnoticed.

Under orders from the Illusive Man, Project Phoenix had begun work here, their mission, to take recovered Prothean tech and integrate it into studies of transhuman enhancement, creating amazingly powerful biotics.

At least, so Alliance Intelligence thought from the reports received from Cerberus defectors in the Phoenix program. In reality the truth was far darker. Cerberus had discovered a thus far unprecedented number of intact, Prothean stasis pods, leading them to preform tests, and eventually genetic experiments, splicing Prothean DNA into Human bodies, shortening the lifespans of these volunteers considerably and leaving them requiring a constant flow of anti-rejection drugs, but vastly improving their biotic potential.

In response to the considerable threat, the Reapers, having now received word of Project Phoenix, have sent one of the last remaining Collector ships as a scout to seize the installation and prepare it for reaping.

Your mission? Infiltrate Project Phoenix, eliminate the Cerberus presence, allowing the Alliance to seize the base, rescue and evacuate the Prothean population, and destroy the Collector Ship.


Mass Effect: Operation Neptune - A routine mission is what it should have been, should have being the operative word. Under orders from Admiral Hackett you picked up an asari ambassador, returning to the Citadel from negotiations with several mercenary groups, pick up and return, simple enough on it's own.

Well, the fact that the ambassador's name was Aethyta complicated things slightly.

Everything would have been fine had one of the matriarch's retinue not been a traitor. The Tantalus Drive Core, sabotaged. The Normandy? Dropped out of FTL in the most inconvenient place imaginable, waiting like a beached whale for a Reaper to find her. Of course Cerberus had far more direct plans for reclaiming their lost investment, in this case, Operation Neptune, the invasion of the Normandy.

Your mission? Fight off the Assassin attempting to murder you in your bed! Make your way to the Tantalus core and reactivate it! Rescue your crew! Discover the nature of the traitor! Fight off a Cerberus invasion of your own ship! Return to the Citadel and have an entire refit for the Normandy! New rooms! New features! New shipmates! And a new weapon!

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 06 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .


#40067
BansheeOwnage

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BleedingUranium wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


I doubt it. Ever notice the camera always cuts away when a character either puts on or takes off their helmet? That's because they're seperate models. Since normal soldier's visors aren't transparent, like the MP Engy and Infiltrator, I doubt there's anything at all under the helmets.

Right. Forgot about that.

#40068
masster blaster

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leonia42 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?


Yep and people can not see why the endings makes no sense if you look at the ending outside the box. Instead of just believeing in what they saw.

" Seeing is believeing."

#40069
HellishFiend

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BleedingUranium wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Vaya wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

Hmm why would coates be on the citadel, granted you can't see him without flycam, but doesnt change tha fact that he IS there. Bioware mist have KNOWN ppl were going to tear these scenes apart, and they blatantly left coates on the citadel getting his helmet removed by a keeper, then during the *head desk* slideshow, coates is front and center alive and healthy. Wha.. What?!


People will say it's an easter egg, it can't be seen in a normal play though without "cheating". What is more telling to me is the mechanical noise when Shepard is awoken on arrival. It is a CLEAR indication of outside manipulation. It's just not as obvious.


Well, it could be more simple than that. Maybe all troopers w/ helmet on are designed like coates?? It's nothing new. It's been done before. Gears of War. All the Helmeted troopers were one character from the story underneath. It makes sense from a production standpoint because why waste time creating a new template and just simply make a tiny change like adding a helmet. Normally in the game no one would notice. With a little tweaking it is easy to find out the truth though. 


I doubt it. Ever notice the camera always cuts away when a character either puts on or takes off their helmet? That's because they're seperate models. Since normal soldier's visors aren't transparent, like the MP Engy and Infiltrator, I doubt there's anything at all under the helmets.


I believe this is accurate. In fact, I think that most of the helmets are actually too small. Unless they were paper thin, there is no way that a head could even fit in them. They are just normal head-sized helmets. Style over realism, in this case. 

Probly for the best, because I'm sure we dont want to be running around looking like this:

Posted Image

#40070
Simon_Says

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leonia42 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?

Not to mention that if Shepard could be brought back from the dead, then it stands to reason that synthetics can as well.

#40071
Nightingale

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leonia42 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?


In theory, EDI isn't "dead" in the way that Destroy defines her as. Not all technology is destroyed and, since EDI is the Normandy in addition to being the rogue Luna AI, she shouldn't have been completely obliterated. I was under the impression the Geth and EDI were destroyed because of their Reaper code, but both could survive without. I could be wrong, in which case, please correct me, but it just seems off that not only do they not show the Geth (or EDI) dying when they clearly could have several times (such as on Earth with the Husks or in the slideshow), they don't even mention it in the "epilogue." Hackett saying they suffered many loses is too vague to know for sure. EDI's name on the wall could even be disputed.

Also, why did Hackett know Shepard made it onto the Citadel? Coats still says everyone was wiped out...

#40072
Auralius Carolus

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Arian's writing soap opera scripts again!

#40073
TJBartlemus

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Well regarding the helmet and coates, I think it would be smart for someone with tech ability to check if Coates is really the generic base for Alliance soldiers. I would but I lack the computor version of ME3. And the application w/ the ability to do that.

#40074
lex0r11

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Don't mind me.

Posted Image

Enough practice for today.

#40075
Auralius Carolus

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Simon_Says wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and is it weird that in Destroy we don't see Synthetics being created since the Catalyst said " Soon your children will create Synthetics and the Cycle will start all over again."


Nor do we see synthetics destroyed other than the Reapers which is a big "Hey wait wasn't the EC supposed to clarify big things like that?" sort of deal. We don't actually see EDI or the geth being disabled/destroyed. It's heavily implied but it's not shown. Why not, they added lots of other clarifying bits like the Normandy's escape and Hackett knowing that Shepard is on the Citadel, why not be clear about the consequences to Destroy?

Not to mention that if Shepard could be brought back from the dead, then it stands to reason that synthetics can as well.


EDI's name will appear on the wall if you choose destroy. Apparently there isn't enough space magic to save her.