55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Priss Blackburne]

One of the only things that has we wavering in my dedication of the IT theory is the Art vs business.
Indoctrination theory is a brilliant artistic idea but a horrible business risk. It all comes down to me is Bioware more an Artistic developer or more a Business developer. I would like to think the former.

okay most not have gotten enough sleep..1 forgot I was cleaning my house...2 forgot what this was replying too heh

[BansheeOwnage]

HellishFiend wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

That's a good way to boil it down, yes. Destroy is actually a bit more complicated than that. I think the way I worded it is best: "The hero is able to achieve what everyone else cannot". In fact, the literal Destroy ending doesnt completely invalidate the existing themes, but it does trivialize them, which is still a huge mistake for any author to make. 

Honestly, the mistakes of the magnitude we are seeing here would never make it past a first draft. 

It all points to BW not being bad writers. They must have planned something, though I can't think of what besides IT.

Thematically, it has to be IT. BW have proven time and again that they are good writers, and upon deep analyzation, some form of IT is the only possibility that doesnt cause the entire story to be a colossal failure. 

Basically of they don't either continue their plan and implement IT, their idiots. Or they didn't plan IT (somehow) and they should use it anyway to save themselves. Win-win situation really.

[Dwailing]

OK, I'm going to change my sig. Sorry Garrus Vakarian facts, but you have to go for a while. Tell me what you think of my revised version when I'm done.

[Turbo_J]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

MP revival is not really revival, as you are not dead until a baddie stomps on your head. The action to 'revive' someone is an application of MediGel. Like a stim. Picture a plunger and apply the sound. The sound on the Citadel is similar to a robot powering on. I wonder if the sound changes depending on what Shep says at Cronos.

I always go Renegade shortly before that even with pure paragons...

Regarding that, I think Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Well, I didn't do any Renegade action at Cronos station, and the sound is the same in all of the YT videos I saw and in my game.

As for the rest, it's an interesting thought. I never played Renegade, but I noticed that Renegade Shepard in ME3 is much more ruthless, yet more confident though. Paragon is more doubtful and not as confident as he used to be.

Keep in mind this applies to the right choices only and there are exceptions. For example, you don't want to go lower right on the Rachni queen if saving her is the plan.

In particular, I guess it applies to 'conversation', and not where choice is involved. I'll dig into it more time permitting. Maybe it will make it into a segment of Choose Wisely. That's up to director Hellish and his clipboard.

[BansheeOwnage]

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
Wash?  Don't you mean CHURCH? ;)  Anyway, we don't need any of those dirty Blues to beat it!  We can just use... THE GRIF CANNON!

The Grif Cannon™ might work, yes.

We just need someone to put in it... *Looks at nearest Vorcha teammate*

You want Hellish to go in it? You monster!

Wait, HE'S the nearest Vorcha teammate!?   Uh, I should go.

Well he always goes on about his 50 vorcha sentinels he promoted, but I haven't actually played with him.

[BansheeOwnage]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, I'm going to change my sig. Sorry Garrus Vakarian facts, but you have to go for a while. Tell me what you think of my revised version when I'm done.

[Rosewind]

www.youtube.com/watch

HellishFiend wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

And my personal favorite: You want to choose to decide your own fate? Nope, not in the cards. Here, have an apocalypse, instead.

Right, I forgot about the new Refuse ending for a minute there. 

OMG I love the new Avartar!

*Bounces up and down* "Shepard, Commander!?"

lol, thanks.  I love it too. I have a clipboard now!!  *also bounces*

*Puts a saucepan on her head* I'm ready!

(For anyone who has no clue what we are yakking about, check out The Mysteries of Legion and Friends)

Modifié par Rosewind, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Arian Dynas wrote...

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

I got my new theory up called Mind Games Theory (If the name's taken I'll change the name just post a comment on the blog's comment section.)
Go to paragraph 2 and you should get to some views I don't think most people have come out with just yet that I fell support the Indocterination theory very well.
http://social.biowar...93/blog/215156/

Edit: Sorry I meant Paragraph 3 also I went and fixed a few things that I found wrong with it. 

Can you do two things for us please?

A). Run it through word to get your grammatical errors and spelling out of the way so it's clearer.

. Give us the reader's digest version here?

