55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromidius]

lythran9 wrote...

I also find it weird that TIM is being controlled by the reapers (if the citadel cut scene is real) yet he can control Shepard.... Surely by technicality the reapers can control Shepard? Again all depends if that scene actually happened!

Indeed.  And saying 'we controlled him' heavily implies that 'we control you' by proxy.

So yeah >_>

[CoolioThane]

Quick question:

Would any IT-ers (and non) be happy with the following:

- IT never confirmed
- Each DLC adds a bit more to the refuse ending
- Eventually leading to a conventional victory with all DLC

I think I would.

[UltimateTobi]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

lythran9 wrote...

I also find it weird that TIM is being controlled by the reapers (if the citadel cut scene is real) yet he can control Shepard.... Surely by technicality the reapers can control Shepard? Again all depends if that scene actually happened!

No, not even the Reapers would from all we have shown be able to control Shepard the way TIM does it.

The closest the Reapers get is "assuming direct control" but that also seems to take control of the subjects brain and all motor functions. Also "assuming direct control" requires a fully indoctrinated subject from what we know, not just someone in the process. The way Shepard and Anderson is controlled they both remain fully aware and even more importantly both can still speak their mind.

It is unprecedented in Mass Effect.

And not to forget, the subject which gets "assumed" by "direct control" dies. Hence it's useless after it gets released.

[SubAstris]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Honestly, I'm confused. How is Reject Shepard being indecisive? He's not, at all. He just staying true to the themes of free will, self-determination, and doing the impossible. It's the only ending where he does this, actually. He's not just rejecting the Reapers themselves, he's rejecting everything the Reapers are and everything they stand for, and choosing to never, ever compromise with the Reapers at all. Destroy involves accepting, at least on some level, that Starbibger is telling the truth, and you never argue with him at all. You just accept what he says as truth.

Have to agree

He chooses to do nothing.

In Destroy he chooses to destroy the Reapers, the aim from Mass Effect 1 throughout 2 and 3. 

Doing nothing is not destroying the Reapers, therefore succumbs to indoctrination.

He is positively taking a stand against everything the Catalyst stands for. How is this doing nothing?

[MaximizedAction]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Honestly, I'm confused. How is Reject Shepard being indecisive? He's not, at all. He just staying true to the themes of free will, self-determination, and doing the impossible. It's the only ending where he does this, actually. He's not just rejecting the Reapers themselves, he's rejecting everything the Reapers are and everything they stand for, and choosing to never, ever compromise with the Reapers at all. Destroy involves accepting, at least on some level, that Starbibger is telling the truth, and you never argue with him at all. You just accept what he says as truth.

Have to agree

He chooses to do nothing.

In Destroy he chooses to destroy the Reapers, the aim from Mass Effect 1 throughout 2 and 3. 

Doing nothing is not destroying the Reapers, therefore succumbs to indoctrination.

He isn't "doing nothing". Did you see him sit down, throw away his gun, take out his harmonica and play carelessly? No!

He spoke out that he actively refuses to chose from a buffet that was served by the Reapers. The main message if this is not a sign of indecisiveness but opposition. Since when is this a bad thing?

EDIT: Hm, 'd by SubAstris. Should I worry?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .

[legaldinho]

Refuse is the better canonical ending if IT is canonical. But destroy is the better ending for me. Played again yesterday with my vanguard, and I still feel my shepard, not knowing it is a dream, would take the safe decision- in case the destroy option actually does anything- and choose that option. Not gladly, because the loss of the geth and edi would be hard. But many died to end the reaper threat, and unless shepard actually believes in the catalyst's assertions that the technological singularity is inevitable- which I can't see why he would, they are only assertions- he must believe that hard choices must be made to destroy the reapers.

Modifié par legaldinho, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .

