55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Priss Blackburne]

HellishFiend wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

maybe if your being indoctrinated the choices are actually fliped in the dialogue wheel like in the colors for the choices at the ending?

That's what I'm getting at, yes. It actually makes a lot of sense, since the colors of the decision chamber choice are actually flipped, it's reasonable to conclude that the same thing is being done as early as Cronos station, especially given the actual nature of the responses themselves. Blindly go with "paragon" each time, and you're digging yourself into a deeper hole. 

hmm there are dialogue options like this through the entire game..be interesting if they are recorded as a state of your weakness to Indoctrination like you think. At least I think I remember a few before Cronos station.

[estebanus]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...


I am a born American, part German and living in Germany. WHAT U GONNA DO NOW?

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Damn, you're almost like me, Lex0r!

I lived in Ramstein-Miesenbach for 3 years. Does that count?

You need to be multi-national! 

Although, I'm kinda curious... Where do you actually live?

Charleston, SC

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

BTW, nothing against you Byne, I certain that Charleston is a nice place, it's just that, you know, life can suck.  

 

***holes. The same thing happened to my brother a few months ago. Although the guy who did it was at least caught.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Soooo, because I chose a bunch of the Paragon dialogue options, that means that I'm screwed?   Well then, I guess that's ONE way to satisfy all those Renegades out there who complain that Paragon decisions never have ANY negative repercussions.  And it would certainly do a good job at making that ME3 Renegade playthrough seem like more than just a long string of puppy kicking incidents. 

Thats just the thing, it's not paragon dialog options anymore at that point. It's weak willed dialog options. If you replay the end sequence with that in mind, you'll see what I mean. 

Oh FRAK!  BioWare really IS a company filled with frakking GENIUSES isn't it?

Yeah, it was a fairly profound moment when Turbo helped me come to that conclusion. And just like IT in general, after you realize it, you wonder why you never noticed it before. Next time you play through the endgame sequence, pay attention to Shep's responses based on whether you pick the top or bottom choice, and its clear it's all about his willpower at that point, rather than nice or evil. 

[byne]

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You need to be multi-national! 

Although, I'm kinda curious... Where do you actually live?

Charleston, SC

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

BTW, nothing against you Byne, I certain that Charleston is a nice place, it's just that, you know, life can suck.  

Yeah, Charleston is pretty nice, but unfortunately there are dicks in every city. <_<

[HellishFiend]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

maybe if your being indoctrinated the choices are actually fliped in the dialogue wheel like in the colors for the choices at the ending?

That's what I'm getting at, yes. It actually makes a lot of sense, since the colors of the decision chamber choice are actually flipped, it's reasonable to conclude that the same thing is being done as early as Cronos station, especially given the actual nature of the responses themselves. Blindly go with "paragon" each time, and you're digging yourself into a deeper hole. 

hmm there are dialogue options like this through the entire game..be interesting if they are recorded as a state of your weakness to Indoctrination like you think. At least I think I remember a few before Cronos station.

Yeah, there are more throughout the game, and most, if not all of them, are on the Normandy. Where the infrasound happens to be. Hmm....

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You need to be multi-national! 

Although, I'm kinda curious... Where do you actually live?

Charleston, SC

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

BTW, nothing against you Byne, I certain that Charleston is a nice place, it's just that, you know, life can suck.  

Yeah, Charleston is pretty nice, but unfortunately there are dicks in every city. <_<

I've never been to South Carolina. I may go there the next time I visit the USA, though. 

[Priss Blackburne]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Soooo, because I chose a bunch of the Paragon dialogue options, that means that I'm screwed?   Well then, I guess that's ONE way to satisfy all those Renegades out there who complain that Paragon decisions never have ANY negative repercussions.  And it would certainly do a good job at making that ME3 Renegade playthrough seem like more than just a long string of puppy kicking incidents. 

Thats just the thing, it's not paragon dialog options anymore at that point. It's weak willed dialog options. If you replay the end sequence with that in mind, you'll see what I mean. 

