55528 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Sharrah]

Reposting for the new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Just to let everyone know I just created a group for fans of Liara as the primary LI...feel free to check it out!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

That is quickly done. Lets see:

Control: Supported and advertised by TIM. TIM turned out to be Indoctrinated by the Reapers, also advertised by a Prothean splinter group...who were Indoctrinated. Paralels between controlling and Indoctrination done by own squad on Heretic Geth mission in ME2.

Synthesis: Supported and advertised by Saren. Saren turned out to be Indoctrinated and died either by own hands or Shepards. Also advertised by the Reapers themselves who claim to be the pinacle of evolution, but same reapers also claim that organics are "insignificant" and "dust to the cosmic" winds compared to them and claim the only possible "ascension" and "perfection" is to be made into a Reaper.

Destroy: Advertised by just about eery single one of Shepards close crew, squad and friends as the only sure solution to the Reapers. Such people include members of almost every species in the known galaxy. Only sure solution to tReaper threat as well as the other solutions leave the Reapers alive leaving open the possibility of the cycle resuming.

Id say the Catalyst credibility is just about zero based upon this alone.

[D.Sharrah]

SubAstris wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

Evil people sometimes don't believe they're evil. They think they're doing good. In fact, the best, most complex, and real villians in stories absolutely believe they are doing the right thing and the hero is the one standing in the way and is the villian.

We can't assume he is good just because he believes he has good intentions. After all, the road to Hell is paved with them.

And that's not even counting the fact that he turned on his own creators and forcibly turned them into Reapers. That's just wrong in and of itself, no matter how you look at it. It never ceases to amaze me that people go to such great lengths to legitimize and defend the Starkid and the Reapers' actions. Reaper apologists sound like indoctrinated agents.

I realise, a bit like Saren, right?

I am not an apologist for anyone, I don't really like the Catalyst as a character, but that doesn't mean he is deceptive/manipulative and blatant lies can be said about it.

To the bolded...but he is the leader of the Reapers.  A force that everything we have been taught about so far in the series is both deceptive and manipulative...are you asking us to believe that the leader of this force does not have the same characteristic that this force has?

[SubAstris]

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

[TJBartlemus]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting for the new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Just to let everyone know I just created a group for fans of Liara as the primary LI...feel free to check it out!

Dude not to ruin your parade, but there are already numerous groups for Liara. And Tali. And Ashely. And every other LI. And MP groups. And theory groups. It's really hard to make an original group. I would know. 

Edit - But if you want people to join then just give a link. I would join but I'm more for Ashely.

Modifié par TJBartlemus, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:48 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

I realise, a bit like Saren, right?

I am not an apologist for anyone, I don't really like the Catalyst as a character, but that doesn't mean he is deceptive/manipulative and blatant lies can be said about it.

The catalyst heavily implies Shepard dies in Destroy when we know that is not always the case. Idd even go as far as to say he is saying it outright ("Even you are part synthetic" right after he spoke of how synthetics would be destroyed, there is very little you can make of this sentence beyond "you are gonna die as well.") meaning he at best was deceptive in what would happen to Shepard and at worst he was flat out lying.

[SubAstris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

That is quickly done. Lets see:

Control: Supported and advertised by TIM. TIM turned out to be Indoctrinated by the Reapers, also advertised by a Prothean splinter group...who were Indoctrinated. Paralels between controlling and Indoctrination done by own squad on Heretic Geth mission in ME2.

Synthesis: Supported and advertised by Saren. Saren turned out to be Indoctrinated and died either by own hands or Shepards. Also advertised by the Reapers themselves who claim to be the pinacle of evolution, but same reapers also claim that organics are "insignificant" and "dust to the cosmic" winds compared to them and claim the only possible "ascension" and "perfection" is to be made into a Reaper.

Destroy: Advertised by just about eery single one of Shepards close crew, squad and friends as the only sure solution to the Reapers. Such people include members of almost every species in the known galaxy. Only sure solution to tReaper threat as well as the other solutions leave the Reapers alive leaving open the possibility of the cycle resuming.

Id say the Catalyst credibility is just about zero based upon this alone.

