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[Auralius Carolus]

Priss Blackburne wrote...


posting this here from another thread I posted this in since it's related to IT in a way

Uh just had a crazy thought..Geth are software...if you make peace they even started uploading into Quarian suits to mimic diseases to help them build up their immunity. Doesn't that imply that some Geth will survive since they are software. The biggest thing is the beam will destroy synthetic life, supposedly targeting reaper tech in Edi and the geth. So the Geth in the Quarian suits would still survive since they are nothing more then software?

so ...the beam scans all computer software and if it detects life it zaps it...but leaves any other software alone?

They are not housed in a synthetic body of any type just a computer attached to a suit. Remember Geth frames are made up of many programs running in uinison. Like a reaper is a nation onto itself.

I can believe that the beam would target reaper like synthetic life, but as synthetic life is very similiar to computers and starships. Basicly just Software housed in a metal frame.

I find it very hard to believe the beam is able to differentiate from different types of software. leaving most computer in starships for flight and control alone and only targeting anything that might be an AI.

A sentient computer program while very complex would still be down to it's primary code a set of software instructions. otherwise the frame it is housed it would no longer be able to process it's signals or store it's data in memory .

I can't help but think after following that thought process is that the only reason they are dead is because we are told by the catalyst they will die.

Same goes for EDI since she is also software housed in the normandy mainframe and I believe she can't be unplugged easly since she's so integrated into the flight and control systems she would need to be there for normandy to be able to fully function in a combat scenario. So part of Her would still have to exist on the normandy in some way at the very least I think.

The Catalyst and Ending Effects are conflicting in regards to this.

For instance, the Catalyst itself states: "The Crucible will not discriminate..."

However, during Control and Synthesis it MUST discriminate on what is being effected and how. Furthermore, during Synthesis it and the Citadel must interact less, presumably, than with the other options as you insert yourself directly into the beam without any influence from a control panel or power source. Would a house fly, unfortunate enough to fly into the beam, set it off? This is unknown. Therefore, the exact capabilities of the Crucible and, in turn, the Citadel are a mystery.

[BleedingUranium]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

There was some strange concept art that didn't make it into the game. For some stupid reason.

Weird. Didn't even notice Earth until I searched this image.

Shepard pulling Shepard up huh?

Guess who's back!?

Anyway, I hadn't noticed that upper concept art having Earth in it either but that's definitely Africa and Madagascar. That would mean that the Reapers are actively assaulting the Citadel.

As to the image of Shepard grabbing the other arm, one can make out the shape of an APC, broken wiring and what appears to be an Earth-Based Building.



Note the spire similarity.

Interestingly, according to one MadCat360 on the Final Gear Forum, this image is intended to be a reflective cube map, although the file packet is listed as "End Planet".

Isn't that Vancouver? I think that building was there.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

[FreddyCast]

Can anyone please give me links to a picture of Major coats in the extended cut endings? I think he is in the first pic of the picture montage in all three endings.

[Priss Blackburne]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

The problem I have with the complex argument is they are still essentialy programs. a series of computer commands. no matter how complex they can get they are limited in the fact they must be stored on the original hardware. They must be able to process the signals to motors and servos. They must be able to store data in their original memory devices.

the Geth are not your standard AI. They function running hundreds of
themselves in one frame Just like a Reaper.  Sure they would not be the
same, but the Geth would survive just in smaller numbers. . They did not
leave a part of themselves in a suit they left a Geth program in the
suit. one of the many geth inhabiting a frame.

The complexity legion speaks of is from the fact that so many different entities exist within a reaper compared to a Geth.

 Again they die simply because the Cataylst Tells you they do so you picture it that way.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 07:41 .

[Rosewind]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

THat would explain why Shepard lives because he not software, BUT it doesn't explain why Starbinger says Shepard will die though, can't be a scare tactic because he mentions he dies in all of them.

[Auralius Carolus]

Rosewind wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

THat would explain why Shepard lives because he not software, BUT it doesn't explain why Starbinger says Shepard will die though, can't be a scare tactic because he mentions he dies in all of them.

I don't recall any "die" in destroy; he mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic and leaves it at that.

[Rosewind]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

The problem I have with the complex argument is they are still essentialy programs. a series of computer commands. no matter how complex they can get they are limited in the fact they must be stored on the original hardware. They must be able to process the signals to motors and servos. They must be able to store data in their original memory devices.

the Geth are not your standard AI. They function running hundreds of
themselves in one frame Just like a Reaper.  Sure they would not be the
same, but the Geth would survive just in smaller numbers. . They did not
leave a part of themselves in a suit they left a Geth program in the
suit. one of the many geth inhabiting a frame.

The complexity legion speaks of is from the fact that so many different entities exist within a reaper compared to a Geth.

 Again they die simply because the Cataylst Tells you they do so you picture it that way.

Your explanation about an AI sounds strangely how a organic brain works, has to be stored on a single "hard drive" aka a brain.
Needs to be able to process the signals of motors and servos aka muscles and nerves.
Must be store data on original memory disk sounds like our normal memory to me.