Oh FRAK!  BioWare really IS a company filled with frakking GENIUSES isn't it?

Yeah, it was a fairly profound moment when Turbo helped me come to that conclusion. And just like IT in general, after you realize it, you wonder why you never noticed it before. Next time you play through the endgame sequence, pay attention to Shep's responses based on whether you pick the top or bottom choice, and its clear it's all about his willpower at that point, rather than nice or evil. 

I remember choosing it and hearing Shepard making those comments and thinking...huh...that's kinda odd...but then just thinking nothing of it.

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

maybe if your being indoctrinated the choices are actually fliped in the dialogue wheel like in the colors for the choices at the ending?

That's what I'm getting at, yes. It actually makes a lot of sense, since the colors of the decision chamber choice are actually flipped, it's reasonable to conclude that the same thing is being done as early as Cronos station, especially given the actual nature of the responses themselves. Blindly go with "paragon" each time, and you're digging yourself into a deeper hole. 

hmm there are dialogue options like this through the entire game..be interesting if they are recorded as a state of your weakness to Indoctrination like you think. At least I think I remember a few before Cronos station.

Yeah, there are more throughout the game, and most, if not all of them, are on the Normandy. Where the infrasound happens to be. Hmm....

Where's that picture of the "Aliens!" guy that's captioned with "Indoctrination!" when you need it?

[lex0r11]

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

[Arian Dynas]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

I'd be okay if they did an unconventional victory DLC. Victory isn't impossible, but fighting it like a normal war won't work. Its the same deal with past conflicts - namely Vietnam, where conventional US tactics didn't work against the guerilla tactics of the Vietcong, or the American War of Independance where Washington rarely commited to pitched battles because he simply couldn't stand toe to toe with the British armies. You've got to think out of the box and adapt if you want to beat a technologically superior opponant.

NO.

People always quote those wars while not realizing the "slight" difference between a war that's about a resistance force trying to make an occupying army go "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and a war where the goal of both sides is complete extinction of the other.

Want to know how Vietnam would've gone if it was a war about extinction like the Reaper/everyone else war? America would've dropped thermonuclear bombs on Vietnam and it would've been over instantly. Ditto for Soviet Russia and Afghanistan. You know where the Statue of Liberty came from? The French. It was a giant middle finger to the English, whom they were fighting at the same time. See, we were an annoying little insect and our goal was "make it not worth the effort to re-claim the colonies" which is rather different from "face the full brunt of ALL their military forces who will kill every man, woman, and child on this continent without a second thought." Because if it was, the phrase "New England" would take on a whole new meaning. And we'd have a picture of the queen on our money.

While I agree with you about conventional victory, YOU are forgetting one thing.

The goal is NOT extinction, extinction is the byproduct of "preserving" the unwilling species. They want us alive until they kill us. 

It's the difference between slow indoctrination and fast indoctrination, yes they could wipe us out quickly completely and easily, but if they did they would not get what they want, they would destroy the very thing they are looking to capture in doing so, just like how Fast Indoctrination works quickly by definition, but destroy's the useful aspect of the subject, their mind.

They need to bide their time, take things slowly and not just drop a bomb on us if they are to get what they want out of it. If Extermination was the goal, there are far easier ways to go about it than slaughter ships.

[HellishFiend]

Rifneno wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

I'd be okay if they did an unconventional victory DLC. Victory isn't impossible, but fighting it like a normal war won't work. Its the same deal with past conflicts - namely Vietnam, where conventional US tactics didn't work against the guerilla tactics of the Vietcong, or the American War of Independance where Washington rarely commited to pitched battles because he simply couldn't stand toe to toe with the British armies. You've got to think out of the box and adapt if you want to beat a technologically superior opponant.

NO.

People always quote those wars while not realizing the "slight" difference between a war that's about a resistance force trying to make an occupying army go "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and a war where the goal of both sides is complete extinction of the other.

