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[Priss Blackburne]

The fact that "Control" and "Synthesis" is what the reapers used to lure the previous indoctrinated bad guys with is suspect as well.

He says oh the illusive man could never control us because we controled him, but you could totaly do it.<_<

And I remember hearing the Synthesis speach from Saren in the first one so I imediatlly did this <_<

There are just too many subtle hints that something is not right with this picture it's hard for me to ignore.

On a side note, I didn't check the EC but are trees still reflected in the walkway?

[HellishFiend]

Rosewind wrote...

Don't forget the way Hackett hails Shepard "Shepard, Commander" only one person well synthetic hails Shepard that way and that is Legion no one else does it specially Hackett.

Shepard Commander!  Shepard Commander?  Shepard....?

[Rosewind]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

The fact that "Control" and "Synthesis" is what the reapers used to lure the previous indoctrinated bad guys with is suspect as well.

He says oh the illusive man could never control us because we controled him, but you could totaly do it.<_<

And I remember hearing the Synthesis speach from Saren in the first one so I imediatlly did this <_<

There are just too many subtle hints that something is not right with this picture it's hard for me to ignore.

On a side note, I didn't check the EC but are trees still reflected in the walkway?

Yes they are.

[masster blaster]

I think I know why the Reapers wanted Shepard alone at the end. It's because Shepard's squad/friends have always been there for Shepard, and infulensing Shepard's choices by telling Shepard (the player) what needs to be done, and give concuil to Shepard. Whe Shepard ( the player) is in doubt about everything that is happening.

I like to also point out that why is the Reapers/Cerbures going after Shepard's ( the players) old friends and trying to kill them, or Indoctrinate them. It's probale to weaken Shepard's mind, or it's random, but it gives question on how it playes at the Conduit run scene and there after.

When we are charging down to the Beacon/Conduit. Shepard's squad get badly hurt and calles for evac because Shepard is think right there about " I am not going to let more of my friends die". So Shepard calles for Evac and they leave, but it's weird that Harby looks at Shepard, and let's the Normandy go, even though Harby could have shot it down within a second or less, but Harby didn't. Why because has I said. The Reapers want Shepard alone because the can Indoctrinate Shepard because his/her friends are gone, but what they forgot was that Anderson was still with Shepard, and could still infulence Shepard into Destroying the Reapers.

So when Shepard get's knocked out by Harby. The Hallucination starts, with the exception of the Reapers Indoctrinating Shepard.

Now as Shepard wakes up he/she is confuessd as is the player that Shepard is alone and everyone is dead around Shepard, but as we ascended up the beam he/she is knocked out again, but this time Anderson radios Shepard and goes of to say that he followed Shepard up, and tells you that everything that Shepard sees is reminding Shepard ( the player) that " Yes I have seen this before".

So as you catch up to Anderson, he is traped in the Reapers Indoctrination apperence of TIM, and does the same thing to Shepard. Yet as Tim and Anderson talk to one another, they are actualy talking to Shepard directly, so once you kill TIM. You go site down next to Anderson and after a few words are spoken he dies of a one gun shot to the side.

And that's when it hites Shepard that he/she is alone with no one to help him/her. No one to look for advice, or just be there for him/her. Yet when Shepard trys to activate the crucible from the Control panal. Shepard passes out again but this time is taken to the layer of the Catalyst's home.

Now from here Shepard thinks in his/her mind that everyone that made Shepard the man/woman he/she is are either dead or dying on Earth/the space battle.

And with Shepard's squad away from Shepard. The Catalyst persuades Shepard (the player) into agreeing with it's programming and gives Shepard three options in which case he/she does not have a squad member to tell Shepard about all of the people that have died just to get here. Yet Shepard is conviced that he/she can save them, but in Synthesis there can still be wars and Reapers need to Reap in order to survive/reproduce.

Also in Control Shepard could get killed by a rogue Reaper since Shepard is just a Reaper that may control the other Reapers but can bee killed. And I also like to point out in the epilogue that in the Destory epilogue Shepard's squad mates/LI, know that Anderson is dead.

Okay only Shepard knew about Anderson being dead, and the fact that they know that Shepard is alive kind of suggest that. Everything we see is alive, and that when the Normandy leaves in the Destroy ending , after not putting up Shepard's name is that. Shepard is telling him/her self to wake up because I still have friends, and possible a family to come back to. And we ahve the Breath scene.

Now I know I got a little of topic about what I was first saying, but it's been on my mind since last night.

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Don't forget the way Hackett hails Shepard "Shepard, Commander" only one person well synthetic hails Shepard that way and that is Legion no one else does it specially Hackett.

Shepard Commander!  Shepard Commander?  Shepard....?

Hehehehehe Love Legion and friends, have you seen the one where they watching TV and Legion singing that song can't remember the name it at the moment. Love that one specially Miranda.