[CoolioThane]

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Honestly, I'm confused. How is Reject Shepard being indecisive? He's not, at all. He just staying true to the themes of free will, self-determination, and doing the impossible. It's the only ending where he does this, actually. He's not just rejecting the Reapers themselves, he's rejecting everything the Reapers are and everything they stand for, and choosing to never, ever compromise with the Reapers at all. Destroy involves accepting, at least on some level, that Starbibger is telling the truth, and you never argue with him at all. You just accept what he says as truth.

Have to agree

He chooses to do nothing.

In Destroy he chooses to destroy the Reapers, the aim from Mass Effect 1 throughout 2 and 3. 

Doing nothing is not destroying the Reapers, therefore succumbs to indoctrination.

He is positively taking a stand against everything the Catalyst stands for. How is this doing nothing?

Because he has the "chance to destroy the Reapers" - yes, the Catalyst is a nob - but by refusing he just watches everyone die...even by killing the Geth you're saving everyone else  Just my thoughts though

Don't get me wrong, I like Refuse, but find, as it currently stands, it is pointless

[CoolioThane]

Flog61 wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

Quick question:

Would any IT-ers (and non) be happy with the following:

- IT never confirmed
- Each DLC adds a bit more to the refuse ending
- Eventually leading to a conventional victory with all DLC

I think I would.

Y'know, I think I would too mate, but only if the dlc was free. Otherwise we will have to fork out, like, £40 just to have the best ending

True, though that's what EA does best! Makes you pay way more than you should for a complete game - They've already charged for Javik

[Vaya]

Arian Dynas wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

I'm still almost 100% sure that Chronos and Cronus are two separate different beings O.o

The whole point is the Chronos actually is the personification of Time.
Cronus is the God of the passing of time, the Harvest etc. He also parallels TIM to a large extent.

They have the same root (as you say, from Chron...) but they are different beings.

I've found the source of the confusion.

Khronus, latinized as Chronus, was the personification of time in pre-Socratic literature and philosophy.

Chronus was later conflated with the distinct god Cronus also known as Kronus, Kronos, Saturn, Saturnus, who was the Titan god of time in post-Socratic literature and the two apparently later became the same deity in mythology and literature.

Well, that and other sources say that the two were merely aspects of the same deity, each known as a distinct god in their own right.

Yeah, mythology can be a pain.

Yeah, I was going to say something about them being two conceptually different entities, but it looks like that got covered. And as a literary reference they're conflated enough that it dosen't really matter.

I would assume that naming it Cronos station would imply the Titan overthrowing it primordial creator, TIM taking the place of or controlling the reapers.

That or it's a giant time machine, since Synthesis is allready "teaching the reapers to love"

An implied link to Saturn, the planet, is interesting but completely unsupported.

[legaldinho]

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

CoolioThane wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Honestly, I'm confused. How is Reject Shepard being indecisive? He's not, at all. He just staying true to the themes of free will, self-determination, and doing the impossible. It's the only ending where he does this, actually. He's not just rejecting the Reapers themselves, he's rejecting everything the Reapers are and everything they stand for, and choosing to never, ever compromise with the Reapers at all. Destroy involves accepting, at least on some level, that Starbibger is telling the truth, and you never argue with him at all. You just accept what he says as truth.

Have to agree

He chooses to do nothing.

In Destroy he chooses to destroy the Reapers, the aim from Mass Effect 1 throughout 2 and 3. 

Doing nothing is not destroying the Reapers, therefore succumbs to indoctrination.

He is positively taking a stand against everything the Catalyst stands for. How is this doing nothing?

Because he has the "chance to destroy the Reapers" - yes, the Catalyst is a nob - but by refusing he just watches everyone die...even by killing the Geth you're saving everyone else  Just my thoughts though

Don't get me wrong, I like Refuse, but find, as it currently stands, it is pointless

if IT is true, none of the choices the catalyst offers shep actually do anything in the material world. On that basis refusing whatsoever to engage with the catalyst's logic is arguably a better sign of successfully fending off indoctrination, and furthermore, the reasons given: centred on self-determination and free-will, are most sound in that context.

