55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 mai 2012 - 03:58 .

[BatmanTurian]

Icinix wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Icinix wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

 My friend found something. In the Voice Cast Reveal trailer, at 3:36, Martin Sheen says:
"Stay tuned, heh... I'm not done yet, LOL!"

I'm guessing this video was made after all the Voice Work was recorded. He's gotta be hinting towards something, since the Illusive Man is 'dead'.

Source: 

Its been discussed a few times - but to go with this - at no point in the final talk with TIM do I feel like I'm talking to TIM. His character and mannerism is so not TIM.

My first playthrough before engaging in speculation on the interwebs that it was not TIM.

I'm also a strong believer that TIM is not indoctrinated and has some role to play in the ending.

TIM
not indoctrinated

EDIT: That doesn't make sense but whatever floats your boat.

Personally I don't think it makes sense for TIM to be indoctrinated (just going to jot some stuff down more than response to you - but go for your life if you see somewhere thats wrong) - if IT ends up being true - then we haven't spoken to him at any point where its clear he is indoctrinated. He was still waging a private war with the Reapers mere hours earlier than when we launched the final assualt on the Cerberus base. If he was indoctrinated - I can't imagine the Reapers would let him get so close to mass distribution of a signal that disrupts / overides their control over husks.

Also - if IT is in play, then we can assume its been in play for a long time. Early trailers, media, previews etc all made clear that Cerberus was indoctrinated. The first time we encounter Cerberus in the game proper - its implied they're using Reaper tech, helping the reapers and generally all the way through everyone assumes they're indoctrinated and has done so for 12 months prior to release anyway.

Then in the last mission before point of no return, what do we learn, the REapers and TIM are battling it out and TIM has a way to interupt Reaper control. We launch final assault on Cerberus - no TIM, he's gone to the citadel. Cerberus done and dusted.

Next time we see TIM is in a very suspect scene after a very suspect series of events and everyone goes back to comfortable oh he was indeed indoctrinated just like we thought all along.

Its all too neat and tidy.

Hmm... Well hopefully they flesh that out a little. TIM has always seemed to walk the borderline of indoctrinated or not before the citadel sequence. He has very blue and orange morality.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 22 mai 2012 - 03:59 .

[spotlessvoid]

D.Sharrah wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

This pictures above...is broshep preggers? I don't get it

No you see the image in the intro..and they are pointing out eerily coincidental it is that Anderson just happens to hit Shepard in teh exact spot where he later is sporting a fresh wound (just after the TIM confrontation on the Citadel)...

Yah, I know

Never can be sure when someone is trolling or not...there seem to be honest questions every once in wahile and I try to give the benefit of doubt...

Me troll? NEVER! I hunt trolls for sport. Ask...nah I'm not even going to mention his name. Let's just say if you hung around the old thread you know who I'm referring to.

Indoctrination Theory For Life!

[Big G13]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

[dmay7]

DJBare wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

If the Indoctrinated theory is true, then my opinion on the ending completely changes. After I heard the theory, I immediately played all the endings. During control and synthesis, Shepard 'dissolves', but look at his eyes, they turn blue. My characters is brown. He gets the same eyes that TIM has. He's turning into a husk. Whereas in Destroy, he stops limping halfway through shooting the conduit, and the catylist fades out of existence. Not to mention that it is clearly London rubble that Shepard wakes up to. AND the fact that Andersons wound suddenly winds up on Shepard.

BTW, am I the only one who thought that TIM was like all half-husk in the end? I mean look at his skin.

No, you aren't the only one. It's good to see another critical thinker who considered the theory carefully and judged it on its merits rather than be close-minded and dismiss it completely.

It should be noted if all Shepard is witnessing is inside his mind, then what we see of TIM is created by Shepard himself, which makes sense since Shepard knows from the base TIM is using reaper upgrades, but it may not neccassirly be how he looks in reality.

Also, I'm sure this has been brought up, but if you let TIM kill you, the camera zooms to the console, and TIM doesn't approach it, in fact, he walks away from it. Also, I'm sure people have noticed the trees and bushes near the entrance to the citadel which clearly were never there before, but seen in his dreams, which also brings me to those shadow people, a symptom that the Rachni Queen TOLD US ABOUT in ME1.

If all this is true, then Bioware are friggen geniuses.

[DJBare]

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

You are thinking Anderson may have interrupted an indoctrination attempt by distracting Shepard from the vent?

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

I think when he said " more than one", he meant in the first game, where he vouched for your good behavior on Eden Prime so that Saren could be exposed for the blame, and then also between ME2 and 3 when he talks the Alliance out of courtmartialling you. Maybe even in ME2 when he seems to be helping Hackett run interference with the Council and the Alliance because he trusted you even when you were working with Cerberus. Shepard owes Anderson more than he can ever repay.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 22 mai 2012 - 04:03 .

[paxxton]

Big Bad wrote...

paxxton wrote...
The point of having the Thorian in ME1 was to show that Saren was studying indoctrination.

I thought the point of the Thorian was for Saren/Shep to get the cipher?