Does it matter what they made out of if they can think and act with out outside input doesn't that mean they are alive to?

[Rosewind]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

THat would explain why Shepard lives because he not software, BUT it doesn't explain why Starbinger says Shepard will die though, can't be a scare tactic because he mentions he dies in all of them.

I don't recall any "die" in destroy; he mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic and leaves it at that.

He says even you may not escape it or something along those lines because of his/hers synthetic implants.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Rosewind wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

THat would explain why Shepard lives because he not software, BUT it doesn't explain why Starbinger says Shepard will die though, can't be a scare tactic because he mentions he dies in all of them.

I don't recall any "die" in destroy; he mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic and leaves it at that.

He says even you may not escape it or something along those lines because of his/hers synthetic implants.

"Even YOU are partly synthetic," I heard this as "Even YOU will be targetting by the Crucible [and die]"

[Priss Blackburne]

Rosewind wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

The problem I have with the complex argument is they are still essentialy programs. a series of computer commands. no matter how complex they can get they are limited in the fact they must be stored on the original hardware. They must be able to process the signals to motors and servos. They must be able to store data in their original memory devices.

the Geth are not your standard AI. They function running hundreds of
themselves in one frame Just like a Reaper.  Sure they would not be the
same, but the Geth would survive just in smaller numbers. . They did not
leave a part of themselves in a suit they left a Geth program in the
suit. one of the many geth inhabiting a frame.

The complexity legion speaks of is from the fact that so many different entities exist within a reaper compared to a Geth.

 Again they die simply because the Cataylst Tells you they do so you picture it that way.

Your explanation about an AI sounds strangely how a organic brain works, has to be stored on a single "hard drive" aka a brain.
Needs to be able to process the signals of motors and servos aka muscles and nerves.
Must be store data on original memory disk sounds like our normal memory to me.

Does it matter what they made out of if they can think and act with out outside input doesn't that mean they are alive to?

I'm not saying there are not alive, I'm pointed out that supposably the beam is scanning all the computers leaving any software it deams not a threat alone and only destroying anything it sees as being complex enough.

I can understand a beam that targets specific reaper technology but not one that scans computers for malware as it goes. Which Is why I find it hard to believe now without "IT" as part of the ending... dangit...I just got to being okay with the new endings too

[Rosewind]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

THat would explain why Shepard lives because he not software, BUT it doesn't explain why Starbinger says Shepard will die though, can't be a scare tactic because he mentions he dies in all of them.

I don't recall any "die" in destroy; he mentions that Shepard is partially synthetic and leaves it at that.

He says even you may not escape it or something along those lines because of his/hers synthetic implants.

"Even YOU are partly synthetic," I heard this as "Even YOU will be targetting by the Crucible [and die]"

Thank you thats what i meant. Just couldn't remeber his words okay....

[Rosewind]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

@Priss Blackburn

While I have no clue how the Crucible does its Destroy magic, I don't believe it targets Synthetic Life in the sense of looking for something physically synthetic and zapfrying it. I think (from a literal interpretation of course) the wave wipes out anything overtly complex in terms of "software" and we know the Reaper AI's are "magnitudes" above Geth processes from a conversation with Legion.

We also know Geth (if you chose to save them) receive the Reaper upgrades, making their processes comparable to "life." We also know EDI was an AI (from Luna Base) combined with leftover Sovereign bits, highly advanced results. So it's "possible" the red wave of death found the new-Geth and EDI complex enough to wipe out.

Now from an Indoctrination Theory standpoint, both EDI and the new-Geth die in the red ending (high ems or not) because the Catalyst says so and it plays out that way in your mind. Quite the gut-wrenching experience.

The problem I have with the complex argument is they are still essentialy programs. a series of computer commands. no matter how complex they can get they are limited in the fact they must be stored on the original hardware. They must be able to process the signals to motors and servos. They must be able to store data in their original memory devices.

the Geth are not your standard AI. They function running hundreds of
themselves in one frame Just like a Reaper.  Sure they would not be the
same, but the Geth would survive just in smaller numbers. . They did not
leave a part of themselves in a suit they left a Geth program in the
suit. one of the many geth inhabiting a frame.

The complexity legion speaks of is from the fact that so many different entities exist within a reaper compared to a Geth.

 Again they die simply because the Cataylst Tells you they do so you picture it that way.

Your explanation about an AI sounds strangely how a organic brain works, has to be stored on a single "hard drive" aka a brain.
Needs to be able to process the signals of motors and servos aka muscles and nerves.
Must be store data on original memory disk sounds like our normal memory to me.

Does it matter what they made out of if they can think and act with out outside input doesn't that mean they are alive to?

I'm not saying there are not alive, I'm pointed out that supposably the beam is scanning all the computers leaving any software it deams not a threat alone and only destroying anything it sees as being complex enough.

I can understand a beam that targets specific reaper technology but not one that scans computers for malware as it goes. Which Is why I find it hard to believe now without "IT" as part of the ending... dangit...I just got to being okay with the new endings too

LOL Like a system wide anti virus?