[Rifneno]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

I just re-finished my first game with the EC, and, apparently, IT was wrong. But still, there are flaws and so, we need to keep discussing the endings. As BW clearly made EC cause the fans feedback, I'm sure they'll still reading the fans feedback. So, we need to continue helping to improve the game (ITers, Anti-ITers, trolls, everybody)

I know I shouldn't ask, but morbid curiosity compells me...  how exactly was IT disproven?

[HellishFiend]

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Don't forget the way Hackett hails Shepard "Shepard, Commander" only one person well synthetic hails Shepard that way and that is Legion no one else does it specially Hackett.

Shepard Commander!  Shepard Commander?  Shepard....?

Hehehehehe Love Legion and friends, have you seen the one where they watching TV and Legion singing that song can't remember the name it at the moment. Love that one specially Miranda.

lol yeah, my favorite part is "theurs n0 reasun"

Tali would have been hilarious if she was sarcastic and angsty like that in the actual games. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 07 juillet 2012 - 05:12 .

[Rosewind]

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Don't forget the way Hackett hails Shepard "Shepard, Commander" only one person well synthetic hails Shepard that way and that is Legion no one else does it specially Hackett.

Shepard Commander!  Shepard Commander?  Shepard....?

Hehehehehe Love Legion and friends, have you seen the one where they watching TV and Legion singing that song can't remember the name it at the moment. Love that one specially Miranda.

lol yeah, my favorite part is "theurs n0 reasun"

Tali would have been hilarious if she was sarcastic and angsty like that in the actual games. 

Yeah, the Guess who has a hoodie one is so well done I like thane's hat and how grunts hats changed about 3 times and then into his rubber ducky in the one scene. But I can;t work out who the "theif" that is dancing between legion dancing on the table and being caught by thane and jarvik.

[HellishFiend]

masster blaster wrote...

I think I know why the Reapers wanted Shepard alone at the end. It's because Shepard's squad/friends have always been there for Shepard, and infulensing Shepard's choices by telling Shepard (the player) what needs to be done, and give concuil to Shepard. Whe Shepard ( the player) is in doubt about everything that is happening.

Yeah, most importantly I thin it's becase because BW wants the players themselves to be alone during those choices. Up until then we've always had our squaddies in our ears giving us their perspective on things to help us make a decision. Now at that point, all we have is our memories of the themes presented across the trilogy and the word of a Reaper to guide us. 

[masster blaster]

Oh and I like to point out that through out ME3. The Illusive Man wanted to Control the Reapers, but truly he was indoctrinated by the Reapers, and I mean fully once they arrivad. And later on we find out that. TIM could control thr Reaper ground forces/makes his own Reaper ground forces, but once Shepard arrivad at Sanctuary. The Reaper ground forces were attacking the Cerbures ground forces, and broke their hold ov er the Controlled husk, and reaper forces that they created.

Now as we begin to see that TIM could actualy Control the Reaper ground forces, we the Player/Shepard are thinking that amybe we can Control the Reapers, and that they will obye us. Yet we forget that at the end of the game we convice TIM that he was wrong, and proved that he was in fact under their Control. Also if you look at the timeing on the attack at Sanctuary, it'd almost like this was all the Reapers doing, so that Shepard/the player could see that they can be Controld.


I would like to say that the whole Control idea is was the Reapers plain from the start of ME3 because TIM just randomly started saying yes we can Control them, and itKs funny that we learn that his troops are Synthetics, with Reaper tech. Yet when we go to TIM's base, we find out that they begain to hear vocies, and it's funny that they are still following TIM, or are they?

It goes to say if they Control TIM what's to say that the Control all of Cerbures, since they begain to attack Human Colonies, which Cerbures would never do, and it's funny that TIM says to Shepard in his base that L Cerbures is an ideal", but in ME2 he says " Cerbures is Humanity and will protect Humanity from any alien treat.

But yet again in TIM has been working with the Reapers, because even though we think as Cerbures as a terriost groupe, they actualy have been doing the Reapers dirty work, by cripaling Galactic Power, economy, military streangth, and targeting political and alien colonies throught the danw it was created by TIM.

[Priss Blackburne]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and I like to point out that through out ME3. The Illusive Man wanted to Control the Reapers, but truly he was indoctrinated by the Reapers, and I mean fully once they arrivad. And later on we find out that. TIM could control thr Reaper ground forces/makes his own Reaper ground forces, but once Shepard arrivad at Sanctuary. The Reaper ground forces were attacking the Cerbures ground forces, and broke their hold ov er the Controlled husk, and reaper forces that they created.

