55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaya]

legaldinho wrote...

if IT is true, none of the choices the catalyst offers shep actually do anything in the material world.

Not necessarily. The evidence for IT just implies very strongly that the reapers are in Shepard's head and that things are not as they seem. Exactly what is really going on at the time isn't clear and could be a walking hallucination.

As a hypothesis of a walking hallucination.

1- The Crucible is a trap, the plans are provided by the reapers to every cycle. The crucible is actually a power supply for ...

2- The Citadel, which is a giant reaper factory, like the collector base in ME2.

3- The reapers want Shepard for the same reasons they had in ME2, to be the "soul" for the next reaper.

4- Shepard's actions on the end of the citadel are real actions, they just don't have the consequences that are given by the literal endings.

We have a body of clues that are in the game, but exactly how they fit is too speculative at this point to give us a definative answer.

Modifié par Vaya, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:56 .

[BatmanTurian]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Anyway, can we get someone to confirm if Rifneno is right about the Catalyst effect making any model it is applied to transparent?

Might debunk this particular piece of evidence if so, either that or we need someone to remove the catalyst effect so we can just see the basic kid model and see what it's reactions are.

perhaps that is why someone used the biotic effect instead so the model could be seen. Maybe the biotic effect can't be applied to the little boy's model.

[FFZero]

BatmanTurian wrote...

hey guys, i don't know if any of you have seen this but I was looking for ME images and I found this curious image.

It seems someone put Miranda in the place of the Catalyst, gave her its animation and " glow ", and it shows the face the Catalyst makes after Shep chooses Control. Again, pardon me if you guys have seen this already.



EDIT: I could be wrong. Not sure.

Okay sorrys chaps but, as much as it pains me to do this, I’m going to have to debunk this new piece of evidence.

1). As far as I know, there is no way to replace models in the game, and that picture looks like it’s from ME2. The lighting isn’t as soft as ME3 and the hair model and textures look a lot more...solid. The hair models/textures may still look a bit stiff in ME3 but they’re a lot more natural than ME2.

2.) Any effect can be applied to any model because those effects are basically materials, textures that have been combined to create a certain appearance or effect. There is no way to extract materials from the game itself, just the textures. You have to remake the materials yourself in either the UDK or a 3D program.

Basically if this was a picture of Miranda replacing the Starbrat she would look exactly the same, all transparent and glowing.

The only way to even attempt to find out if the starbrat is smiling or showing any expression in that scene is to find the anim-set linked to him and apply it to his model in something like the unreal development kit.

I’m working on that right now but I’m not hopeful of finding anything. I don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer on whether the starbrat is smiling or not, because I think the expression would’ve been controlled by facefx, one of the tools in the Unreal engine, and facefx data can’t be extracted from the game.

[BatmanTurian]

FFZero wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

hey guys, i don't know if any of you have seen this but I was looking for ME images and I found this curious image.

It seems someone put Miranda in the place of the Catalyst, gave her its animation and " glow ", and it shows the face the Catalyst makes after Shep chooses Control. Again, pardon me if you guys have seen this already.



EDIT: I could be wrong. Not sure.

Okay sorrys chaps but, as much as it pains me to do this, I’m going to have to debunk this new piece of evidence.

1). As far as I know, there is no way to replace models in the game, and that picture looks like it’s from ME2. The lighting isn’t as soft as ME3 and the hair model and textures look a lot more...solid. The hair models/textures may still look a bit stiff in ME3 but they’re a lot more natural than ME2.

2.) Any effect can be applied to any model because those effects are basically materials, textures that have been combined to create a certain appearance or effect. There is no way to extract materials from the game itself, just the textures. You have to remake the materials yourself in either the UDK or a 3D program.

Basically if this was a picture of Miranda replacing the Starbrat she would look exactly the same, all transparent and glowing.

The only way to even attempt to find out if the starbrat is smiling or showing any expression in that scene is to find the anim-set linked to him and apply it to his model in something like the unreal development kit.

I’m working on that right now but I’m not hopeful of finding anything. I don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer on whether the starbrat is smiling or not, because I think the expression would’ve been controlled by facefx, one of the tools in the Unreal engine, and facefx data can’t be extracted from the game.

Fair enough. Thanks for your input. Once again, I'd rather be refuted and wrong than be accepted and still wrong. We're on a quest for truth here, after all.

[BatmanTurian]

just got this in a PM last night after I left.

Blitzaxt
01:19 AM 2012-07-08
Hey, just wanted to point out that while your Miranda picture is interesting, in the forum where you found it it says it was posted on May 28 2011, so... there was no Catalyst back then, good times... BUT it also means that picture cant be of ME3.