You're forgetting the fact that the Catalyst's appearance changes everything, it's called a twist

[D.Sharrah]

SubAstris wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

Please explain this in more detail...because I just don't see it.

[TJBartlemus]

Bump* 

TJBartlemus wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

Hey guys!! Miss anything yesterday? 

Yeah it absolutely makes no sense for people to trust the leader of the Reapers. He is the leader of the main enemy!! It's like not trusting the Empire but trusting the Emperor in Star Wars. NO! The Emperor is the one trying to convince you to join!! Come on! One of the biggest sci fi series in the last century and no one notices the parallel in story?? Edit - It's even proven that Casey Hudson when making the ME series that he got inspiration from the big sci fi series from when he was a child like Star Wars and Star Trek.

@Batman I think that picture was taken when she was performing a biotic attack. (I know it was proven false)

[SubAstris]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I realise, a bit like Saren, right?

I am not an apologist for anyone, I don't really like the Catalyst as a character, but that doesn't mean he is deceptive/manipulative and blatant lies can be said about it.

The catalyst heavily implies Shepard dies in Destroy when we know that is not always the case. Idd even go as far as to say he is saying it outright ("Even you are part synthetic" right after he spoke of how synthetics would be destroyed, there is very little you can make of this sentence beyond "you are gonna die as well.") meaning he at best was deceptive in what would happen to Shepard and at worst he was flat out lying.

Or it could mean that life would be worse, but not impossible, without synthetic, akin to someone saying that there would be no electricity in your life.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

If by "align with what we allready know" refers to the fact that Synthesis and Control have only been advertised by Indoctrinated persons (across multiple cycles no less) and Shepard survives despite what the Catalyst implied in Destroy, then yes we can tottaly "trust" him.

[D.Sharrah]

TJBartlemus wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting for the new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Just to let everyone know I just created a group for fans of Liara as the primary LI...feel free to check it out!

Dude not to ruin your parade, but there are already numerous groups for Liara. And Tali. And Ashely. And every other LI. And MP groups. And theory groups. It's really hard to make an original group. I would know. 

Oh well...then perhaps that one corner of the forum, will be where Liara is truly only mine!

[SubAstris]

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

Please explain this in more detail...because I just don't see it.

For example, Catalyst says A will happen not B, B happens

[TJBartlemus]

D.Sharrah wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting for the new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Just to let everyone know I just created a group for fans of Liara as the primary LI...feel free to check it out!

Dude not to ruin your parade, but there are already numerous groups for Liara. And Tali. And Ashely. And every other LI. And MP groups. And theory groups. It's really hard to make an original group. I would know. 

Oh well...then perhaps that one corner of the forum, will be where Liara is truly only mine!

If you want people to join then just give a link. I would join but I'm more in favor for Ashely. 

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

You're forgetting the fact that the Catalyst's appearance changes everything, it's called a twist

Could you be consistent?

You say we need to look at prior knowledge and determine from taht if we can trust the Catalyst and then turn 180 degrees and essentially tell us we should throw everything we know out the window because its a twist.

[HellishFiend]

*busts out his clipboard*

Has motives of a Reaper? Check.
Has philosophies of a Reaper? Check.
Emotionally manipulative like a Reaper? Check.
Sounds like a Reaper? Check. 
Admits he's a Reaper? Check. 

Ah yes, the "Catalyst's credibility".   We have dismissed that claim.

[D.Sharrah]

SubAstris wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

Please explain this in more detail...because I just don't see it.

For example, Catalyst says A will happen not B, B happens

How is this explaining your statement?  If anything that proves he is deceptive!  Look at the bolded - if you were trying to support your statement, it should be "...says A will happen not B, and A happens".  Are you confusing yourself?!

[D.Sharrah]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Snip...

Edit - But if you want people to join then just give a link. I would join but I'm more for Ashely.

http://social.bioware.com/group/7584/

Ok...I'll share.

Edit:  @TJBartlemus - Ashley is probably my second favorite...

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:57 .

[D.Sharrah]

HellishFiend wrote...

*busts out his clipboard*

Has motives of a Reaper? Check.
Has philosophies of a Reaper? Check.
Emotionally manipulative like a Reaper? Check.
Sounds like a Reaper? Check. 
Admits he's a Reaper? Check. 

