55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BansheeOwnage]

comrade gando wrote...

seems apparent that bioware is or was planning something uber clever with this game. infrasound, links to red herrings, inconsistencies abound in the last 20 minutes, everybody acting out of character, unexplained plot holes, my friggin' crosshairs wobbling in the last mission... there's gotta be more to this. building a consensus...

Yes and that's honestly just scratching the surface of what evidence there is for BW planning indoctrination.

[BatmanTurian]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I just found it by accident and thought it was intriguing. Maybe we can get someone who can mod in here to replace the model in the game as in the picture and put up a video? Then it would be easier to accept, especially if you have Miranda talking with Starkid's voice.

I need to look into how to mod it as I have little experience. Sounds like fun though and I would mod that myself.

Edit: I'm on top again huh? Now this is just getting repetitive.

That would be cool if you did that. It would point out more clearly Starkid's facial expression. That smug smirk is damning actually if this picture is to be believed and if what we perceived is true.

[BansheeOwnage]

BatmanTurian wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

I just found it by accident and thought it was intriguing. Maybe we can get someone who can mod in here to replace the model in the game as in the picture and put up a video? Then it would be easier to accept, especially if you have Miranda talking with Starkid's voice.

I need to look into how to mod it as I have little experience. Sounds like fun though and I would mod that myself.

Edit: I'm on top again huh? Now this is just getting repetitive.

That would be cool if you did that. It would point out more clearly Starkid's facial expression. That smug smirk is damning actually if this picture is to be believed and if what we perceived is true.

Yes. I've heard stuff about gibbed save editor or something like that but I should really get around to modding my PC version.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .

[BatmanTurian]

I'm out. let me know with a pm if this pans out.

[BansheeOwnage]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm out. let me know with a pm if this pans out.

I'm out too.

[BansheeOwnage]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm out. let me know with a pm if this pans out.

I'm out too.

[Lokanaiya]

Guess I'm out. Good night all.

[TSA_383]

BatmanTurian wrote...

hey guys, i don't know if any of you have seen this but I was looking for ME images and I found this curious image.

It seems someone put Miranda in the place of the Catalyst, gave her its animation and " glow ", and it shows the face the Catalyst makes after Shep chooses Control. Again, pardon me if you guys have seen this already.



EDIT: I could be wrong. Not sure.

Now That's some goooooood evidence

Now we just need someone to swap the models over and flycam it

Modifié par TSA_383, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:17 .

[jgibson14352]

TSA_383 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

hey guys, i don't know if any of you have seen this but I was looking for ME images and I found this curious image.

It seems someone put Miranda in the place of the Catalyst, gave her its animation and " glow ", and it shows the face the Catalyst makes after Shep chooses Control. Again, pardon me if you guys have seen this already.



EDIT: I could be wrong. Not sure.

Now That's some goooooood evidence

Now we just need someone to swap the models over and flycam it

miranda only used biotics once in ME3, after she killed her dad, and she wasnt smiling after that, so id say this is legit

[comrade gando]

BatmanTurian wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

seems apparent that bioware is or was planning something uber clever with this game. infrasound, links to red herrings, inconsistencies abound in the last 20 minutes, everybody acting out of character, unexplained plot holes, my friggin' crosshairs wobbling in the last mission... there's gotta be more to this. building a consensus...

Oh don't worry. It's probably just laziness and bad writing. The Bioware writers are terrible afterall. They're just awful hacks. They should be writing toaster instructions /sarcasm

oh yeah since they were just so terrible with the entire story. jk really though the story was amazing but then everything after harbinger's laser it's as if mac walters' untalented alter ego held the writing team hostage and made them write the most rediculous ending he could think of as sloppily as they could. wtf is going on here

[niravital]

TSA_383 wrote...
Now That's some goooooood evidence

Now we just need someone to swap the models over and flycam it

Anyone tried to flycam the Starchild now? maybe from an angle his expression will be more clear?

[prettz]

niravital wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...
Now That's some goooooood evidence

Now we just need someone to swap the models over and flycam it

Anyone tried to flycam the Starchild now? maybe from an angle his expression will be more clear?

I've tried but never can get a good look. of course I've now realized that I had FXAA TOOL on so it probably made the Starchild to bright to see:pinched:

[Arian Dynas]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

You know what I'm going to apologize. I read up everything I could about this; took quite a few hours actually, lot of info.

IT is not completely baseless as I dismissed it - I should have read up everything on it first. It's a clever theory, thought up by some clever people. You are certainly all entitled to your opinion.

Unfortunately for me, and many others as well, the fact is that while the "literalist" theory, as you call it (the commonly-held idea that the endings show what actually happened), has actual hard evidence to support it (like, you know, the entire ending and everything shown in it), most of Indoctrination Theory is derived from circumstantial evidence. As clever as it is, there isn't, from my point of view, any hard evidence to make IT more believable than accepting that what we are shown literally happened.