Yes. You're right. The asari enslaved by the Thorian transfered the Cipher to Shepard.

Modifié par paxxton, 22 mai 2012 - 04:05 .

[spotlessvoid]

@ dmay7
yep, TIM doesn't even seem to care about the McCrucible.

[Xavendithas]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I'm also on Feros. So while you are clearing out ExoGeni HQ, there is the room that the Geth have constructed  what you are led to believe is a shrine of some sort...the odd structure with the glowing white ball in the center of it.

In addition to this, there is the mission called UNC:Missing Survey Team. Well, this mission leads you to the team of researchers(an ExoGeni team, according to the datalogs) that has been turned into husks by some Dragon's Teeth they dug up. The kicker, in the center of this room is a replica of the shrine in ExoGeni HQ, right down to the glowing white ball in the center. Only this shrine is obviously much older then the recently constructed one in the ExoGeni HQ on Feros.

I don't really know where to go with this from here, but my first inclination is to draw a parallel between the glowing white orb, the fact that the geth are apparently worshipping said ball of light, and the form the Catalyst takes in the decision chamber. Not to mention that this is something the geth didn't just come up with on their own like we would have believe initially, because we now know what the deal was with that splinter cell of Geth because of everything Legion tells us.

There seems to be something to find here connecting ExoGeni, Cerberus(who was conducting experiments on thorian creepers), the rogue Geth, the Thorian and the Reapers. I'm just too tired at the moment to go any further with it.

Modifié par Xavendithas, 22 mai 2012 - 04:05 .

[spotlessvoid]

DJBare wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

You are thinking Anderson may have interrupted an indoctrination attempt by distracting Shepard from the vent?

But if Anderson meant that re "more than one" then why didn't he ask Shepard about what just happened, if you're saying he knew

[BatmanTurian]

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

I think physiological is more potent because it is self-reinforcing. Reapertech, Thorian spores, whatever, either way it's constantly there to reinforce the indoctrination so that you don't start questioning your masters once someone with enough charisma points out that you're acting like a maniac.

[spotlessvoid]

I thought the ex thorian controlled colonists were resistant because they continued to share some degree of a hive mind

[dmay7]

Xavendithas wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I'm also on Feros. So while you are clearing out ExoGeni HQ, there is the room that the Geth have constructed  what you are led to believe is a shrine of some sort...the odd structure with the glowing white ball in the center of it.

In addition to this, there is the mission called UNC:Missing Survey Team. Well, this mission leads you to the team of researchers(an ExoGeni team, according to the datalogs) that has been turned into husks by some Dragon's Teeth they dug up. The kicker, in the center of this room is a replica of the shrine in ExoGeni HQ, right down to the glowing white ball in the center. Only this shrine is obviously much older then the recently constructed one in the ExoGeni HQ on Feros.

I don't really know where to go with this from here, but my first inclination is to draw a parallel between the glowing white orb, the fact that the geth are apparently worshipping said ball of light, and the form the Catalyst takes in the decision chamber. Not to mention that this is something the geth didn't just come up with on their own like we would have believe initially, because we now know what the deal was with that splinter cell of Geth because of everything Legion tells us.

There seems to be something to find here connecting ExoGeni, Cerberus(who was conducting experiments on thorian creepers), the rogue Geth, the Thorian and the Reapers. I'm just too tired at the moment to go any further with it.

I also remember reading this from the Mass Effect wiki.

Klencory[/b] is a rock and ice planet with an atmosphere composed of chlorine and argon. The frozen surface is mainly composed of potassium with deposits of iron.Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus billionaire Kumun Shol. His once-ridiculed visions of "beings of light" protecting organic life from synthetic "machine devils" don't seem quite so far-fetched now. His private army of mercenaries are well-established on the planet, waiting for husks to come knocking in on their door. In all likelihood, they will be obliterated by the molten metal of a Reaper orbital bombardment, on its way to somewhere important.

[Arian Dynas]

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

Shiala is immune to indoctrination for the same reason the Rachni are, many minds working in concert to shore up the one.

[Bill Casey]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

I think when he said " more than one", he meant in the first game, where he vouched for your good behavior on Eden Prime so that Saren could be exposed for the blame, and then also between ME2 and 3 when he talks the Alliance out of courtmartialling you. Maybe even in ME2 when he seems to be helping Hackett run interference with the Council and the Alliance because he trusted you even when you were working with Cerberus. Shepard owes Anderson more than he can ever repay.

I'm saying it has a potential double meaning depending on how you interpret it...
Dramatic Irony...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 mai 2012 - 04:12 .

[DJBare]

Xavendithas wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I'm also on Feros. So while you are clearing out ExoGeni HQ, there is the room that the Geth have constructed  what you are led to believe is a shrine of some sort...the odd structure with the glowing white ball in the center of it.

In addition to this, there is the mission called UNC:Missing Survey Team. Well, this mission leads you to the team of researchers(an ExoGeni team, according to the datalogs) that has been turned into husks by some Dragon's Teeth they dug up. The kicker, in the center of this room is a replica of the shrine in ExoGeni HQ, right down to the glowing white ball in the center. Only this shrine is obviously much older then the recently constructed one in the ExoGeni HQ on Feros.