Yeah I'll go ahead and fix it, sorry that I didn't realize how much of a mess it was before now. I forget that people don't always know what it is that I'm talking about, or that they just can't understand it because of how I write. I'm working on fixing it now, but here is the main thing that I was trying to point out with my theory:

"The Reapers could try and turn Legion's sacrifice against Shepard.The reapers are making Shepard choose destroy which will kill the Geth, the race Legion sacrificed himself for, or Shepard can choose Control/Synthesis and make sure the Geth can live at peace with the rest of the Galaxy. The reapers are basically turning Shepard’s beliefs and the sacrifices of his friends against him and trying to persuade him that control and synthesis are the right options. This is one of the many ways the reapers have turned things against shepard. Destory being red and control being blue are good  examples of this happening before.

 

So the idea being that the reason the Destroy tube kills the Geth, is because the Reapers are trying to make it to where Shepard is unwilling to render Legion's sacrifice meaningless?

What are your thoughts about playthroughs where Shepard did not care about EDI or let the Geth die?

If not EDI or the geth, the only thing left to disuade Shepard from choosing destroy is concern for his own life. That is if one believes the catalyst speaks the truth about the effects of Destroy. 

Modifié par GethPrimeMKII, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:47 .

[D.Sharrah]

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip...

...Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Really?  That early, wow.  But I do have a question in that regard.  Seeing what your avatar is...I assume that Liara is the primary LI you choose...if so, do you think that momments where Shep seems to "lack confidence/strength of will" are in character?  For me...Liara is the only one that Shep can show his vulnerability to...in fact there LOTSB meeting was great because of this.  I think that it is appropriate for Shep to show some cracks in the armor...to be human...etc (however you want to phrase it)., when interacting with the LI.  What do you think?

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...

Keep in mind this applies to the right choices only and there are exceptions. For example, you don't want to go lower right on the Rachni queen if saving her is the plan.

In particular, I guess it applies to 'conversation', and not where choice is involved. I'll dig into it more time permitting. Maybe it will make it into a segment of Choose Wisely. That's up to director Hellish and his clipboard.

The clipboard is law. 

[Dwailing]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

OK, I'm going to change my sig. Sorry Garrus Vakarian facts, but you have to go for a while. Tell me what you think of my revised version when I'm done.

Thanks!  What can I say, I get VERY sick of people calling the BioWare writers bad/lazy.

[BansheeOwnage]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip...

...Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Really?  That early, wow.  But I do have a question in that regard.  Seeing what your avatar is...I assume that Liara is the primary LI you choose...if so, do you think that momments where Shep seems to "lack confidence/strength of will" are in character?  For me...Liara is the only one that Shep can show his vulnerability to...in fact there LOTSB meeting was great because of this.  I think that it is appropriate for Shep to show some cracks in the armor...to be human...etc (however you want to phrase it)., when interacting with the LI.  What do you think?

Yeah that's basically it. Just remember that in many conversations top doesn't really mean paragon and bottom doesn't really mean renegade. It's more yes or no depending on the context. That's why I don't do "paragon playthroughs" or "renegade playthroughs". I do normal playthroughs and answer things how I would actually answer them.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:46 .

[HellishFiend]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

You want Hellish to go in it? You monster!

Wait, HE'S the nearest Vorcha teammate!?   Uh, I should go.

Well he always goes on about his 50 vorcha sentinels he promoted, but I haven't actually played with him.

No one has anything on my 50 vorcha sentinels. I have over 9000 EMS immediately upon starting a game. Reapers tremble in fear and know their days are numbered as soon as they land on Earth. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:49 .

[BansheeOwnage]

HellishFiend wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

You want Hellish to go in it? You monster!

Wait, HE'S the nearest Vorcha teammate!?   Uh, I should go.

Well he always goes on about his 50 vorcha sentinels he promoted, but I haven't actually played with him.

No one has anything on my 50 vorcha sentinels. I have over 9000 EMS immediately upon starting a game. Reapers tremble in fear and know their days are numbered as soon as they land on Earth. 

Everyone knows vorcha sentinels own in space combat

[UltimateTobi]

Turbo_J wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

MP revival is not really revival, as you are not dead until a baddie stomps on your head. The action to 'revive' someone is an application of MediGel. Like a stim. Picture a plunger and apply the sound. The sound on the Citadel is similar to a robot powering on. I wonder if the sound changes depending on what Shep says at Cronos.

I always go Renegade shortly before that even with pure paragons...

Regarding that, I think Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Well, I didn't do any Renegade action at Cronos station, and the sound is the same in all of the YT videos I saw and in my game.

