55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

Reposting for all the nasty trolls lurking in here.

paxxton wrote...

Duh. Winning. -> ITists <- 

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:10 .

[Rifneno]

SubAstris wrote...

The point, if the Catalyst is meant to be 100% correct, then we might as well let the Reapers win. The fact that he is not totally logical should be reassurance, otherwise you have played through hundreds of hours of gameplay to stop the very thing you now happen to agree with.

No. You're talking about him having reached an invalid logical conclusion. Something he believes to be true but isn't. That's not the issue. The issue is that he's lying and he knows he's lying. He claims to be basically the "boss" Reaper mind, something which has never been hinted at even existing and contradicts things we've seen and heard in the past. From both a story perspective and a logical perspective, that's highly unlikely. He claims the Reapers aren't malevolent, they just do what they believe to be necessary. Arian and I covered this pretty well a week or so ago and all evidence points to the Reapers being downright hateful, sadistic, and unnecessarily cruel even if for some bizarre reason that galactic genocide was a necessity.

He's a lying little bastard and he knows it. This isn't a well meaning AI that reached a poor moral conclusion. This is an active and conscious attempt at deception.

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Usually it's if you don't want other people to read or comment, don't post.

Why don't you show me how it's done and stop posting?

[Legion of 1337]

Iucounou wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Legon please explain why the Earth rely explosion is still in the Viper Nebula, where the Arrival took place, and why in the Destroy ending thinks that Shepard is still alive, when they confiremd that Anderson is dead. Also if Shepard was alive and they knew about it then why are they having the put Shepard on the memorial wall scene, where Bioware could have you LI, or squad mate find Shepard in the pile of rubbleon Earth.

Also why did Bioware us a modle of Coats to be the person being unmasked by the Keeper. And there is still a lot of evidence that IT is right on the track.

Those don't support IT, they're just stupid plot holes Bioware still hasn't fixed.

You still haven't said what about the EC disproves IT. I'm sure you are about to, though.

Hallucinations tend to be less real-looking. Here there are no fuzzy images, no apparitions, no suggestive whispering, no confusion - everything looks real, looks as it should look. You can clearly see what is going on. The Catalyst is not a hallucination - it is attempting to influence you with a child hollogram, you can see this if you chose Refuse, where it's voice suddenly turns deep and sinister. 

Most of all though, EC shows us what happens aftewards. Not only that, but through the viewpoint of another character. It even shows us what other characters do afterwards. Are we supposed to believe all those events were made up? To what end? If IT were true then picking Destroy should snap Shepard out of it - but he doesn't "wake up" from anything.

[MaximizedAction]

Fellow ITer pls.

Be friendly to each other!

[paxxton]

OK, this is serious stuff.

paxxton wrote...

Reposting a wall of text.

paxxton wrote...

Has anyone noticed how casually Shepard tells the Catalyst that Organics can win the war without using the Crucible. Just like that. Also, he has a strange expression on his face. Like this one ->
http://www.youtube.c...iK1D1tY#t=1567s

This evidence meshes with the Starchild's twinkling and voice anomaly pretty well. Shepard is starting to break out of indoctrination.

The Catalyst represents logical order and Shepard's remarks convey a chaotic message.

[masster blaster]

Legion Shepard wakes up at Earth not the Citadel, and Shepard oes wake up after the epilogue is over, and if the squad mates knew that Anderson was dead, then they should also know where Shepard is, and not have the Memorial scene at all, but they do.

[masster blaster]

Paxxton I think you may be right but we need other s to comfir on what you have on the youtube video.

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

Paxxton I think you may be right but we need other s to comfir on what you have on the youtube video.

Hence I reposted it for others to consider.

[LtBehemoth]

LtBehemoth wrote...

Maybe it was there, but still... 
When we find a proto-reaper at Cerberus Headquaters, Liara says "I don't like feel of that think. It's as though it knows we're here" and then Shepard says "It can watch all it wants".
According to the codex, isn't it the first steps of ind.? "As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched"

[masster blaster]

Well the others are trying to tell Legion that IT is not wrong. So I say keep posting it, or wait till Legion goes or realize that IT may be right.

[paxxton]

LtBehemoth wrote...

LtBehemoth wrote...

Maybe it was there, but still... 
When we find a proto-reaper at Cerberus Headquaters, Liara says "I don't like feel of that think. It's as though it knows we're here" and then Shepard says "It can watch all it wants".
According to the codex, isn't it the first steps of ind.? "As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched"

Liar-a! She recorded the message in the time capsule so it could be a bunch of lies. The war was won!