I don't really know where to go with this from here, but my first inclination is to draw a parallel between the glowing white orb, the fact that the geth are apparently worshipping said ball of light, and the form the Catalyst takes in the decision chamber. Not to mention that this is something the geth didn't just come up with on their own like we would have believe initially, because we now know what the deal was with that splinter cell of Geth because of everything Legion tells us.

There seems to be something to find here connecting ExoGeni, Cerberus(who was conducting experiments on thorian creepers), the rogue Geth, the Thorian and the Reapers. I'm just too tired at the moment to go any further with it.

Exogeni was also the group on Aequitas in ME2, all were turned to husks, but there is also a skeleton outside the cave with a cerberus container next to it.

[paxxton]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

Shiala is immune to indoctrination for the same reason the Rachni are, many minds working in concert to shore up the one.

But she hears voices many years after and commits suicide in prison.

[DJBare]

paxxton wrote...
But she hears voices many years after and commits suicide in prison.

Your thinking of Rana Thanopsis.

[Xavendithas]

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

This actually got me thinking more about what I posted up a little ways. Considering Shepards connection to the Thorian, and the fact that the Zhu's Hope soldiers were so effective because of their ability to resist indoctrination, couldn't Shepards seemingly strong resistance to indoctrination also be because of his connection to the Thorian?

[Icinix]

paxxton wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

Shiala is immune to indoctrination for the same reason the Rachni are, many minds working in concert to shore up the one.

But she hears voices many years after and commits suicide in prison.

Hmm - in mine she led the colonists as an elite fighting unit against the Reapers? Wonder what about our playthroughs was different.

[Sajuro]

DJBare wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

You are thinking Anderson may have interrupted an indoctrination attempt by distracting Shepard from the vent?

Well if Anderson looked back and Shepard was talking to an empty vent.

[Arashi08]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

It seems to be. It's confirmed by Javik that the reapers showed up at the climax of their war with a synthetic civilization. They would have also showed up during the climax of the Geth/Quarian war but got delayed.

Huh. I looked up the zha'til on the ME wiki, and it says this:

Zha'til...

The zha'til were a synthetic race that existed at the time of the Protheans. They originated when a race known as the zha implanted themselves with symbiotic AI technology to enhance their intelligence in order to survive as their homeworld became inhospitable. When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.

So, the Reapers turned the zha'til against organics, just like they did with the geth heretics?

Well of course synthetics are always going to turn against organics if you freaking hack them and force them to do so!

Godchild is such a freakin moron.

Hmm. I didn't know about the reaper part. I must have overlooked that. I'll get back to you on that one.

  I may be late in typing this, but It almost seems like the Reapers are trying to justify their existence.  maybe there were synthetics that didn't rebel against their creators at one point and the Reapers suddenly had no purpose, so they made the sythetics a threat to organics to justify their existence.  Seems far-fetched I'm sure, but the one thing no sentient being wants is to not have a purpose.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

I think when he said " more than one", he meant in the first game, where he vouched for your good behavior on Eden Prime so that Saren could be exposed for the blame, and then also between ME2 and 3 when he talks the Alliance out of courtmartialling you. Maybe even in ME2 when he seems to be helping Hackett run interference with the Council and the Alliance because he trusted you even when you were working with Cerberus. Shepard owes Anderson more than he can ever repay.

I'm saying it has a potential double meaning depending on how you interpret it...

I understand what you're saying in a metaphorical sense, but I'm saying that's how I interpreted his words at first. But the double-meaning doesn't make sense because Anderson wouldn't know the thing happening with Star-Kid unless you think it's meant by the writers as a message to us.

[Xavendithas]

DJBare wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I'm also on Feros. So while you are clearing out ExoGeni HQ, there is the room that the Geth have constructed  what you are led to believe is a shrine of some sort...the odd structure with the glowing white ball in the center of it.

In addition to this, there is the mission called UNC:Missing Survey Team. Well, this mission leads you to the team of researchers(an ExoGeni team, according to the datalogs) that has been turned into husks by some Dragon's Teeth they dug up. The kicker, in the center of this room is a replica of the shrine in ExoGeni HQ, right down to the glowing white ball in the center. Only this shrine is obviously much older then the recently constructed one in the ExoGeni HQ on Feros.

I don't really know where to go with this from here, but my first inclination is to draw a parallel between the glowing white orb, the fact that the geth are apparently worshipping said ball of light, and the form the Catalyst takes in the decision chamber. Not to mention that this is something the geth didn't just come up with on their own like we would have believe initially, because we now know what the deal was with that splinter cell of Geth because of everything Legion tells us.

There seems to be something to find here connecting ExoGeni, Cerberus(who was conducting experiments on thorian creepers), the rogue Geth, the Thorian and the Reapers. I'm just too tired at the moment to go any further with it.

Exogeni was also the group on Aequitas in ME2, all were turned to husks, but there is also a skeleton outside the cave with a cerberus container next to it.

Yeah, interesting to say the least.