As for the rest, it's an interesting thought. I never played Renegade, but I noticed that Renegade Shepard in ME3 is much more ruthless, yet more confident though. Paragon is more doubtful and not as confident as he used to be.

Keep in mind this applies to the right choices only and there are exceptions. For example, you don't want to go lower right on the Rachni queen if saving her is the plan.

In particular, I guess it applies to 'conversation', and not where choice is involved. I'll dig into it more time permitting. Maybe it will make it into a segment of Choose Wisely. That's up to director Hellish and his clipboard.

Yeah, thought that too that what we're talking about is about conversations, not about decisions. I wen't with Paragon everywhere, because that's the way I am, so is my Shepard.

Except for the ending ofcourse, I saw through the illusion of the Reapers.

[masster blaster]

Turbo_J wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

We know of the sound, which sounds like a defibrilator.

You know, I'm not so sure about that now.  We know what a defibrilator sounds like in-game, since its part of Multiplayer when you revive a teammate.  Why would it be any different for Shepard?

But I have no idea what else could be making the sound...

Well, where Shep wakes up it sounds more like a real defib. I don't think the defib. sound from MP would match into that scene. The MP sound lasts too long. The (seemingly) real sound fits better.

MP revival is not really revival, as you are not dead until a baddie stomps on your head. The action to 'revive' someone is an application of MediGel. Like a stim. Picture a plunger and apply the sound. The sound on the Citadel is similar to a robot powering on. I wonder if the sound changes depending on what Shep says at Cronos.

I always go Renegade shortly before that even with pure paragons...

Regarding that, I think Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Ya Renegade Shepard is very Comfident, but Saren, and Tim were too,and look where it got them.

Also Renegade is like folowing the Reaper's Indoctrination step one or was it step 2, or 3.

The Reapers manipulate the indoctrinating person to betray his/her friends.

legion, Mordin, Wrex, and maymore people Shepard kills if you press the cut Renegade option.

i think in ME2 Bioware did that as away people could do something that would either be good thing, or bad thing, but once they had IT idea for ME3. They used the cut Paragon, and Renegade ar a way to show what is happening to Shepard, and ia slowly folowing the Reapers way of things if Renegade, but also with paragon.

As paragon Shepard you can see that the Reapers, want Shepard to feel all hope is lost because it makes their job very easy to invade Shepard's mind, but Shepard's friends are in the way so they set plans in ahead to deal with the major threats that allow Shepard to keep the fire alive, even though Sheaprd has his/her Li, and squad. It's still not enof to with hold the Reapes mind tactice.

Also as Renegade Shepard the Reapers want Shepard to feel like I can win, becaues they use the three choices as a way to manipulate Shepard to " Oh so do you think you can control us" as a way to get to Shepard's pride.

Hence forth Loyalty is a weakness because they wil try to find a way to save others, but that's just it. if you are paragon, or Renegade Shepard( the player) you are to loyal to your friends that you can not sacrifice your friends to win.

hence forth Pride is a weakness too because they get to the player that so you think you can kill us that makes you tough, but can you control us or save everyone. Basicly you morals aer used against you and everything you learned since ME1-90% of ME3 is all a big lie, and That the Catalyst is right for no reason what so ever.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Dwailing wrote...

OK, I'm going to change my sig. Sorry Garrus Vakarian facts, but you have to go for a while. Tell me what you think of my revised version when I'm done.

Holy mole...

How deep did Bioware dig when constructing these games? Reading through just a bit of this, all the connections made behind the scenes it only makes me even more certain they cannot have dropped teh ball so heavily on the ending.

[BansheeOwnage]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

If not EDI or the geth, the only thing left to disuade Shepard from choosing destroy is concern for his own life. That is if one believes the catalyst speaks the truth about the effects of Destroy. 

Well he does say for sure that you'll die in the other 3 so...

[UltimateTobi]

masster blaster wrote...

Ya Renegade Shepard is very Comfident, but Saren, and Tim were too,and look where it got them.

Also Renegade is like folowing the Reaper's Indoctrination step one or was it step 2, or 3.

The Reapers manipulate the indoctrinating person to betray his/her friends.

legion, Mordin, Wrex, and maymore people Shepard kills if you press the cut Renegade option.

Good point. Never thought about that. But it makes sense. In no ME you were able to kill a friend with a Renegade option. In ME3 you do.