So there ya go. Sorry to have wasted your time and gotten your hopes up.

[MaximizedAction]

FFZero wrote...

Okay sorrys chaps but, as much as it pains me to do this, I’m going to have to debunk this new piece of evidence.

1). As far as I know, there is no way to replace models in the game, and that picture looks like it’s from ME2. The lighting isn’t as soft as ME3 and the hair model and textures look a lot more...solid. The hair models/textures may still look a bit stiff in ME3 but they’re a lot more natural than ME2.

2.) Any effect can be applied to any model because those effects are basically materials, textures that have been combined to create a certain appearance or effect. There is no way to extract materials from the game itself, just the textures. You have to remake the materials yourself in either the UDK or a 3D program.

Basically if this was a picture of Miranda replacing the Starbrat she would look exactly the same, all transparent and glowing.

The only way to even attempt to find out if the starbrat is smiling or showing any expression in that scene is to find the anim-set linked to him and apply it to his model in something like the unreal development kit.

I’m working on that right now but I’m not hopeful of finding anything. I don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer on whether the starbrat is smiling or not, because I think the expression would’ve been controlled by facefx, one of the tools in the Unreal engine, and facefx data can’t be extracted from the game.

@1) There exists this gag where RapefaceShep is replaced by ME2's main characters who all have that same facial expression, in the exact same scene. So it's probably also possible in ME3

EDIT: BatmanTurian debunked it. But it still should be possible to swap character models.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 juillet 2012 - 04:22 .

[FFZero]

MaximizedAction wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Okay sorrys chaps but, as much as it pains me to do this, I’m going to have to debunk this new piece of evidence.

1). As far as I know, there is no way to replace models in the game, and that picture looks like it’s from ME2. The lighting isn’t as soft as ME3 and the hair model and textures look a lot more...solid. The hair models/textures may still look a bit stiff in ME3 but they’re a lot more natural than ME2.

2.) Any effect can be applied to any model because those effects are basically materials, textures that have been combined to create a certain appearance or effect. There is no way to extract materials from the game itself, just the textures. You have to remake the materials yourself in either the UDK or a 3D program.

Basically if this was a picture of Miranda replacing the Starbrat she would look exactly the same, all transparent and glowing.

The only way to even attempt to find out if the starbrat is smiling or showing any expression in that scene is to find the anim-set linked to him and apply it to his model in something like the unreal development kit.

I’m working on that right now but I’m not hopeful of finding anything. I don’t think we’ll ever get a definitive answer on whether the starbrat is smiling or not, because I think the expression would’ve been controlled by facefx, one of the tools in the Unreal engine, and facefx data can’t be extracted from the game.

@1) There exists this gag where RapefaceShep is replaced by ME2's main characters who all have that same facial expression, in the exact same scene. So it's probably also possible in ME3

EDIT: BatmanTurian debunked it. But it still should be possible to swap character models.

Yes, but that gag was created by modding Shepard. Starbrat is an NPC, other than texture mod's I don’t think it’s possible to mod NPC characters.

[MaximizedAction]

FFZero wrote...

Yes, but that gag was created by modding Shepard. Starbrat is an NPC, other than texture mod's I don’t think it’s possible to mod NPC characters.

Good point! Hm, ah well, one could hope. But one should also check their sources.

[Big Bad]

Hi folks, how goes it?

I've been away for a few days. Did I miss anything important?

[BatmanTurian]

MaximizedAction wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Yes, but that gag was created by modding Shepard. Starbrat is an NPC, other than texture mod's I don’t think it’s possible to mod NPC characters.

Good point! Hm, ah well, one could hope. But one should also check their sources.

I'll be sure to check mine more closely in the future. <_<

[D.Sharrah]

Andromidius wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Whew, and here I thought I was going to be arguing against everyone else in the thread! Glad to see I'm not alone!

And Maximized, yes, exactly! That's MY Shepard that told Star Jar where he could stuff it! That's MY Shepard that stood up for the themes present throughout the series! And, on top of that, he gave an Epic Shepard Speech! How can that be bad?

I like Refuse because of the speech.

I don't like it because it leads to nothing.  Its all promise, no payoff.

Yet.

(Andromidius on Origin, add me if you're bored)

To me the reject ending is the one that has the most potential to benefit from DLC...and that alone is intriguing to me - since I am an ME addict, anything that feeds my addiction is wanted...

And I wonder if there is some balance being applied to the endings...I know that with the original endings I was disappointed that I felt there were two choices for reaper wins (control and synthesis) and only the one for "we" win (destroy).  With the EC, I now feel that there is some better balance...2 v 2.  With both "sides" getting different measures of victory...