Want to know how Vietnam would've gone if it was a war about extinction like the Reaper/everyone else war? America would've dropped thermonuclear bombs on Vietnam and it would've been over instantly. Ditto for Soviet Russia and Afghanistan. You know where the Statue of Liberty came from? The French. It was a giant middle finger to the English, whom they were fighting at the same time. See, we were an annoying little insect and our goal was "make it not worth the effort to re-claim the colonies" which is rather different from "face the full brunt of ALL their military forces who will kill every man, woman, and child on this continent without a second thought." Because if it was, the phrase "New England" would take on a whole new meaning. And we'd have a picture of the queen on our money.

I'm with Rifneno on this one. Simple way of looking at it is a bunch of kids playing with toys (ME organics/english colonies) vs a bunch of adults with real guns (ME reapers/European powers of the 1700s). 

[estebanus]

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You're 22? So am I! 

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

You need to be multi-national! 

Although, I'm kinda curious... Where do you actually live?

Charleston, SC

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

BTW, nothing against you Byne, I certain that Charleston is a nice place, it's just that, you know, life can suck.  

Yeah, Charleston is pretty nice, but unfortunately there are dicks in every city. <_<

Yeah, ain't that the truth.  On a more positive note, if I ever come down to visit, we'll have to meet up sometime.  Or not.  What can I say, it would be nice to actually MEET some of you guys in person.  I have no problem with internet friendships, but there's something much nicer about talking to people in person.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Priss Blackburne wrote...

hmm there are dialogue options like this through the entire game..be interesting if they are recorded as a state of your weakness to Indoctrination like you think. At least I think I remember a few before Cronos station.

Yeah, there are more throughout the game, and most, if not all of them, are on the Normandy. Where the infrasound happens to be. Hmm....

Where's that picture of the "Aliens!" guy that's captioned with "Indoctrination!" when you need it?

edit: oops wrong one 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:29 .

[byne]

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You're 22? So am I! 

Hey, me too!

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

No new evidences?
...
...
x.x

Interesting. Maybe I should try a full on Renegade playthrough in ME3 and see if it really resembles a SarenShep?

Well, TBH I don't like Renegade Sheps. Especially not on ME3. There, he's the true human Reaper LOL. ^^

I just saw the part with Legion.

No thanks, I'll just take this as evidence that ME3 Renegade is Saren minus the eyes (which can be modded on).

You can Renegade-action Legion 3 times. 3 shots in total. That's a little rude. Poor Legion.

oh MY GOD. How could somebody do that to Legion, and Mordin, and Wrex. I never played as a Renegade Shepard ( only when Kai Leng scene/Udina Scene Not my squad Member But. If that's NOT a clear sign that Shepard is betraying his/her friends just like Reaper Indoctrination state, then Shepard is walking in the Reapers path as Renegade Shepard.

So do you think that we can use the killing Legion, Mordin, and Wrex scenes, as evidence to IT. Because the Reapers manipulate people into betraying friends. So do you think we can also use this as a way that even though Bioware scraped the Idea of losing Shepard  if the Reapers can gain Control over Shepard from time to time in until the end game. Or no because that"s just Renegade Shepard. killing his/her friends, that you some times can not Control if you are full Renegade.

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Soooo, because I chose a bunch of the Paragon dialogue options, that means that I'm screwed?   Well then, I guess that's ONE way to satisfy all those Renegades out there who complain that Paragon decisions never have ANY negative repercussions.  And it would certainly do a good job at making that ME3 Renegade playthrough seem like more than just a long string of puppy kicking incidents. 

Thats just the thing, it's not paragon dialog options anymore at that point. It's weak willed dialog options. If you replay the end sequence with that in mind, you'll see what I mean. 

Oh FRAK!  BioWare really IS a company filled with frakking GENIUSES isn't it?

Yeah, it was a fairly profound moment when Turbo helped me come to that conclusion. And just like IT in general, after you realize it, you wonder why you never noticed it before. Next time you play through the endgame sequence, pay attention to Shep's responses based on whether you pick the top or bottom choice, and its clear it's all about his willpower at that point, rather than nice or evil. 