Ah yes, the "Catalyst's credibility".   We have dismissed that claim.

This.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

SubAstris wrote...

Or it could mean that life would be worse, but not impossible, without synthetic, akin to someone saying that there would be no electricity in your life.

Considering that Shepard is heavily rebuild with synthetics among other things with his spinal column beeing held together with synthetic parts as shown in ME2 and even more synethtic parts must be present in Shepards arms and body as he exhibits supernatiral strength and toughness (the M-300 Claymore Shotgun breaks a mans arm with the recoil yet Shepard can use it and he goes toe to toe with a Yagh in hand to hand) removing the synthetics from Shepard would with little doubt kill him.

[D.Sharrah]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Or it could mean that life would be worse, but not impossible, without synthetic, akin to someone saying that there would be no electricity in your life.

Considering that Shepard is heavily rebuild with synthetics among other things with his spinal column beeing held together with synthetic parts as shown in ME2 and even more synethtic parts must be present in Shepards arms and body as he exhibits supernatiral strength and toughness (the M-300 Claymore Shotgun breaks a mans arm with the recoil yet Shepard can use it and he goes toe to toe with a Yagh in hand to hand) removing the synthetics from Shepard would with little doubt kill him.

He is like the 6 million dollar man..."We can rebuild him..."

http://www.youtube.c...Ls0V8T5AA#t=42s

[boeloe]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Yeah it absolutely makes no sense for people to trust the leader of the Reapers. He is the leader of the main enemy!! It's like not trusting the Empire but trusting the Emperor in Star Wars. NO! The Emperor is the one trying to convince you to join!! Come on! One of the biggest sci fi series in the last century and no one notices the parallel in story?? Edit - It's even proven that Casey Hudson when making the ME series that he got inspiration from the big sci fi series from when he was a child like Star Wars and Star Trek.

I know, everytime I hear the catalyst say "so be it" I silently whisper "jedi" in the emperor's voice. I can't see refusal as anything else but a big fat giant nod to Return of the Jedi.

[D.Sharrah]

boeloe wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Yeah it absolutely makes no sense for people to trust the leader of the Reapers. He is the leader of the main enemy!! It's like not trusting the Empire but trusting the Emperor in Star Wars. NO! The Emperor is the one trying to convince you to join!! Come on! One of the biggest sci fi series in the last century and no one notices the parallel in story?? Edit - It's even proven that Casey Hudson when making the ME series that he got inspiration from the big sci fi series from when he was a child like Star Wars and Star Trek.

I know, everytime I hear the catalyst say "so be it" I silently whisper "jedi" in the emperor's voice. I can't see refusal as anything else but a big fat giant nod to Return of the Jedi.

I just wonder why after all the hemming and hawing about not "changing" the endings...why they did?  And because they did, if there is more in store for that choice (like CoolioThane's idea about DLC feeding into a conventional victory from a couple pages ago)...

[Fingertrip]

That Miranda picture is for **** sake, the scene when she blasts her father through the window. She goes biotic god on his ass, and she then does a sigh- afterwards.

Please people. ;p

[Vaya]

SubAstris wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

I'm just getting caught up in all these posts popping about about why I should trust the Embodiment of the reapers Catalyst kid. I just find it strange that people can throw out everything previous and trust this little rogue AI.

It's not really about trust/distrust. People just need to analyse what he actually says and whether we know what he says is true or not given prior knowledge, rather than just to assume him to be evil because he is associated with the Reapers.

The problem with that is part of your analysis of a statement is whether or not you trust the source.  I have never personally met anyone from the Taliban...but if I did, would you say that I was being unfair if I didn't necessarily trust every word they said?  That's w/o placing a label on whether or not the individual is "good" or "evil"...I have had friends that are really "good" people - but you couldn't trust what they say...if that makes sense.

When I mean "trust" I mean "his words seem to be align with what we already know and don't contradict anything that happens afterwards"

And the basis for taking the catalyst at it's word is that you can't prove that it's not telling the truth. So it comes down to a matter of trust or distrust and it has given us every reason throughout the course of the games to distrust anything to do with reapers. They rely on indoctrination and manipulation.

For some reason trusting the reapers and the catalyst suddenly reminded me of this