[Priss Blackburne]

"One Sec Harby....just need to start a scan for synthetics...dang need to upgrade my citadel again. Okay just go on without me this could take a min........no I don't want to install a toolbar dammit!"

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 06 juillet 2012 - 08:04 .

[Arian Dynas]

 It's quiet.

[lex0r11]

Arian Dynas wrote...

 It's quiet.

People are waiting for another serving of reaper on a stick.





You want any?

[Arian Dynas]

lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

 It's quiet.

People are waiting for another serving of reaper on a stick.


*octosnip*


You want any?

Nah, I think I'll go back to listening to this; 
 

[gunslinger_ruiz]

lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

 It's quiet.

People are waiting for another serving of reaper on a stick.





You want any?

Goin' to bed soon, but save me some!

Everyone knows all Shepards eat Reapers for breakfast.

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

 It's quiet.

Its quiet... too quiet.

[Andromidius]

The Catalyst is being a bit redundant in telling Shepard he/she will die as well, considering it should know damn well that shooting the tube will cause it to explode. And then half the Citadel to explode.

Honestly, quite how anyone on the Citadel survived is beyond me. Yet Bioware says they do. How? Even assuming partical damage to the Citadel, the fact its made of ultra-tough materials means to even do that damage it would kill anyone on board due to secondary explosions, loss of life support, decompressions, superheating...

And the fact Shepard somehow not only survives an explosion to the face, and being on board a wrecked space station, and wasn't targetted by the Crucible despite being told he/she would...

Means the Catalyst is a liar, and Bioware are being sly by saying people survived. Well sure, they would survive if none of this really happened!

Edit: As a side note, its very frustrating trying to explain to someone the difference between a Fact and a Theory (on Youtube, so I shouldn't be suprised).  And then being told to jump off a bridge to prove the Theory of Gravity...yeah, real intellectual there champ.  Not to mention it wouldn't prove the Theory, merely prove the Fact - there's absolutely zero maths being done by jumping off a bridge, so unless they are going to bring a bunch of equipment with them to measure the acceleration of the fall then I'm afraid no science will be done.

Sigh.  Why do I engage pseudo-intellectual morons?

Edit 2: I know why, its because I hate people being wrong.

And just to be clear - Fact is the known action (i.e. falling is caused by Gravity), Theory is the explaination why it happens (which can, and has, changed based on new discoveries).  The Fact will never change (unless the Laws of Physics are changed), the Theory can (though it can only be enhanced and never removed).

Edit 3: Infact, this works well with Indoctrination too!

Indoctrination is the known Fact in the game - it happens.  Its also a Fact that Shepard would be unable to survive the explosion that happened on the Citadel, nor the fall back to Earth.

The Theory is explaining why its impossible, and how Indoctrination happens.  And the Indoctrination Theory is explaining how Indoctrination is affecting Shepard.

Though IT isn't a scientific theory (you can't use science in literature, especially when the literature is using science-fiction!), but it shares a lot of qualities with it.  Peer review, investigation, testing.

Modifié par Andromidius, 06 juillet 2012 - 10:06 .

[Rifneno]

Don't have much time. This connection to the past relies on the anomalies, not stable. Must warn you about Arian's walls of text! They seemed so harmless at first. Entertaining even. But they grow. Oh, how they grow. Eventually they get so massive that they collapse into themselves, like a neutron star but so much more catastrophic. The anomolies from near The Collapse, they just... it's hard to describe. Reality just stops working. People disappear. So many people. Things appeared. Things. You have no words that would properly describe them. No words were necessary in your time because no human mind, no matter how deranged, could imagine such things. Conventional weapons are useless. Only a few remaining pockets of us survived. This warning is our only hope. Please, people of the past, we beg of you, stop Arian's walls of text before it's too late!

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

 It's quiet.

People are waiting for another serving of reaper on a stick.





You want any?

No thanks I am allergic to seafood , and yeah it is queit....

[Rosewind]

Rifneno wrote...

Don't have much time. This connection to the past relies on the anomalies, not stable. Must warn you about Arian's walls of text! They seemed so harmless at first. Entertaining even. But they grow. Oh, how they grow. Eventually they get so massive that they collapse into themselves, like a neutron star but so much more catastrophic. The anomolies from near The Collapse, they just... it's hard to describe. Reality just stops working. People disappear. So many people. Things appeared. Things. You have no words that would properly describe them. No words were necessary in your time because no human mind, no matter how deranged, could imagine such things. Conventional weapons are useless. Only a few remaining pockets of us survived. This warning is our only hope. Please, people of the past, we beg of you, stop Arian's walls of text before it's too late!

Actually a neutron star is the result of a collapse, it's when there are enough neutrons in the core of a star to support it just enough it turns into a neutron star instead of it collapsing entirely into a black hole.

[lex0r11]

Modifié par lex0r11, 06 juillet 2012 - 11:00 .

[Rosewind]

HAHAH! Nice one Lex0r.

Sorry Arian but can I be frank .... I honestly never read your walls, I get down one paragraph and say stuff it lol.