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jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
i actually did earlier today, and fantastic job btw, but i was saying that if those three options were real, and the ending was to be taken literally, that it doesnt make moral sense to include any other optionsHellishFiend wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
another thought, if the endings were to be taken literally, as the real, final ending, why wouldnt anybody choose synthesis? you would honestly have to be a horrible person to not have that be your number one choice. its an instant utopia, jump into a beam and BOOM instant perfection. the only reason anybody would consider control is if they had a god complex, and besides, the reapers would also protect all life in the synthesis endings right? i mean, the cycle stopped, the reapers are going to have to serve a purpose if theyre still there.
the star child outlines destroy as the worst choice, hands down. you commit genocide on a peaceful people, and everything is normal. or, chose synthesis and everything is perfect. period.
it doesnt make any sense, why bioware would think these are "morally ambiguous" decisions
Destroy, as presented, is in harmony with the themes of the Mass Effect trilogy. The game goes out of it's way to show that both Organics and Synthetics are more than willing to sacrifice themselves for what they believe in, and would gladly die if it meant the defeat of the Reapers.
Have you seen Choose Wisely with the new annotations that I added? If not, check it out. It does a better job of explaining.
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
Destroy is the personification of that. Destroy is ignoring everything the Catalyst tells you ("Focus on the mission." - Shepard) and going straight for the goal, don't stop and consider what he tells you, which is a major factor in Control, since you must believe he is correct that you will be able to Control the Reapers.
Destroy is an option offered by the Catalyst. By it's very definition you can't ignore the Catalyst by choosing it, as he already offered it to you, no matter what the implications or the connotation given is. It is his initiative, just like Synth and Control.
Refuse is the only one that the player, actively, has to find by really wanting it.
Before having seen Refuse, I'd have agreed with you. Now...things are a bit different-- even though we get the breath scene only with Destroy.
I disagree, sir. I postulate that the Catalyst offers you not a set of actions to choose from, but rather a set of moralistic guidelines and principles to choose from. Picking Destroy is sticking with the morals and principles that have been thematically presented as harmonious with the prosperity of organics and their synthetic children, while Control/Synth are.....not. Picking refuse is simply refusing to side with any of the presented principles. And that is no way to continue the story.
Modifié par MaximizedAction, 08 juillet 2012 - 10:34 .
The OP in this thread sums up perfectly why Synthesis is a really bad choice...jgibson14352 wrote...
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
Either.Ardrey wrote...
ouch. Were you using Paint Weights or Set Weights by Vertex?niravital wrote...
So a 2-hour tedious skinning work just gone through the window.
In times like this I hate Maya.
I feel like blasting some reapers.
origin ID "niravital" if anyone wanna join.
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
MaximizedAction wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
Destroy is the personification of that. Destroy is ignoring everything the Catalyst tells you ("Focus on the mission." - Shepard) and going straight for the goal, don't stop and consider what he tells you, which is a major factor in Control, since you must believe he is correct that you will be able to Control the Reapers.
Destroy is an option offered by the Catalyst. By it's very definition you can't ignore the Catalyst by choosing it, as he already offered it to you, no matter what the implications or the connotation given is. It is his initiative, just like Synth and Control.
Refuse is the only one that the player, actively, has to find by really wanting it.
Before having seen Refuse, I'd have agreed with you. Now...things are a bit different
I disagree, sir. I postulate that the Catalyst offers you not a set of actions to choose from, but rather a set of moralistic guidelines and principles to choose from. Picking Destroy is sticking with the morals and principles that have been thematically presented as harmonious with the prosperity of organics and their synthetic children, while Control/Synth are.....not. Picking refuse is simply refusing to side with any of the presented principles. And that is no way to continue the story.
Yeah, that's also why I chose Destroy on my first playthrough (that's not really how it happened, it was too late to morally judge properly:D). And I still agree with you. Destroy is what we have been persuing from the very start, and before the EC this all has already been discussed to death.