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Legion of 1337]

masster blaster wrote...

Legion Shepard wakes up at Earth not the Citadel, and Shepard oes wake up after the epilogue is over, and if the squad mates knew that Anderson was dead, then they should also know where Shepard is, and not have the Memorial scene at all, but they do.

We do not know exactly where Shepard wakes up. However, considering he would burn up on re-entry, it is safe to assume that he is on the Citadel.

Like I said, these are plot holes. They do not prove IT.

Modifié par Legion of 1337, 07 juillet 2012 - 07:59 .

[masster blaster]

It's possible that you are on to something LtBe, but right now I think the others are waiting for Legion to leave, or help Legion realize that IT is not dead, and support IT.

[paxxton]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Legion Shepard wakes up at Earth not the Citadel, and Shepard oes wake up after the epilogue is over, and if the squad mates knew that Anderson was dead, then they should also know where Shepard is, and not have the Memorial scene at all, but they do.

We do not know exactly where Shepard wakes up. However, considering he would burn up on re-entry, it is safe to assume that he is on the Citadel.

Like I said, these are plot holes. They do not prove IT.

No. Shepard is burning in HELL ON EARTH.

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:02 .

[masster blaster]

Legion you are missing the point. Shepard wakes up on Earth in a pile of Concret rubble, with wiers sticking out of the Concret, and if it's on the Citadel, then didn't anyone find Shepard on the Citadel if they found Anderson.

[Legion of 1337]

masster blaster wrote...

It's possible that you are on to something LtBe, but right now I think the others are waiting for Legion to leave, or help Legion realize that IT is not dead, and support IT.

Oh come on now - if no one argueed with you you'd all jsut sit here going 

"I think this proves IT"
"I agree"
"I agree too!"
"OMG we're so smart"
"We're all right"
"I love IT" 
"I love IT too"

etc.

A bunch of like-mided people sitting around telling each other they're right isn't interesting conversation.

[Either.Ardrey]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

Hallucinations tend to be less real-looking. Here there are no fuzzy images, no apparitions, no suggestive whispering, no confusion - everything looks real, looks as it should look. You can clearly see what is going on. The Catalyst is not a hallucination - it is attempting to influence you with a child hollogram, you can see this if you chose Refuse, where it's voice suddenly turns deep and sinister. 

Most of all though, EC shows us what happens aftewards. Not only that, but through the viewpoint of another character. It even shows us what other characters do afterwards. Are we supposed to believe all those events were made up? To what end? If IT were true then picking Destroy should snap Shepard out of it - but he doesn't "wake up" from anything.

Sorry, but there's suggestive whispering all over the place in the entire Citadel sequence. The Catalyst could just as much qualify as an apparation as much as not. And that whole sequence is still confusing, even after the EC. The only part that holds water is the no fuzzy images.

You also seem to agree with the purpose of the scene, though, you just come to a different conclusion on the how, given your stance with what I put in bolded italics. 

Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:05 .

[jgibson14352]

paxxton wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Legion Shepard wakes up at Earth not the Citadel, and Shepard oes wake up after the epilogue is over, and if the squad mates knew that Anderson was dead, then they should also know where Shepard is, and not have the Memorial scene at all, but they do.

We do not know exactly where Shepard wakes up. However, considering he would burn up on re-entry, it is safe to assume that he is on the Citadel.

Like I said, these are plot holes. They do not prove IT.

No. Shepard is burning in HELL ON EARTH.

http://i167.photobuc...do/Earthpic.jpg
proof. note byne posted this a super long time ago

[Iucounou]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

Iucounou wrote...

You still haven't said what about the EC disproves IT. I'm sure you are about to, though.

Hallucinations tend to be less real-looking. Here there are no fuzzy images, no apparitions, no suggestive whispering, no confusion - everything looks real, looks as it should look. You can clearly see what is going on. The Catalyst is not a hallucination - it is attempting to influence you with a child hollogram, you can see this if you chose Refuse, where it's voice suddenly turns deep and sinister. 

You do appreciate that you invalidate this argument with the use of the word "tend"?

[paxxton]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

It's possible that you are on to something LtBe, but right now I think the others are waiting for Legion to leave, or help Legion realize that IT is not dead, and support IT.

Oh come on now - if no one argueed with you you'd all jsut sit here going 

"I think this proves IT"
"I agree"
"I agree too!"
"OMG we're so smart"
"We're all right"
"I love IT" 
"I love IT too"

etc.

A bunch of like-mided people sitting around telling each other they're right isn't interesting conversation.