Now as we begin to see that TIM could actualy Control the Reaper ground forces, we the Player/Shepard are thinking that amybe we can Control the Reapers, and that they will obye us. Yet we forget that at the end of the game we convice TIM that he was wrong, and proved that he was in fact under their Control. Also if you look at the timeing on the attack at Sanctuary, it'd almost like this was all the Reapers doing, so that Shepard/the player could see that they can be Controld.


I would like to say that the whole Control idea is was the Reapers plain from the start of ME3 because TIM just randomly started saying yes we can Control them, and itKs funny that we learn that his troops are Synthetics, with Reaper tech. Yet when we go to TIM's base, we find out that they begain to hear vocies, and it's funny that they are still following TIM, or are they?

It goes to say if they Control TIM what's to say that the Control all of Cerbures, since they begain to attack Human Colonies, which Cerbures would never do, and it's funny that TIM says to Shepard in his base that L Cerbures is an ideal", but in ME2 he says " Cerbures is Humanity and will protect Humanity from any alien treat.

But yet again in TIM has been working with the Reapers, because even though we think as Cerbures as a terriost groupe, they actualy have been doing the Reapers dirty work, by cripaling Galactic Power, economy, military streangth, and targeting political and alien colonies throught the danw it was created by TIM.

that is interesting since I beleieve in the comic The Illusive man doesn't form Cerberus until after he had come into contact with a reaper indoctrination device that some indoctrinated turians where trying to use to take over palavin.

[paxxton]

blah blah blah

Nothing's happening.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 06:37 .

[marcelo_sdk]

HellishFiend wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...

I just re-finished my first game with the EC, and, apparently, IT was wrong. But still, there are flaws and so, we need to keep discussing the endings. As BW clearly made EC cause the fans feedback, I'm sure they'll still reading the fans feedback. So, we need to continue helping to improve the game (ITers, Anti-ITers, trolls, everybody)

So you actually believe the unmitigated nonsense presented in both EC Starbrat's dialog and the Synthesis/Control endings is actually real?

I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

But a point pro-IT is that, as we suspected, the Catalyst was using the child's form to manipulate Shepard. When he sees that you'll not do what he wants,  he returns to what is perhaps his original voice. 

To conclude, I don't think IT is impossible with the facts given in EC, but I don't think BW will use it. I think the ending of the game is something dealed with, the next DLCs will be something like "Take back Omega". But, of couse, I can be wrong.

[paxxton]

Has anyone noticed how casually Shepard tells the Catalyst that Organics can win the war without using the Crucible. Just like that. Also, he has a strange expression on his face. Like this one ->
http://www.youtube.c...iK1D1tY#t=1567s

This evidence meshes with the Starchild's twinkling and voice anomaly pretty well. Shepard is starting to break out of indoctrination.

The Catalyst represents logical order and Shepard's remarks convey a chaotic message.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[SubAstris]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

The fact that "Control" and "Synthesis" is what the reapers used to lure the previous indoctrinated bad guys with is suspect as well.

He says oh the illusive man could never control us because we controled him, but you could totaly do it.<_<

And I remember hearing the Synthesis speach from Saren in the first one so I imediatlly did this <_<

There are just too many subtle hints that something is not right with this picture it's hard for me to ignore.

On a side note, I didn't check the EC but are trees still reflected in the walkway?

That doesn't mean it is wrong, it just means that we were wrong the first time, or rather, we didn't have the full picture.

[Andromidius]

marcelo_sdk wrote...
I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

The fact you can't actually ask the questions we've wanted to ask still, and the things Starbinger says are still contradictory and Shepard still just accepts them without much trouble says something is wrong.

There's many, many problems with a literal ending still.  Moreso then before, even.

[SubAstris]

Andromidius wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...
I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

The fact you can't actually ask the questions we've wanted to ask still, and the things Starbinger says are still contradictory and Shepard still just accepts them without much trouble says something is wrong.

There's many, many problems with a literal ending still.  Moreso then before, even.

The point, if the Catalyst is meant to be 100% correct, then we might as well let the Reapers win. The fact that he is not totally logical should be reassurance, otherwise you have played through hundreds of hours of gameplay to stop the very thing you now happen to agree with.

[masster blaster]

Paxxton I think it's also weird that Hackett said he did it, then it says all ship's somebody has made it to the Citadel.

Okay.
1. How does Hackett know that Shepard made it to the Citadel.
2. Why not tell evryone that Shepard made it to the Citadel, since he conntacted Shepard after Anderson died.
3.Coats said they ARE all DEAD. So he lied but why
4.Hackett may be implying that Shepard did it, and got somebody on the Citadel, so he could be talking about Somebody else.
5. Is it just me that we did not see Anderson runing withus, or even around Shepard during the run scene because I could have sworn, that he was running along side Shepard.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

I think I know why the Reapers wanted Shepard alone at the end. It's because Shepard's squad/friends have always been there for Shepard, and infulensing Shepard's choices by telling Shepard (the player) what needs to be done, and give concuil to Shepard. Whe Shepard ( the player) is in doubt about everything that is happening.