The only 'problem' now is, that this new Refuse came along and is...odd. If only it had a breath scene in it, that would've been perfect. But unfortunately it doesn't. And if I chose to see Refuse like you, Arian and others do, I'd have an easier time, but sadly, Bioware chose to mess with my Zen:
right there where I thought I had a clear standing point on the endings, BAM another equally tempting choice. No moral highground for me, anymore.
yes, its a horrible choice if you look into it and apply the themes of the games to it, i never said it wasnt and i agree with that post, especially his point about javik throwing himself out an airlock.Riot86 wrote...
The OP in this thread sums up perfectly why Synthesis is a really bad choice...jgibson14352 wrote...
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
Riot86 wrote...
The OP in this thread sums up perfectly why Synthesis is a really bad choice...jgibson14352 wrote...
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
Arian Dynas wrote...
Synthesis is thinking you can come to some kind of agreement and basically appease them, but you mean nothing to them, so you can't.
You can't negotiate peace if you have no bargaining position.
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes, its a horrible choice if you look into it and apply the themes of the games to it, i never said it wasnt and i agree with that post, especially his point about javik throwing himself out an airlock.Riot86 wrote...
The OP in this thread sums up perfectly why Synthesis is a really bad choice...jgibson14352 wrote...
yes i agree with that, but what im saying is that IF the endings were to be taken literally, and i mean the whole nine yards on that, including trusting the catalyst, theres no moral ambiguity to any of those choices.Andromidius wrote...
jgibson14352 wrote...
yes but its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination. they may scream and cry against it, but its for their own good to prevent any future suffering. from the cutscenes, everybody was happpy with synthesis, didnt look like anybody felt anything.
Its the same as giving a toddler a vaccination, but its administered by a convicted child molester.
Doesn't matter if nothing bad happened, the fact you trusted someone who had every reason to not be trusted is very bad.
what nobody seems to understand though is that i meant a literal, face-value, what the catalyst says and what the slideshows show point of view.
i think destroy is the right option, and if you look into the themes and the meaning, i think it should be the only option. but if you trust the catalyst and think that shepard wasnt indoctrinated, and ignore the themes of the ME series, synthesis makes the most sense
jgibson14352 wrote...
i think destroy is the right option, and if you look into the themes and the meaning, i think it should be the only option. but if you trust the catalyst and think that shepard wasnt indoctrinated, and ignore the themes of the ME series, synthesis makes the most sense
Dwailing wrote...
Alright, I read something interesting earlier. Apparently, Miracle of Sound's new song Crucible has a Reaper horn in it. Are Miracle of Sound and BioWare in any way connected, at least for his Mass Effect pieces?
TJBartlemus wrote...
Dwailing wrote...
Alright, I read something interesting earlier. Apparently, Miracle of Sound's new song Crucible has a Reaper horn in it. Are Miracle of Sound and BioWare in any way connected, at least for his Mass Effect pieces?
Well I remember listening to the radio, it was rock or alternative, and there was a song that I could of sworn had a reaper horn or very loud bass. Now I really want to find that song name ...
Arian Dynas wrote...
And even then that's not saying much.
But one way or another, I just realized the reason Bioware wants people to pick Synthesis.
It's so they can pump up their numbers of indoctrinated, plenty of people will take them at their word.
I have seen the future and I'm scared. 
Modifié par marcelo_sdk, 08 juillet 2012 - 11:11 .
lol, so true. I first started with Paint weights, but there's always that one buried vertex that ends up weighted incorrectly, so now I used weight by vertex for either all my weighting, or for cleaning up misbehaving vertices after paint weight. The only drawback for weight by vertex is that is takes so much more time, especially with modern game characters.niravital wrote...
Either.Ardrey wrote...
ouch. Were you using Paint Weights or Set Weights by Vertex?niravital wrote...
So a 2-hour tedious skinning work just gone through the window.
In times like this I hate Maya.
I feel like blasting some reapers.
origin ID "niravital" if anyone wanna join.
Paint wheights.... skinning is death
Modifié par Either.Ardrey, 08 juillet 2012 - 11:14 .