Fascinating idea though. Hope you can forgive my rushed assumptions. Though I looked through the comments and I don't know if this will change your minds about me being a flame-baiter as some have expressed.

By your logic, the hallucinations that schizophrenics see are real too, then. 

Even when the developer says that it's up for interpretation, people still think that everything they see in the game has to be taken at face value. Personally I feel that the fact that they say it's up for interpretation at all should be a massive clue to people, but that's just me. 

I'm just thinking about it like a judge in a court. Everyone's sitting around arguing that their particular version of events is right because Bioware, for whatever reason, has left a bazillion plot holes unexplained.

So, I look at the alternate theories, of which IT is the largest, and go "OK, there's evidence here, but it's not hard evidence. The game does not explicitly prove it. And it doesn't explicitly prove any other theory either. The only ending analysis with hard evidence (that evidece being the ending itself) behind it is the one that requires the least thought: what we see is what happened." When challenging what we assume to be fact (the ending being literal, in this case), the burden of proof is on those presenting the alternative. Unless Bioware explains things further, everythign else relies too much on speculation. 

Thus, I choose take the ending literally because otherwise I must make assumptions that may or may not be true.

You are free to interperet the evidence as you want. This is mine.

In court, circumstantial evidence is enough to convict if there is enough of it.

If the prosecution (IT in this case) were to attempt to prove guilt through circumstantial evidence, and the defence (literal ending) has physical evidence, the defence will win regardless of how compelling the circumstantial evidence may be. As much as I like speculation (don't get me started on JFK and RFK^_^) , if I have to make a final descision I cannot go off of assumptions, I can only go off what we have, and what we have is the ending itself with no explicit indication of Indoctrination.

That is how I think.

Yeeeeeees, but if you turn that around we have MORE than enough room for reasonable doubt.

[Arian Dynas]

HellishFiend wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...
This comes down to interpretation of how compelling each piece of evidence is to you. For me (and, you must remember, most of us) most of the evidence for IT is too much of an assumption to make it more believable than taking it literally. In the end, since IT is never proven explicity, we must either make assumptions (IT) or take it at face value (literalism).

That's ok, I'm sure BW would be disappointed if everyone figured it out. 

Where you see assumptions, we see logical, justified conclusions and reasonable speculations backed up by lore and precedent. 

Basically, simply because you cannot follow a paticular thought process to reach the same conclusion, does not necessarily mean it was based on assumption.

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...
This comes down to interpretation of how compelling each piece of evidence is to you. For me (and, you must remember, most of us) most of the evidence for IT is too much of an assumption to make it more believable than taking it literally. In the end, since IT is never proven explicity, we must either make assumptions (IT) or take it at face value (literalism).

That's ok, I'm sure BW would be disappointed if everyone figured it out. 

Where you see assumptions, we see logical, justified conclusions and reasonable speculations backed up by lore and precedent. 

I like to compare it to JFK. As compelling and convincing the theories may be, this is all we can say for certain:

Lee Harvey Oswald killed John F. Kennedy. That's it. That's all we can state as fact.

I take a similar stance with this ending.

The problem with your comparison is that the whole JFK thing is something that actually happened. Things that happen in real life do not have meaning or metaphors attached to them.

Fiction does have meanings and metaphors and they are often hidden and meant to be dug out of the work and contemplated. Fiction is not reality and reality is not fiction. You cannot compare the two because fiction has meaning and symbols attached to the events whereas reality is just random variables of chance and happenstance " full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. "

I thought about that. In truth, there is no way for me to completely refute your theory because everything is opinion.

However, ME has never been known for hidden meanings in the past. Ideas are clearly presented - what makes them significant are the moral implications. Hell, BW couldn't even plan out the whole story for the series before hand - they scrapped the original plot for ME3 even though they had already hinted at it in ME2. So I'm not convinced they had been planning this out for 3 games, and then never come out and present it as fact. It doesn't fit the "up front" nature of the rest of the game.

Obviously, however, it convinces you, and I'm never going to convince you otherwise, even if I tried.

The writers are subtle enough that the player has to add things said up to realize that the PTSD Asari killed Joker's sister, but not subtle enough to pull off an Inception ending? Either way, we're both looking at it through different lenses and that is our fundamental difference. I look at it like a visual novel that I'm playing. You look at it like a Call of Duty game where everything is upfront and obvious. It is not always so in the Mass Effect universe or games.

You know, come to think of it, that's what Mass Effect SHOULD be advertised as. It is not and never has been a spectacularly good shooter.

It is however a kickass RPG/visual novel.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Arian Dynas wrote...

You know, come to think of it, that's what Mass Effect SHOULD be advertised as. It is not and never has been a spectacularly good shooter.

It is however a kickass RPG/visual novel.

