55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Makrys]

Not sure if this has been mentioned at all, but even if so, its worth throwin out there again for anyone who hasn't seen it. A couple tweets were discovered a while back that were pretty revealing... then were later deleted. Intriguing? Here they are:

First one - @masseffect @PatrickWeekes did you feel pressured to change the ending, Isn't it important to stick to your guns on some things?

@satootaku We never said we were changing it We have ALWAYS had big plans for ME3. It isn't a response-It's been in the works

Second - @masseffect Whats with the ending? It was confusing and very dreamlike was it supposed to be like that?
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@kaladur The ending was as we intended, so yes?


I didn't post the link because it just goes to a discussion board where the quotes are simply posted. But I would like to give a shout out to Mr. Bill Casey who posted the link a few days ago on another thread which is where I found it. Always on top of your evidence, Mr. Casey.

So... what do you guys think of that? Seems pretty revealing to me. And Priestly's response was laughable. Just a pure cover up, nothing more.

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 04:23 .

[HellishFiend]

DJBare wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

You are thinking Anderson may have interrupted an indoctrination attempt by distracting Shepard from the vent?

You mean you didnt know/think that? That's the point of the "reaper growls" you hear when Anderson interrupts your conversation with vent boy. The growls are from when the reapers are angry that their attempt to gain control has been interrupted or thwarted. 

Think about it, if Shepard's conversation with vent boy hadnt been interrupted, where do you think the conversation would have gone?

Modifié par HellishFiend, 22 mai 2012 - 04:15 .

[dmay7]

Forgot to add this.

This has also been puzzling me. When Shepard is taken from the control room to wherever the Starchild is, he is on top of the Citadel. The Power Conduit for Destroy and Control Panel for Control are placed ON THE CITADEL, not the crucible. If the Reapers did build the Citadel, why would they put these two highly dangerous things on there that would basically destroy them? And why, in the thousands of years the Asari and Salarians were on the Citadel, did know one ever find and wonder what the hell these things are.

I'll tell you why. Symbolism. Manifestations in Sheperds mind, symbolizing his fight from Indoctrination.

ALSO, I was reading a ME3 guide in Walmart today, and for the End spoilers part, it says that Sheperd doesn't control the Reapers, he BECOMES a Reaper. Thought that was interesting...

[BatmanTurian]

Xavendithas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

This actually got me thinking more about what I posted up a little ways. Considering Shepards connection to the Thorian, and the fact that the Zhu's Hope soldiers were so effective because of their ability to resist indoctrination, couldn't Shepards seemingly strong resistance to indoctrination also be because of his connection to the Thorian?

I don't think Shepard's mind was ever linked up with the colonists... Not sure though. Been years since I played that mission.

[paxxton]

Icinix wrote...

Hmm - in mine she led the colonists as an elite fighting unit against the Reapers? Wonder what about our playthroughs was different.

No. I made a mistake. It was Rana Thanoptis. DJBare pointed that out.

[Makrys]

dmay7 wrote...

Forgot to add this.

This has also been puzzling me. When Shepard is taken from the control room to wherever the Starchild is, he is on top of the Citadel. The Power Conduit for Destroy and Control Panel for Control are placed ON THE CITADEL, not the crucible. If the Reapers did build the Citadel, why would they put these two highly dangerous things on there that would basically destroy them? And why, in the thousands of years the Asari and Salarians were on the Citadel, did know one ever find and wonder what the hell these things are.

I'll tell you why. Symbolism. Manifestations in Sheperds mind, symbolizing his fight from Indoctrination.

ALSO, I was reading a ME3 guide in Walmart today, and for the End spoilers part, it says that Sheperd doesn't control the Reapers, he BECOMES a Reaper. Thought that was interesting...

Yes, in the CE guide, it clearly outlines the choices. Control is labeled as 'become a Reaper'. Should be pretty obvious to everyone... don't choose control.