Evolution is a force that should not be forced. And to change someone without their will is morally corupt. Administering a vaccination is not the same as transforming someone into roboman, as a vaccine is to prevent a legitimate illness, not to expidite evolution and create a perversion of nature.jgibson14352 wrote...
another thought, if the endings were to be taken literally, as the real, final ending, why wouldnt anybody choose synthesis? you would honestly have to be a horrible person to not have that be your number one choice. its an instant utopia, jump into a beam and BOOM instant perfection. the only reason anybody would consider control is if they had a god complex, and besides, the reapers would also protect all life in the synthesis endings right? i mean, the cycle stopped, the reapers are going to have to serve a purpose if theyre still there.
the star child outlines destroy as the worst choice, hands down. you commit genocide on a peaceful people, and everything is normal. or, chose synthesis and everything is perfect. period.
it doesnt make any sense, why bioware would think these are "morally ambiguous" decisions
marcelo_sdk wrote...
Hey guys, do u think BW will launch a DLC allowing us to win by conventional means? I saw that a lot of people, as myself, wanted from the beggining to do that, and having that option in EC was really great. But a lot, too, are very angry cause, even if u have a very high EMS, our cycle is defeated.
zigamortis wrote...
Evolution is a force that should not be forced. And to change someone without their will is morally corupt. Administering a vaccination is not the same as transforming someone into roboman, as a vaccine is to prevent a legitimate illness, not to expidite evolution and create a perversion of nature.
byne wrote...
zigamortis wrote...
Evolution is a force that should not be forced. And to change someone without their will is morally corupt. Administering a vaccination is not the same as transforming someone into roboman, as a vaccine is to prevent a legitimate illness, not to expidite evolution and create a perversion of nature.
The worst part is, the godchild himself literally tells you that. He says past attempts at synthesis have failed because it cannot be forced, then he tells you to go ahead and force it, and we're supposed to believe it worked out just fine?
Hmm, i should have a random picture lying around that will illustrate my response to the godchild....
Ah, here we go!
Modifié par HellishFiend, 08 juillet 2012 - 11:49 .
Arian Dynas wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
MaximizedAction wrote...
Arian Dynas wrote...
Destroy is the personification of that. Destroy is ignoring everything the Catalyst tells you ("Focus on the mission." - Shepard) and going straight for the goal, don't stop and consider what he tells you, which is a major factor in Control, since you must believe he is correct that you will be able to Control the Reapers.
Destroy is an option offered by the Catalyst. By it's very definition you can't ignore the Catalyst by choosing it, as he already offered it to you, no matter what the implications or the connotation given is. It is his initiative, just like Synth and Control.
Refuse is the only one that the player, actively, has to find by really wanting it.
Before having seen Refuse, I'd have agreed with you. Now...things are a bit different
I disagree, sir. I postulate that the Catalyst offers you not a set of actions to choose from, but rather a set of moralistic guidelines and principles to choose from. Picking Destroy is sticking with the morals and principles that have been thematically presented as harmonious with the prosperity of organics and their synthetic children, while Control/Synth are.....not. Picking refuse is simply refusing to side with any of the presented principles. And that is no way to continue the story.
Yeah, that's also why I chose Destroy on my first playthrough (that's not really how it happened, it was too late to morally judge properly:D). And I still agree with you. Destroy is what we have been persuing from the very start, and before the EC this all has already been discussed to death.
The only 'problem' now is, that this new Refuse came along and is...odd. If only it had a breath scene in it, that would've been perfect. But unfortunately it doesn't. And if I chose to see Refuse like you, Arian and others do, I'd have an easier time, but sadly, Bioware chose to mess with my Zen:
right there where I thought I had a clear standing point on the endings, BAM another equally tempting choice. No moral highground for me, anymore.
It's tempting, It's meant to be. All of the choices, bar Destroy are tempting.
Destroy is the only one that seems truly realistic as a method to victory, Refuse is thinking you can win conventionally.
You can't.
Control is thinking you can adopt TIM's "The Ends Justify The Means" Philosophy to win and use Reaper tech against them.
You can't.
Synthesis is thinking you can come to some kind of agreement and basically appease them, but you mean nothing to them, so you can't.
You can't negotiate peace if you have no bargaining position.
Modifié par Dwailing, 08 juillet 2012 - 11:54 .
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