55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Makrys]

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinate one of the LI's and alienate a choice you made throughout the series. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 05:39 .

[balance5050]

Bill Casey wrote...

Joker is the one crew member who has always been with Shepard...

Liara, Anderson, AND Joker are like Shepards best friends, the perfect targets to indoctrinate... I agree with Makrys though that it is indeed a tough pill to swallow.

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinate one of the LI's and alienate a choice you made throughout the series. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

Dude come on, you're letting your emotions blind you. Who better to indoctrinate than the LI of the Shepard himself..... mwwwaahahahhHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

[Makrys]

Its then, that my fellow brothers and sisters in the IT group lose me. Once you start saying, 'what if everyone's indoctrinated', you truly do look like you're grasping at straws. This is about Shepard. Not Joker, not Anderson, not Liara. Shepard.

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinate one of the LI's and alienate a choice you made throughout the series. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

Dude come on, you're letting your emotions blind you. Who better to indoctrinate than the LI of the Shepard himself..... mwwwaahahahhHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Excused for sarcasm. Not funny. Honestly, I take this seriously. 

[Rifneno]

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinated one of the LI's. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

I can see Liara winding up indoctrinated if there's a way to either prevent it or cure it.  You can get LI's killed in the suicide mission too, or let them play guard the nukee on Virmire (hehehe, "Ash to ashes", that's gold).  So I can see the possibility of a LI being killed, but I don't see them making it inevitable.

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

Its then, that my fellow brothers and sisters in the IT group lose me. Once you start saying, 'what if everyone's indoctrinated', you truly do look like you're grasping at straws. This is about Shepard. Not Joker, not Anderson, not Liara. Shepard.

Javik had to kill his entire crew with his bare hands, you do NOT know true pain.

Modifié par balance5050, 22 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[Makrys]

Rifneno wrote...

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinated one of the LI's. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

I can see Liara winding up indoctrinated if there's a way to either prevent it or cure it.  You can get LI's killed in the suicide mission too, or let them play guard the nukee on Virmire (hehehe, "Ash to ashes", that's gold).  So I can see the possibility of a LI being killed, but I don't see them making it inevitable.

All of those were choices you made. You chose to let your squadmates die, you chose to leave behind someone on Virmire. People who say Liara is indoctrinated explain it in such a way that there is nothing you can do about it. It goes against the core of Mass Effect, and makes no fundemental sense. Also, Liara has never exhibited any such examples of indoctrination. Its just ridiculous. To say the least.

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Its then, that my fellow brothers and sisters in the IT group lose me. Once you start saying, 'what if everyone's indoctrinated', you truly do look like you're grasping at straws. This is about Shepard. Not Joker, not Anderson, not Liara. Shepard.

Javik had to kill his entire crew with his bare hands, you do NOT know true pain.

And you do? Your point? Seriously, I don't want to argue about this. I don't even understand the point you're trying to make.

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 05:47 .

[balance5050]

Liara is the one who found the plans for the crucible in the first place no?

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Liara is the one who found the plans for the crucible in the first place no?

Because Hackett told her to look in a specific area maybe? 

[Rifneno]

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Its then, that my fellow brothers and sisters in the IT group lose me. Once you start saying, 'what if everyone's indoctrinated', you truly do look like you're grasping at straws. This is about Shepard. Not Joker, not Anderson, not Liara. Shepard.

Javik had to kill his entire crew with his bare hands, you do NOT know true pain.

I do know true pain, I have that **** failing up Grunt's quarters.

At one point he talks about not telling anyone what he eats, then after a minute curiously asks if it's true Shepard keeps fish in his cabin.  For once, it was easy to resist the urge to feed a troll.

[Arian Dynas]

Makrys wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Makrys wrote...

I absolutely loathe the whole "what if Liara was indoctrinated". Just stop, guys. That wouldn't happen. Especially to a LI. Please, its ridiculous.

Why is it rediculous, the best ones for indoctrination are the ones you place the most trust in, the ones who can get closest to Shepard.

Seriously, if this thread starts discussing that, I will leave. Bioware would not indoctrinate one of the LI's and alienate a choice you made throughout the series. And if they did come out and say Liara was indoctrinated, I would be done with them. Considering she is my LI, it would kill all potential replayability with the series. And no one would ever romance her because she's really just a Reaper agent. It's a dumb dumb dumb theory, and I wish people would stop being so desperate as to even mention it.

Fine then. What if it happens to your LI no matter who he or she is, and your EMS effects what happens with them.

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

Its then, that my fellow brothers and sisters in the IT group lose me. Once you start saying, 'what if everyone's indoctrinated', you truly do look like you're grasping at straws. This is about Shepard. Not Joker, not Anderson, not Liara. Shepard.

Javik had to kill his entire crew with his bare hands, you do NOT know true pain.

And you do? Your point? Seriously, I don't want to argue about this. I don't even understand the point you're trying to make.

The point I make is SO many people were indoctrinated in Javics cycle than they actually had to program their V.I.s to detect them. Indoctrination was a MAJOR threat in his cycle. They didn't have all the advantages that we did but they knew how dangerous indoc was. Something our cycle hasn't fully understood yet.