Yeah, most importantly I thin it's becase because BW wants the players themselves to be alone during those choices. Up until then we've always had our squaddies in our ears giving us their perspective on things to help us make a decision. Now at that point, all we have is our memories of the themes presented across the trilogy and the word of a Reaper to guide us. 

Oh sweet lord jesus, this is one of the best sum-ups of the ending I've read.
That's how I felt, especially in the EC where it's even more clear that the Catalyst is a Reaper.

Well done, sir!

[Andromidius]

SubAstris wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...
I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

The fact you can't actually ask the questions we've wanted to ask still, and the things Starbinger says are still contradictory and Shepard still just accepts them without much trouble says something is wrong.

There's many, many problems with a literal ending still.  Moreso then before, even.

The point, if the Catalyst is meant to be 100% correct, then we might as well let the Reapers win. The fact that he is not totally logical should be reassurance, otherwise you have played through hundreds of hours of gameplay to stop the very thing you now happen to agree with.

Well that is kind of my point.  If he's 100% correct (which would be impossible, considering how he contradicts even what he says alone) then why bother have the Reapers as the bad guys for 3 games?  Its a pointless story.

But the fact he's not correct with most of what he says shows that fighting them was worth it - and Shepard's acceptance of it all is an obvious clue to Shepard not being in his/her right mind at that stage.

And thus, IT was born.  Shepard is showing many signs of late-stage indoctrination exposure.  Not quite indoctrinated, untill you make that last leap.  Last chance to avoid losing your mind forever.

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

Paxxton I think it's also weird that Hackett said he did it, then it says all ship's somebody has made it to the Citadel.

Okay.
1. How does Hackett know that Shepard made it to the Citadel.
2. Why not tell evryone that Shepard made it to the Citadel, since he conntacted Shepard after Anderson died.
3.Coats said they ARE all DEAD. So he lied but why
4.Hackett may be implying that Shepard did it, and got somebody on the Citadel, so he could be talking about Somebody else.
5. Is it just me that we did not see Anderson runing withus, or even around Shepard during the run scene because I could have sworn, that he was running along side Shepard.

1. He is informed during a cutscene in the EC.
2. He hadn't known exactly who made it to the Citadel until later.
3. Hallucination
4. Maybe if IT
5. Well, IT.

[SubAstris]

Andromidius wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

marcelo_sdk wrote...
I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

The fact you can't actually ask the questions we've wanted to ask still, and the things Starbinger says are still contradictory and Shepard still just accepts them without much trouble says something is wrong.

There's many, many problems with a literal ending still.  Moreso then before, even.

The point, if the Catalyst is meant to be 100% correct, then we might as well let the Reapers win. The fact that he is not totally logical should be reassurance, otherwise you have played through hundreds of hours of gameplay to stop the very thing you now happen to agree with.

Well that is kind of my point.  If he's 100% correct (which would be impossible, considering how he contradicts even what he says alone) then why bother have the Reapers as the bad guys for 3 games?  Its a pointless story.

But the fact he's not correct with most of what he says shows that fighting them was worth it - and Shepard's acceptance of it all is an obvious clue to Shepard not being in his/her right mind at that stage.

And thus, IT was born.  Shepard is showing many signs of late-stage indoctrination exposure.  Not quite indoctrinated, untill you make that last leap.  Last chance to avoid losing your mind forever.

But now BW have changed that, you don't have to accept any option; it is an obvious clue that Shepard is indeed his right-minded, inquistive self. And so IT can die

[masster blaster]

Oh and you do realize Subarts that it was then the Catalyst that started all of the big galatic wars because they forced the Rachni to fight the whole part of the Galaxy.

Made the geth fight Organics after they did not want to kill there Creators even though they could have but didn't.

Also it was The Catalyst that caused all of this, and just like a selfish child would. It wanted it to be his way, rather let the Galaxys/cycles think for themselfs.

And the fact that it's an AI, it could have disobyed it primary functions anytime it wanted to just like EDI, and so many VI, and AIs have done the ME univery.

[marcelo_sdk]

I think IT it's still open, don't get me wrong. I think the Leviathan DLC will clarify a lot of things. Just now I wonder if the Leviathan is the one controling Shepard in IT point of view.

[olshi]

marcelo_sdk wrote...

I didn't see those endings. But one thing is now much more clear to me. The Catalyst is a machine created with a purpose. So, he does what it takes to fulfill that purpose. If it makes sense or not, it's another issue. And a key point in IT for me was that Sheppard didnt argued with him. Now you can disagree with everything he says, you can try to wage war with him.

There are still no paragon or renegade dialogue options or interrupts, the core mechanic of the games. The answers he gives us in the EC are nothing that I couldn't have guessed myself.