That's what I originally thought it was when I first picked it up, but with the improved combat system in ME3 I like to label it as a Shooter/RPG/novel.

[Arian Dynas]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

The way people analyse and extrapolate data, dig for clues..the creators of this theory should be detectives.

We are.

And I will tell you this then.

If you would like to look at the whole thing logically, let's look at it logically.

Either;

A). Bioware and it's writing team, as well as QA, the rendering team and the art department, suddenly forgot that the human body cannot survive vaccum, explosions in excess of megatons of force,  or the heat of re-entry, while simaltaneously forgetting that events have continuity, that one object cannot inexplicably morph into another without outside effects, and any number of other plot holes that a drunken monkey could spot and could easily be fixed with only the slightest of effort in the WRITING stage, while simaltaneously thinking that lack of attention to detail, which has already previously gotten them panned with Deception, would somehow not anger their fanbase, and somehow managed to delude themselves into thinking that an overly saccharine fairy tale ending that happens to completely contradict everything they have stated in the story up until now is "art"

Or

. It's intentional and it's all in *picture of Shepard* in this guy's head?

[Arian Dynas]

Legion of 1337 wrote...

This really is like a giant information-collecting machine. Every smidgen of the game analyzed, every conversation, background noise, out of place comment, for every game, every bit of ME related material. Then it all gets collected, and a bazillion people analyze it and come to consensus about what it means for the theory.

I don't believe a word of it but your dedication is amazing.

We are building consensus. 

[Arian Dynas]

byne wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

A lot of people and worse, but back to the subject:

I've been doing a little bit of "geneology"

I'm finding IT theory dating back to at least March 12. I didn't really get involved until April, but thinking that it had already developed before a week was up... that's deep.

Would a picture of my first draft of my first post in the original IT thread, complete with a timestamp showing when I wrote it help in any way?

*snip*

I made my first appearance on the scene on page 299 of the old thread.

[Arian Dynas]

Dwailing wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Legion of 1337 wrote...

The way people analyse and extrapolate data, dig for clues..the creators of this theory should be detectives.

Damn straight.

Did you ever see the thing with the QR codes?

http://social.biowar.../index/12159086

Why do I get the feeling that if Batman were here, he would have come to the same conclusion that we did?

Batman is here, you have the same avatar. 

[Arian Dynas]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

hey guys, i don't know if any of you have seen this but I was looking for ME images and I found this curious image.

It seems someone put Miranda in the place of the Catalyst, gave her its animation and " glow ", and it shows the face the Catalyst makes after Shep chooses Control. Again, pardon me if you guys have seen this already.

*snip*

i knew that Catalyst was smileing, and WT*. How did they do that, and where did you find this?

Just mod it and replace his character model with someone else's. When I figure out how to mod, I'm totally replacing him with my Shepard. Oh, the implications! Shepard seeing herself in the dream with the kid, only to see herself in the end instead of the kid. Holy crap I can't get over how awesomely weird it would be to have SHEPARD as the "catalyst"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shepard speaking to himself.

Yeah THAT'S not creepy and foreshadowing at all.

[byne]

Arian Dynas wrote...

byne wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

A lot of people and worse, but back to the subject:

I've been doing a little bit of "geneology"

I'm finding IT theory dating back to at least March 12. I didn't really get involved until April, but thinking that it had already developed before a week was up... that's deep.

Would a picture of my first draft of my first post in the original IT thread, complete with a timestamp showing when I wrote it help in any way?

*snip*

I made my first appearance on the scene on page 299 of the old thread.

So, I went back and looked at page 299 of the old thread.

Arian Dynas wrote...


Jesus H Christ...

It just occurred to me.

What if this theory is absolutely correct...

WHAT IF, INDEED!

[Arian Dynas]

estebanus wrote...
LOL! Pretty interesting description though. 


Funny thing though, a few days ago I was at a rodeo in Idaho. After the show was done there was this one redneck who started insulting me because of my T-shirt, on which there stood "God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance." He starts calling me a godless heathen, and that he should shoot me at the spot, and I tell him that he isn't acting as a christian according to the bible should. The he starts calling me a communist and democrat supporter, and then I said "funny thing though, christianity is pretty left wing if you  think about it", and then he says I'm wrong. I then proceeded to ask him if he even read the bible, which he of course didn't do. He then just keeps on insulting me and calling me an idiot again and again even after I explained to him why christianity is left-wing. He just continues to call me wrong and says I'm lying even though he didn't even read the bible! 
In the end, I just said "screw this" and went away, and he looked at me with his stupid smug look. 

"Git a brain morans!"

[Arian Dynas]

estebanus wrote...
The chantry always did remind me of the catholic church during the middle ages:P

You do realize that was kind of the entire point, right?

[byne]

I kind of miss the old Arian wall-o-text mass reply.