[dreamgazer]

That business with Anderson tapping on Shepard's abdomen makes my head hurt. I mean, really: out of all the places and out of the very few times he actually touches Shepard in the series, Anderson pats him/her right in the spot that's under heavy scrutiny in the conclusion? Right at the beginning, to get people's minds on it? Granted, I didn't make the connection, but I did think that whole stomach-patting felt strangely obvious and a little awkward the first time I saw it.

(sigh) It's like they were saying: "Here, look at this. Look at it. Here. This spot right here will eventually drive some of you a little mad".

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Liara is the one who found the plans for the crucible in the first place no?

Because Hackett told her to look in a specific area maybe? 

Hacket seems more indoc than Liara though.... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to erk you.

But Hacket could be indoc as well, all leading shepard to a trap.

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

[balance5050]

dreamgazer wrote...

That business with Anderson tapping on Shepard's abdomen makes my head hurt. I mean, really: out of all the places and out of the very few times he actually touches Shepard in the series, Anderson pats him/her right in the spot that's under heavy scrutiny in the conclusion? Right at the beginning, to get people's minds on it? Granted, I didn't make the connection, but I did think that whole stomach-patting felt strangely obvious and a little awkward the first time I saw it.

(sigh) It's like they were saying: "Here, look at this. Look at it. Here. This spot right here will eventually drive some of you a little mad".

It's just amazing that everything in the ending can be traced back to some earlier story point. I love how the entire game feels different with I.T. in mind. Indocrination can get you from any angle and I like. 

[dreamgazer]

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

I've had that in the back of my mind for a long while now---and, possibly, that coming in contact with the beacon in ME1 got this whole ball started.  They re-emphasized it with the beacon on Thessia, though they could have punctuated Shepard's past communication with them a bit more clearly.

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Liara is the one who found the plans for the crucible in the first place no?

Because Hackett told her to look in a specific area maybe? 

Hacket seems more indoc than Liara though.... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to erk you.

But Hacket could be indoc as well, all leading shepard to a trap.

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

Moving on to talk about Shepard...

I think it would be interesting if that were at least partly why the Reapers were so interested in him. Or I guess I should say, ARE, considering they aren't destroyed yet, assuming the IT is true. 

But really, Shepard has a Prothean cipher in his brain... would this mean that if the Reapers could harvest Shepard they would be getting both Prothean and Human samples? Two of the best, basically? Would explain why they want him so badly. Apart from being the leader of the galaxy that is.  

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 06:02 .

[balance5050]

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

I've had that in the back of my mind for a long while now---and, possibly, that coming in contact with the beacon in ME1 got this whole ball started.  They re-emphasized it with the beacon on Thessia, though they could have punctuated Shepard's past communication with them a bit more clearly.

I've also had this in mind for a long time. He still has this cipher even through the Lazerus project. WHAT IS IT? Some random genetic anomoly?

[Makrys]

balance5050 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

I've had that in the back of my mind for a long while now---and, possibly, that coming in contact with the beacon in ME1 got this whole ball started.  They re-emphasized it with the beacon on Thessia, though they could have punctuated Shepard's past communication with them a bit more clearly.

I've also had this in mind for a long time. He still has this cipher even through the Lazerus project. WHAT IS IT? Some random genetic anomoly?

If they somehow connected it with the ending, it would finally be a plot element from the first game that mattered. :happy:

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 06:07 .

[Destructorlio]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

"our"???

You best believe it's our game.....it's how they always advertised it and should the EC flop the initial outrage will seem like a minor issue in comparison....that's when things get even more serious....Mass Returns and their fan base essentially gone. 

I disagree. Clearly it's Bioware's game- we just enjoy the fruits of their labor.

UrgedDuke wrote...

does anyone else find the lack of info Bioware has given us disturbing, and what I mean by that is the cryptic answers they give us when asked about IT. Also the lack of confirmation/disapproval of IT

 

This feels to me like something Bioware HAS to do in order for IT to work. If they confirmed it OR denied it, the EC would be severly crippled. Enjoy it, folks- it's a genuine mystery.

legaldinho wrote...

just replayed tuchanka, third time. This time with the music off, and wandering around changing the settings on my headphones to hear the sounds, especially as I approach the starchild. No way anyone can convince me this isn't supposed to indicate the process of indoctrination is under way... and the child is a sinister character as the sounds escalate as you get closer, with the- super clear- harbinger filter being used for the low murmurs.

 

Sorry, can you clarify what you mean- do you encounter the child in Tuchanka, or are you referring to the linked dream sequence?

liggy002 wrote...

Hey all, take a look at the image posted in this thread by Bill Casey. New IT implications: 



http://social.biowar...5495/4#12175467

Bioware is indeed hinting at it.

 

Where does this image take place? At the start of the game? Do we have the sequence on youtube for further analysis?

JasonSic wrote...

 My friend found something. In the Voice Cast Reveal trailer, at 3:36, Martin Sheen says:
"Stay tuned, heh... I'm not done yet, LOL!"