[Icinix]

Xavendithas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

This actually got me thinking more about what I posted up a little ways. Considering Shepards connection to the Thorian, and the fact that the Zhu's Hope soldiers were so effective because of their ability to resist indoctrination, couldn't Shepards seemingly strong resistance to indoctrination also be because of his connection to the Thorian?

Definitely - at least in a small part. Also the Cypher, the Prothean beam, the connection established to David / Geth in whatever that DLC was called (total blank gah), being rebuilt back from the dead and having different upgrades,.

Shepards body and mind has got more things overlaid, inserted, installed and created than anyone probably alive.

Indoctrinating Shepard would be liked indoctrinating five different people running through a maze within the mind of someone else.

[Bill Casey]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I understand what you're saying in a metaphorical sense, but I'm saying that's how I interpreted his words at first. But the double-meaning doesn't make sense because Anderson wouldn't know the thing happening with Star-Kid unless you think it's meant by the writers as a message to us.

dramatic irony

"in literature, a plot device in which the audience's or reader's knowledge of events or individuals surpasses that of the characters. The words and actions of the characters therefore take on a different meaning for the audience or reader than they have for the play's characters. This may happen when, for example, a character reacts in an inappropriate or foolish way or when a character lacks self-awareness and thus acts under false assumptions"

Modifié par Bill Casey, 22 mai 2012 - 04:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

Makrys wrote...

Not sure if this has been mentioned at all, but even if so, its worth throwin out there again for anyone who hasn't seen it. A couple tweets were discovered a while back that were pretty revealing... then were later deleted. Intriguing? Here they are:

First one - @masseffect @PatrickWeekes did you feel pressured to change the ending, Isn't it important to stick to your guns on some things?

@satootaku We never said we were changing it We have ALWAYS had big plans for ME3. It isn't a response-It's been in the works

Second - @masseffect Whats with the ending? It was confusing and very dreamlike was it supposed to be like that?
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@kaladur The ending was as we intended, so yes?
I didn't post the link because it just goes to a discussion board where the quotes are simply posted. But I would like to give a shout out to Mr. Bill Casey who posted the link a few days ago on another thread which is where I found it. Always on top of your evidence, Mr. Casey.

So... what do you guys think of that? Seems pretty revealing to me. And Priestly's response was laughable. Just a pure cover up, nothing more.

I don't know, on one hand it sounds like double-speak, but on the other I don't want to get all excited over his vague wording.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I understand what you're saying in a metaphorical sense, but I'm saying that's how I interpreted his words at first. But the double-meaning doesn't make sense because Anderson wouldn't know the thing happening with Star-Kid unless you think it's meant by the writers as a message to us.

dramatic irony

"in literature, a plot device in which the audience's or reader's knowledge of events or individuals surpasses that of the characters. The words and actions of the characters therefore take on a different meaning for the audience or reader than they have for the play's characters. This may happen when, for example, a character reacts in an inappropriate or foolish way or when a character lacks self-awareness and thus acts under false assumptions"

Yeah, I get it.

[DJBare]

Just for some folk who need to unmix their Asari
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rana_Thanoptis
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Shiala

[Xavendithas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

This actually got me thinking more about what I posted up a little ways. Considering Shepards connection to the Thorian, and the fact that the Zhu's Hope soldiers were so effective because of their ability to resist indoctrination, couldn't Shepards seemingly strong resistance to indoctrination also be because of his connection to the Thorian?

I don't think Shepard's mind was ever linked up with the colonists... Not sure though. Been years since I played that mission.

It wasn't linked up with the colonists, but it was linked up with the Asari who was being used by the Thorian. The same Asari who melded with Saren to share all that information about the Protheans.

Saren resisted indoctrination for quite a while as well.

Modifié par Xavendithas, 22 mai 2012 - 04:20 .

[Icinix]

paxxton wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Hmm - in mine she led the colonists as an elite fighting unit against the Reapers? Wonder what about our playthroughs was different.

No. I made a mistake. It was Rana Thanoptis. DJBare pointed that out.

Yeah, just spotted it. Still, interested the Reapers steps to stop people commiting suicide (as mentioned in the books that actually are canon in ME) aren't working nearly as well as they would like.