Control - Reaper's win, Shep indoctrinated, cycle continues
Synthesis - Reaper's win, Reaper's "pinnacle of evolution" reached, cycle stops
Destroy - Reaper's lose, Tech wiped out, cycle stops
Reject - Reaper's lose (now this is based on my assumption that CoolioThane is on to something w/the DLC leading to possible conventional victory), Tech survies, cycle stops

That's at least how I see it...

Edit:  The way I see it...the reject ending is perhaps the only way that they can give us the "rainbows and ponies" happy ending that some want...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 08 juillet 2012 - 04:48 .

[D.Sharrah]

Days away from SDCC...can't wait...hope we get some juicy, speculative material to discuss!

[D.Sharrah]

I hope that I didn't scare everyone away?!?

[Priss Blackburne]

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

[SubAstris]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

[Priss Blackburne]

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

I've thought about it for a long time and I keep coming to the conclusion that I can't take that chance. If there is any doubt that he is lying I can't risk all life because of it. Hell I just argued with TIM about it a few mins ago before.

But I should probably keep these kind of arguments out of the IT thread. Since there are a very wildy debated one sorry.

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:12 .

[D.Sharrah]

Just to let everyone know I just created a group for fans of Liara as the primary LI...feel free to check it out!

[SubAstris]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

I've thought about it for a long time and I keep coming to the conclusion that I can't take that chance. If there is any doubt that he is lying I can't risk all life because of it. Hell I just argued with TIM about it a few mins ago before.

There is technically doubt concerning any character in the ME series, why you should single out the Catalyst for no reason is beyond me

[Andromidius]

Yeah, it boggles my mind how people can trust the Catalyst for seemingly no reason at all. Its more dishonest then a used car salesman, and lies more then a politician during an election.

[BatmanTurian]

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

Evil people sometimes don't believe they're evil. They think they're doing good. In fact, the best, most complex, and real villians in stories absolutely believe they are doing the right thing and the hero is the one standing in the way and is the villian.

We can't assume he is good just because he believes he has good intentions. After all, the road to Hell is paved with them.

And that's not even counting the fact that he turned on his own creators and forcibly turned them into Reapers. That's just wrong in and of itself, no matter how you look at it. It never ceases to amaze me that people go to such great lengths to legitimize and defend the Starkid and the Reapers' actions. Reaper apologists sound like indoctrinated agents.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:14 .

[D.Sharrah]

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

[TJBartlemus]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

Hey guys!! Miss anything yesterday? 

Yeah it absolutely makes no sense for people to trust the leader of the Reapers. He is the leader of the main enemy!! It's like not trusting the Empire but trusting the Emperor in Star Wars. NO! The Emperor is the one trying to convince you to join!! Come on! One of the biggest sci fi series in the last century and no one notices the parallel in story?? Edit - It's even proven that Casey Hudson when making the ME series that he got inspiration from the big sci fi series from when he was a child like Star Wars and Star Trek.

@Batman I think that picture was taken when she was performing a biotic attack. (I know it was proven false)

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:17 .

[BatmanTurian]

TJBartlemus wrote...

@Batman I think that picture was taken when she was performing a biotic attack. (I know it was proven false)

Yeah, this is why we comb through and peer review what we feel is evidence. It's scientific in that way and I have no problem with being proven wrong if I have faulty evidence.

[Priss Blackburne]

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

I've thought about it for a long time and I keep coming to the conclusion that I can't take that chance. If there is any doubt that he is lying I can't risk all life because of it. Hell I just argued with TIM about it a few mins ago before.

There is technically doubt concerning any character in the ME series, why you should single out the Catalyst for no reason is beyond me

do you debate just to debate?

why am I singling out the catalyst? the controler of the reapers? the one gigantic choice that will decide the fate of the entire galaxy? Why would I be concerned if I doubted him or not?...really?

I'm getting too antagonistic again time for some fresh air

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:24 .

[SubAstris]

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

Evil people sometimes don't believe they're evil. They think they're doing good. In fact, the best, most complex, and real villians in stories absolutely believe they are doing the right thing and the hero is the one standing in the way and is the villian.

We can't assume he is good just because he believes he has good intentions. After all, the road to Hell is paved with them.

And that's not even counting the fact that he turned on his own creators and forcibly turned them into Reapers. That's just wrong in and of itself, no matter how you look at it. It never ceases to amaze me that people go to such great lengths to legitimize and defend the Starkid and the Reapers' actions. Reaper apologists sound like indoctrinated agents.

I realise, a bit like Saren, right?

I am not an apologist for anyone, I don't really like the Catalyst as a character, but that doesn't mean he is deceptive/manipulative and blatant lies can be said about it.