We are the pinnacle of evolution. We are eternal, infinite, immortal. We are omnipotent.
Winning. -> ITists <-

Modifié par paxxton, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:15 .

[masster blaster]

Also or if the Breath scene is that he wakes up from the the ending in Destroy and all that we see happens after Shepard get's hit is not real.

[Simon_Says]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

Hallucinations tend to be less real-looking. Here there are no fuzzy images, no apparitions, no suggestive whispering, no confusion - everything looks real, looks as it should look. You can clearly see what is going on. The Catalyst is not a hallucination - it is attempting to influence you with a child hollogram, you can see this if you chose Refuse, where it's voice suddenly turns deep and sinister. 

Most of all though, EC shows us what happens aftewards. Not only that, but through the viewpoint of another character. It even shows us what other characters do afterwards. Are we supposed to believe all those events were made up? To what end? If IT were true then picking Destroy should snap Shepard out of it - but he doesn't "wake up" from anything.

And your experience with hallucinations is what, exactly? Last time I checked, my schizophrenic aunt has hallucinations that appear perfectly real to her. That's why they frighten her so. And even then, even if we accept your ideas. Fuzzy images/apparitions: Starbrat, London's background. Suggestive whispering: dreams. Confusion, hell yes we were confused.

As for the child. Explain to us how it could have acquired this image of the child and know that it was emotionially significant for Shepard? Exactly. IT or no, something weird is going on in Shepard's head in the finale and the Starbrat's image is proof positive of that.

"If IT were true then picking Destroy should snap Shepard out of it - but he doesn't "wake up" from anything." What do you think we think the breath scene is, then?

As for the epilogues, they are till a matter of debate here. By no means is IT a complete theory*. A lot of folks think that the epilogue is a hallucination that reflects how Saren and TIM kept banging on about the glorious futures they were striving towards. Other folks such as myself think that it's not part of the hallucination, but that Control and Synthesis suggest things that are worrying (Shepard change of character in control, the way EDI's monologue sounds like typical indoctrinated propaganda).

Also, please get it out of your head that IT is all about whether Bioware intended it to be canon. Yes there are discussions here about that but ultimately IT is about an interpretation of ME3's storyline. If "IT is not true, period" then there would be no reason for Bioware to not go ahead and strike it down in an official statement. Instead, Bioware has said that the endings are left for interpretation and that some elements are meant to be non-literal. Someone find the link where they said that, because I know for a fact they said that. They even linked us when they said it.

That's not to say IT is capital-C canon. As the series stands right now it isn't. But don't make bold proclamations you don't have any real authority to proclamate.

*That's right. It's not complete. This thread is more than just us congratulating ourselves. We're still unsure of several things. There are multiple possibilities, and few definite answers.

Modifié par Simon_Says, 07 juillet 2012 - 08:24 .

[plfranke]

Iters please read this. If you chose to destroy maelon's data and killed wrex on virmire but you chose to cure the genophage what do you see after picking destroy? Because, logically speaking you should see a krogan horde rebelling and trying to take over the galaxy, however if you just see the krogan baby picture... that is huge evidence that shepard is simply making up what he wants to see

[masster blaster]

Nice post there Simon.

[Legion of 1337]

Iucounou wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

Iucounou wrote...

You still haven't said what about the EC disproves IT. I'm sure you are about to, though.

Hallucinations tend to be less real-looking. Here there are no fuzzy images, no apparitions, no suggestive whispering, no confusion - everything looks real, looks as it should look. You can clearly see what is going on. The Catalyst is not a hallucination - it is attempting to influence you with a child hollogram, you can see this if you chose Refuse, where it's voice suddenly turns deep and sinister. 

You do appreciate that you invalidate this argument with the use of the word "tend"?

Well, I suppose that if you were completely and utterly indoctrinated the Reapers could make you think everything you see is real, even if it's not.

But again, if that is the case, the Destroy ending should "snap" you out of it. It doesn't. There is nothing that shows Shepard  to be hallucinating, nothing proding him to agree with the Reapers. If they had truly indoctrinated him to the point where he could not tell the difference between reality and a vision (which he would have to be inorder for eveything to look real rather than as a dreamy state), he would have marched right over and initiated the Synthesis ending without a second thought. but he doesn't, does he? He doesn't agree with the Catalyst, he even argues with it. 

Just because the Catalyst is being decptive doesn't mean Shepard is indoctrinated. The Catalyst knows that Shepard came here with the intention of destroying him, so he needs to find a way to convince Shepard to follow along with the Catalyst's Snythesis plan.