[BatmanTurian]

Makrys wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

Forgot to add this.

This has also been puzzling me. When Shepard is taken from the control room to wherever the Starchild is, he is on top of the Citadel. The Power Conduit for Destroy and Control Panel for Control are placed ON THE CITADEL, not the crucible. If the Reapers did build the Citadel, why would they put these two highly dangerous things on there that would basically destroy them? And why, in the thousands of years the Asari and Salarians were on the Citadel, did know one ever find and wonder what the hell these things are.

I'll tell you why. Symbolism. Manifestations in Sheperds mind, symbolizing his fight from Indoctrination.

ALSO, I was reading a ME3 guide in Walmart today, and for the End spoilers part, it says that Sheperd doesn't control the Reapers, he BECOMES a Reaper. Thought that was interesting...

Yes, in the CE guide, it clearly outlines the choices. Control is labeled as 'become a Reaper'. Should be pretty obvious to everyone... don't choose control.

My theory is, Control is the ReapersWin scenario that Bioware hinted they would put in the game ( I mean why would our choice matter if there wasn't one where you could screw up?), Synthesis is indoctrinated but able to snap out of it, Destroy is what we have said it is.

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Possibly a bit of foreshadowing...

At the beginning...
Anderson saves Shepard from Vent Boy, then from a fall...
Shepard says, "I owe you one"
Anderson says, "More than one"

I think when he said " more than one", he meant in the first game, where he vouched for your good behavior on Eden Prime so that Saren could be exposed for the blame, and then also between ME2 and 3 when he talks the Alliance out of courtmartialling you. Maybe even in ME2 when he seems to be helping Hackett run interference with the Council and the Alliance because he trusted you even when you were working with Cerberus. Shepard owes Anderson more than he can ever repay.

Just because it's what the character meant, it's not necessarily what the writer meant. Still could be foreshadowing.

[paxxton]

DJBare wrote...

Just for some folk who need to unmix their Asari
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Rana_Thanoptis
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Shiala

Thanks.

Modifié par paxxton, 22 mai 2012 - 04:30 .

[Big G13]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

I think physiological is more potent because it is self-reinforcing. Reapertech, Thorian spores, whatever, either way it's constantly there to reinforce the indoctrination so that you don't start questioning your masters once someone with enough charisma points out that you're acting like a maniac.

So, what is the thread consensus, does Reaper indoc. start out as psychological and reinforce itself with implants later on, or is it completely dependent on, at least, physical proximity to Reaper tech? I've been in this thread since near the beginning and still don't have my head wrapped around it.

[BatmanTurian]

Xavendithas wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

This actually got me thinking more about what I posted up a little ways. Considering Shepards connection to the Thorian, and the fact that the Zhu's Hope soldiers were so effective because of their ability to resist indoctrination, couldn't Shepards seemingly strong resistance to indoctrination also be because of his connection to the Thorian?

I don't think Shepard's mind was ever linked up with the colonists... Not sure though. Been years since I played that mission.

It wasn't linked up with the colonists, but it was linked up with the Asari who was being used by the Thorian. The same Asari who melded with Saren to share all that information about the Protheans.

Saren resisted indoctrination for quite a while as well.

Ah, okay. Like I said, it's been a while and I barely remember the details.

[spotlessvoid]

Regarding the ending:
What's the consensus on whether TIM is Shepards mental projection or the Reapers influence?

[BatmanTurian]

Big G13 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

I think physiological is more potent because it is self-reinforcing. Reapertech, Thorian spores, whatever, either way it's constantly there to reinforce the indoctrination so that you don't start questioning your masters once someone with enough charisma points out that you're acting like a maniac.

So, what is the thread consensus, does Reaper indoc. start out as psychological and reinforce itself with implants later on, or is it completely dependent on, at least, physical proximity to Reaper tech? I've been in this thread since near the beginning and still don't have my head wrapped around it.