And even let Samara kill herself with non-Paragon-action her. And her daughter later per Renegade decision.

(And, everytime someone shot in his/her own head, blood was flying all over the place, except when TIM shot in his own head. There was no blood. I know, old evidence, just wanted to repeat it in that context.)

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[BansheeOwnage]

HellishFiend wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

You want Hellish to go in it? You monster!

Wait, HE'S the nearest Vorcha teammate!?   Uh, I should go.

Well he always goes on about his 50 vorcha sentinels he promoted, but I haven't actually played with him.

No one has anything on my 50 vorcha sentinels. I have over 9000 EMS immediately upon starting a game. Reapers tremble in fear and know their days are numbered as soon as they land on Earth. 

Hmm. Seems like no one in that thread understood what you meant.  That's why I love this thread.  IMHO a conglomeration of the smartest people on BSN.

[masster blaster]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Snip...

...Hellish brought it up before but I thought I could expand on it...

I noticed early on that Paragon and Renegade are not the same in ME3. Paragon is doubt and Renegade is confidence. I've traced this as far back as the third meeting with Miranda. I'll have to do another playthrough to see when it actually 'starts'.

It's not purely consistent I don't think, interrupts are still what we have come to expect and red/blue choices seem to match up with ME1 and 2, but the right Renegade/Paragon choices seem to fit my observations. Come to think of it, even on Mars with Liara after going through the cafeteria, the first lower right choice is much more solid than the upper right.

Yet another video idea for thematic changes to player and Shepard's perception of things compared to the previous two games.

Really?  That early, wow.  But I do have a question in that regard.  Seeing what your avatar is...I assume that Liara is the primary LI you choose...if so, do you think that momments where Shep seems to "lack confidence/strength of will" are in character?  For me...Liara is the only one that Shep can show his vulnerability to...in fact there LOTSB meeting was great because of this.  I think that it is appropriate for Shep to show some cracks in the armor...to be human...etc (however you want to phrase it)., when interacting with the LI.  What do you think?

Not really Ash is good at getting Shepard to show his vulnerability too.

[byne]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Good point. Never thought about that. But it makes sense. In no ME you were able to kill a friend with a Renegade option. In ME3 you do.

And even let Samara kill herself with non-Paragon-action her. And her daughter later per Renegade decision.

(And, everytime someone shot in his/her own head, blood was flying all over the place, except when TIM shot in his own head. There was no blood. I know, old evidence, just wanted to repeat it in that context.)

You could kill Wrex in ME1

[UltimateTobi]

byne wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Good point. Never thought about that. But it makes sense. In no ME you were able to kill a friend with a Renegade option. In ME3 you do.

And even let Samara kill herself with non-Paragon-action her. And her daughter later per Renegade decision.

(And, everytime someone shot in his/her own head, blood was flying all over the place, except when TIM shot in his own head. There was no blood. I know, old evidence, just wanted to repeat it in that context.)

You could kill Wrex in ME1

Oh, jeez forgot about that.

Forget what I said.

[masster blaster]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

If not EDI or the geth, the only thing left to disuade Shepard from choosing destroy is concern for his own life. That is if one believes the catalyst speaks the truth about the effects of Destroy. 

Well he does say for sure that you'll die in the other 3 so...

yep the Catalyst is sure Shepard will die even though if you still have High EMS it still says you will die.

[BansheeOwnage]

UltimateTobi wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Ya Renegade Shepard is very Comfident, but Saren, and Tim were too,and look where it got them.

Also Renegade is like folowing the Reaper's Indoctrination step one or was it step 2, or 3.

The Reapers manipulate the indoctrinating person to betray his/her friends.

legion, Mordin, Wrex, and maymore people Shepard kills if you press the cut Renegade option.

Good point. Never thought about that. But it makes sense. In no ME you were able to kill a friend with a Renegade option. In ME3 you do.

And even let Samara kill herself with non-Paragon-action her. And her daughter later per Renegade decision.

(And, everytime someone shot in his/her own head, blood was flying all over the place, except when TIM shot in his own head. There was no blood. I know, old evidence, just wanted to repeat it in that context.)

Not sure what to make of the no blood thing. It instantly struck me as odd though. It wouldn't really make sense to be a way to tone-down gore considering Saren had blood and when you shoot someone with a high-powered weapon their entire head is blown off. Or when you tear an enemy to shreds with carnage.