I'm guessing this video was made after all the Voice Work was recorded. He's gotta be hinting towards something, since the Illusive Man is 'dead'.

Video

 

I noticed this also- I think it's a definite clue. We'll know for sure once he comes back for VO work (gasp! Unless they did it already to be sneaky!)- keep your scanners peeled.

dmay7 wrote...

If the Indoctrinated theory is true, then my opinion on the ending completely changes. After I head the theory, I immediately played all the endings. During control and synthesis, Shepard 'dissolves', but look at his eyes, they turn blue. My characters is brown. He gets the same eyes that TIM has. He's turning into a husk. Whereas in Destroy, he stops limping halfway through shooting the conduit, and the catylist fades out of existence. Not to mention that it is clearly London rubble that Shepard wakes up to. AND the fact that Andersons wound suddenly winds up on Shepard.

BTW, am I the only one who thought that TIM was like all half-husk in the end? I mean look at his skin.

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of IT. What's amazing is that literalists IN THIS VERY THREAD have complained that if IT was true, there would be more obvious clues. Really?!? More obvious than the breath scene, and the Normandy dream scene, and the tree reflections in the crucible room, and turning into a husk?!? By this stage I feel like we are being bombarded with clues, ALL of which point to IT! How can people still not believe?

Makrys wrote...

Not sure if this has been mentioned at all, but even if so, its worth throwin out there again for anyone who hasn't seen it. A couple tweets were discovered a while back that were pretty revealing... then were later deleted. Intriguing? Here they are:

First one - @masseffect @PatrickWeekes did you feel pressured to change the ending, Isn't it important to stick to your guns on some things?

@satootaku We never said we were changing it We have ALWAYS had big plans for ME3. It isn't a response-It's been in the works

Second - @masseffect Whats with the ending? It was confusing and very dreamlike was it supposed to be like that?
Mass Effect Mass Effect ‏ @masseffect

@kaladur The ending was as we intended, so yes?

I didn't post the link because it just goes to a discussion board where the quotes are simply posted. But I would like to give a shout out to Mr. Bill Casey who posted the link a few days ago on another thread which is where I found it. Always on top of your evidence, Mr. Casey.

So... what do you guys think of that? Seems pretty revealing to me. And Priestly's response was laughable. Just a pure cover up, nothing more.

 



This is a great find, and in my eyes totally validates the IT/EC was planned perspective. Q: Who are @satootaku and @kaladur?

I appreciate the lengths they have gone to to keep this covered up. It's certainly providing a lot of...


....SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE! 

Modifié par Destructorlio, 22 mai 2012 - 06:24 .

[Makrys]

Destructorlio wrote...

This is a great find, and in my eyes totally validates the IT/EC was planned perspective. Q: Who are @satootaku and @kaladur?

I appreciate the lengths they have gone to to keep this covered up. It's certainly providing a lot of...


....SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE! 

Just some fans on twitter I imagine. And I agree... seems pretty convincing proof that this has been planned.

Modifié par Makrys, 22 mai 2012 - 06:09 .

[Rifneno]

balance5050 wrote...

The point I make is SO many people were indoctrinated in Javics cycle than they actually had to program their V.I.s to detect them. Indoctrination was a MAJOR threat in his cycle. They didn't have all the advantages that we did but they knew how dangerous indoc was. Something our cycle hasn't fully understood yet.

Seriously? Javik's cycle was far more technologically advanced than ours. Especially in the way of warfare. Don't believe me? Just ask the Zha'til's sun. Wait, nevermind, the Protheans blew it up. The whole star.

I think this cycle is actually probably low tech compared to usual. The cycle is 50,000 years. The first race of our cycle to develop FTL was the asari, less than 3,000 years ago. We're missing out on tens of thousands of years of technological advancement. The yagh for instance would have nearly the entire 50,000 to advance should we lose the war.

Hacket seems more indoc than Liara though.... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to erk you.

But Hacket could be indoc as well, all leading shepard to a trap.

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

I don't think Hackett is indoctrinated. I think if he was, he'd be more open to TIM's philosophy of controlling them. Hackett shows no sign of any doubt in the fact that the goal is dead Reapers. He might be making a bad call about the Crucible, but a bad call doesn't mean you're indoctrinated.

...

I'm still seriously curious if the Zha'til are seeker swarms now.

[balance5050]

Makrys wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Shepard is chosen, is it because he has the Prothean cipher perhaps?

I've had that in the back of my mind for a long while now---and, possibly, that coming in contact with the beacon in ME1 got this whole ball started.  They re-emphasized it with the beacon on Thessia, though they could have punctuated Shepard's past communication with them a bit more clearly.

I've also had this in mind for a long time. He still has this cipher even through the Lazerus project. WHAT IS IT? Some random genetic anomoly?

If they somehow connected it with the ending, it would finally be a plot element from the first game that mattered. :happy:

At first I thought it had something to do with the way the Protheans reprogrammed the Citadel, so only a Prothean (or someone with a cipher) could truly use it to it's full potential.

But then I read again and saw that they only reprogrammed the Keepers. So I still don't know how exactly it would tie in.