That's how it worked out with Saren. Saren was initially psychologically indoctrinated. Then the Reapers used their pschyological conditioning to coerce Saren to accept implants, which gave him that husk/geth appearance. At that point, the implants then become self-reinforcing, which is why he finds it painful to try to get out of Sovereign's control and has to shoot himself to be free.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 22 mai 2012 - 04:25 .

[HellishFiend]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Regarding the ending:
What's the consensus on whether TIM is Shepards mental projection or the Reapers influence?

As far as I know, we never reached a consensus on that.

[UFGSpot]

dmay7 wrote...

Forgot to add this.

This has also been puzzling me. When Shepard is taken from the control room to wherever the Starchild is, he is on top of the Citadel. The Power Conduit for Destroy and Control Panel for Control are placed ON THE CITADEL, not the crucible. If the Reapers did build the Citadel, why would they put these two highly dangerous things on there that would basically destroy them? And why, in the thousands of years the Asari and Salarians were on the Citadel, did know one ever find and wonder what the hell these things are.

I'll tell you why. Symbolism. Manifestations in Sheperds mind, symbolizing his fight from Indoctrination.

ALSO, I was reading a ME3 guide in Walmart today, and for the End spoilers part, it says that Sheperd doesn't control the Reapers, he BECOMES a Reaper. Thought that was interesting...

Let's pretend for a moment it isn't a dream. (I am an IT supporter so just bear with me)

The Crucible is aptly named. It's designed to interface with the Citadel on a level that implies coordination. If the ending is "real" as it stands, it's almost like it was a test created by the Reapers to signify a civilization was ready (passing through a Crucible) to make an assesment on the future.

It's also clear (again assuming it's real) that Synthesis is supposed to be the "good" option. Peace and love, if you ignore all that stuff about denying everyone the right to self determine but we won't get into all that.

So my question is....if the crucible was the key to synthesis, and the crucible is a reaper based design, and if the synthesis was gonna be decided for everyone by 1 person and it's what the reapers wanted....why didn't they just do it themselves? Why all the run around? Why not modify the citadel after the first cycle or whenever and just make it happen? It makes no sense at all. NOTHING about the ending as it stands makes any dang sense, and it drives me nuts.

[Icinix]

Big G13 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Big G13 wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

I was wondering. I am currently replaying ME1, and I am on Feros. Is it possible that the Thorian has something to do with the Reapers? Considering they are both very old and both indoctrinate. It would be interesting if the Thorian species was one of the inspirations for the Reapers.

I don't think so. The Thorian is over 50k years old but the Reapers are 10s of millions. BUT, it does remind me of something I thought interesting. In ME3 the citizens of Feros were affective fighters because of past Thorian indoctrination and were resistant to Reaper indoctrination because of Thorian spores still being in there system. Is physiological indoctrination more powerful than psychological indoctrination? OR is it a case of indoctrination of any kind, once broken, giving the formerly indoctrinated subject an immunity to future indoctrination attempts of any kind? As usual, I have few answers and lots of questions.

I think physiological is more potent because it is self-reinforcing. Reapertech, Thorian spores, whatever, either way it's constantly there to reinforce the indoctrination so that you don't start questioning your masters once someone with enough charisma points out that you're acting like a maniac.

So, what is the thread consensus, does Reaper indoc. start out as psychological and reinforce itself with implants later on, or is it completely dependent on, at least, physical proximity to Reaper tech? I've been in this thread since near the beginning and still don't have my head wrapped around it.

Psychological I do believe - with implants coming later.

The exception is Paul Grayson, because he was still outright injected with the nanites or whatever - even still, he put up one hell of a fight against that direct attempt for a hell of a long time.

[DJBare]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Regarding the ending:
What's the consensus on whether TIM is Shepards mental projection or the Reapers influence?

I'll say it's reaper influence, but Shepard is still the one to create the image, if the reapers were that much in control then they'd make TIM look more appealing not like a half husk.

[BatmanTurian]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Regarding the ending:
What's the consensus on whether TIM is Shepards mental projection or the Reapers influence?

My personal opinion is that it is a little bit of both, but that StarBeiber is definitely Harbinger.