I think that is a really interesting idea...

I just remember that one of those weak willed vs. strong willed-dialogue choices is right before Cronos during the romance scene with Liara (don't know about other LI): Shepard had the choice between saying "There will be casualties...I just wonder how many" or "We'll win - that's a promise!"

Modifié par Riot86, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:31 .

[Dwailing]

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You're 22? So am I! 

Hey, me too!

Hey, me... Oh, wait, not me, never mind. 

[estebanus]

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

[...]

Hey, I have a friend who lives in Charleston!  Unfortunately, she was the victim of a hit and run and is now recovering from a broken pelvis.  Yeah, some people can REALLY be jerks (I want to say far, FAR worse things about the guy who hit her, but I can't due to the fact that all of the things I WANT to call him are profanities.).  And the worst part (Besides the broken pelvis.)?  The guy hasn't been caught.  Yeah, life can suck, can't it?

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You're 22? So am I! 

Hey, me too!

Hmmm... Something weird is definitely going on...

[comrade gando]

ask isaac clarke about indoctrination

[estebanus]

comrade gando wrote...

ask isaac clarke about indoctrination

LOL. Is this from dead space 3? I haven't played the other parts, so I don't know.

[lex0r11]

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...


Aber so was von.

 

Ist irgendwie Kacke dass ich genau jetzt eine amerikanische Tastatur hab. Verwirrt mich total! 

Wo wohnst du eigentlich?

Frankfurt am Main.

Aber wir sollten glaub ich mit Deutsch aufhören, bevor der Thread geschlossen wird. Zu viel "Kraut" gebrabbel hier.


For everyone else:

Don't worry! No more German gibberish from me in here.

Modifié par lex0r11, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[Dwailing]

estebanus wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

ask isaac clarke about indoctrination

LOL. Is this from dead space 3? I haven't played the other parts, so I don't know.

Uh, if you mean 2 then yes.

Modifié par Dwailing, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

I believe in the concept of karma in buddhism, which was proven many times in my short 22 years. Everything will be payed back in full.

You have GOT to be kidding me. You're 22? So am I! 

Hey, me too!

[Lokanaiya]

Arian:

I respectfully disagree. DESTROY requires you listening to Starbinger and thinking that at least part of it is true. After all, you have to accept that he's telling the truth at least a little. After all, how can you choose unless you know what each choice does? Also, again, you never tell Starbinger that it's possible that he's wrong. You're also ACCEPTING A SOLUTION THAT HE OFFERED. You don't do that in Reject. You ignore everything he says and just tell him to GTFO. You stand up for what you believe in (Free will) and say that you will never, ever compromise with the Reapers.

And the vast majority of what Harbinger wants Shepard for is the fact that he's an icon. In fact, he'd probably want a broken Shepard. That's a bigger blow to morale than a traitorous Shepard. A traitorous Shep would become a martyr, since the real Shepard fought the Reapers until the very end, and now the Reapers would pay for what they did to Shepard. A broken and hopeless Shepard, however, would cause the troops to lose hope and despair. And, honestly, look at his speech. Does that Shepard look broken or like he's "lacking conviction" to you? Or does it look like he's taking more of a stand and doing something harder or more costly than any of the other choices?

Again, Reject is not just rejecting Starbinger's options, it's rejecting everything the Reapers are and everything they stand for. When you choose Destroy, you're trying to achieve what you view as the best future. The Reapers are master manipulators, as you have pointed out, and anytime you fight FOR something (Even a future free from the Reapers) I'd say they could turn any cause into some way to help them. For Reject, you are saying that no matter what, you will never surrender or compromise with the Reapers, and all the choices are compromising with the Reapers, even Destroy, since Starbinger presented the solution.

And to address another of your points, regarding Shepard choosing an option that isn't presented by Harbinger, Arian, I finish with a quote from Dream Anderson said not 5 minutes before this conversation: "There's always another way."