[CoolioThane]

legaldinho wrote...


if IT is true, none of the choices the catalyst offers shep actually do anything in the material world. On that basis refusing whatsoever to engage with the catalyst's logic is arguably a better sign of successfully fending off indoctrination, and furthermore, the reasons given: centred on self-determination and free-will, are most sound in that context.

I see where you're coming from! Maybe either would allow Shep to break free, though I doubt it, one of the two must be right.

[Andromidius]

CoolioThane wrote...

Quick question:

Would any IT-ers (and non) be happy with the following:

- IT never confirmed
- Each DLC adds a bit more to the refuse ending
- Eventually leading to a conventional victory with all DLC

I think I would.

Yeah, and I'd revise my opinion of whether or not Destroy or Refusal is the best option if they did it 'correctly'.

Tempted to play some Multiplayer (PC)...

[Lokanaiya]

Whew, and here I thought I was going to be arguing against everyone else in the thread! Glad to see I'm not alone!

And Maximized, yes, exactly! That's MY Shepard that told Star Jar where he could stuff it! That's MY Shepard that stood up for the themes present throughout the series! And, on top of that, he gave an Epic Shepard Speech! How can that be bad?

[CoolioThane]

God - Stressing out watching the tennis. Finally Murray wins this game, it's lasted ages. Now just two sets to go xD

[Andromidius]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Whew, and here I thought I was going to be arguing against everyone else in the thread! Glad to see I'm not alone!

And Maximized, yes, exactly! That's MY Shepard that told Star Jar where he could stuff it! That's MY Shepard that stood up for the themes present throughout the series! And, on top of that, he gave an Epic Shepard Speech! How can that be bad?

I like Refuse because of the speech.

I don't like it because it leads to nothing.  Its all promise, no payoff.

Yet.

(Andromidius on Origin, add me if you're bored)

[UltimateTobi]

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

Interesting. Maybe I should try a full on Renegade playthrough in ME3 and see if it really resembles a SarenShep?

EDIT: Nope. Nothing badassful about slaughtering your friends.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[UltimateTobi]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

Interesting. Maybe I should try a full on Renegade playthrough in ME3 and see if it really resembles a SarenShep?

Well, TBH I don't like Renegade Sheps. Especially not on ME3. There, he's the true human Reaper LOL. ^^

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

Interesting. Maybe I should try a full on Renegade playthrough in ME3 and see if it really resembles a SarenShep?

Well, TBH I don't like Renegade Sheps. Especially not on ME3. There, he's the true human Reaper LOL. ^^

I just saw the part with Legion.

No thanks, I'll just take this as evidence that ME3 Renegade is Saren minus the eyes (which can be modded on).

[Lokanaiya]

Andromidius, yeah, you're right. Reject has the greatest potential out of all of them, both in literal and IT, but right now it's wasted.

And I may, but just to warn you I'm not a very good player. My ID is Kavrea.

[UltimateTobi]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

Interesting. Maybe I should try a full on Renegade playthrough in ME3 and see if it really resembles a SarenShep?

Well, TBH I don't like Renegade Sheps. Especially not on ME3. There, he's the true human Reaper LOL. ^^

I just saw the part with Legion.

No thanks, I'll just take this as evidence that ME3 Renegade is Saren minus the eyes (which can be modded on).

You can Renegade-action Legion 3 times. 3 shots in total. That's a little rude. Poor Legion.

[Andromidius]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Andromidius, yeah, you're right. Reject has the greatest potential out of all of them, both in literal and IT, but right now it's wasted.

And I may, but just to warn you I'm not a very good player. My ID is Kavrea.

Doesn't matter, I just want a bit of company while I gather some credits.  My gear is dreadful right now.

[Lokanaiya]

Ok, I'll add you as soon as I get home. Should be about 2.5 hours.