55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Turbo_J]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 10 juillet 2012 - 03:54 .

[TJBartlemus]

Turbo_J wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

Here's how it is in a story. Antagonist: Creates problem. Protagonist: Solves problem. The protagonist also generally is the person from who's perspective WE (the audience) see. Shepard has to be the protagonist. No question.

[BansheeOwnage]

Turbo_J wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

Did you read what I said. I think you mean "hero". The protagonist is the main character. The main character is Shepard. I'm quite good at understanding things, but I really don't seem to get you.

[BansheeOwnage]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

Here's how it is in a story. Antagonist: Creates problem. Protagonist: Solves problem. The protagonist also generally is the person from who's perspective WE (the audience) see. Shepard has to be the protagonist. No question.

+1. Can you just explain how Shepard is not the main character? What do you mean here?

[D.Sharrah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

New page...don't want this lost...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Pulling this out of moth balls...

http://social.biowar.../index/11192986

Thought it had some relevance to the whole Renegade Shep seems like Saren (although it includes some points about Paragons as well).

Let me know if this helps the discussion.

"Indoctrination is not a straight line. There are many paths to the same end."

And that's not even very fleshed out...but I think it gets the basic idea across.

[Lokanaiya]

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

Yeah, people apparently haven't felt like speculating about evidence lately, but I agree that it's not real. I don't know if the Reapers put it in his perceptions, I think it's more likely that it's Shepard's subconcious trying to tell him how close he is to losing it and going with the child to be burnt, but you're right, I can't imagine that the Reapers would just leave organic material around.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

Yeah, people apparently haven't felt like speculating about evidence lately, but I agree that it's not real. I don't know if the Reapers put it in his perceptions, I think it's more likely that it's Shepard's subconcious trying to tell him how close he is to losing it and going with the child to be burnt, but you're right, I can't imagine that the Reapers would just leave organic material around.

A waking-nightmare makes way more sense than a dream there. Partial hallucination.

Edit: I think people kind of "turned off" until comic-con.

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 10 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[invetro]

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

This is jet black as far as I can see, and descending from the ceiling, not touching the floor, which rules out blood to me. From the youtube vid I managed to look at, the streaks are only around the bed area, the stair way and above the door the husk claws through, but the person doing the playthrough was moving a bit too fast to be sure. It's interesting that the bed is the same model. With everything going on, this has to be more than coincedence.

I'll need to read through the waking nightmare theory, because I haven't done that yet.

[Lokanaiya]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

Yeah, people apparently haven't felt like speculating about evidence lately, but I agree that it's not real. I don't know if the Reapers put it in his perceptions, I think it's more likely that it's Shepard's subconcious trying to tell him how close he is to losing it and going with the child to be burnt, but you're right, I can't imagine that the Reapers would just leave organic material around.

A waking-nightmare makes way more sense than a dream there. Partial hallucination.

That doesn't relate to the post you quoted, but explain, please, and give evidence.

[D.Sharrah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

Did you read what I said. I think you mean "hero". The protagonist is the main character. The main character is Shepard. I'm quite good at understanding things, but I really don't seem to get you.

I could be wrong...but I think that this is another "literal" vs. "figurative" argument...

http://fictionwritin...protagonist.htm - this may help.

And I think that you are both right.  Shep is the main character - but the question is how is he portrayed...I think?  Like I said, I could be wrong.

[BansheeOwnage]

invetro wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

This is jet black as far as I can see, and descending from the ceiling, not touching the floor, which rules out blood to me. From the youtube vid I managed to look at, the streaks are only around the bed area, the stair way and above the door the husk claws through, but the person doing the playthrough was moving a bit too fast to be sure. It's interesting that the bed is the same model. With everything going on, this has to be more than coincedence.

I'll need to read through the waking nightmare theory, because I haven't done that yet.

What I want to know is if Liara's (oddly unsed) bed is the same model. Because if it is, it's most likely just the only bed model in the game. So it wouldn't be surprising.

[D.Sharrah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

What I want to know is if Liara's (oddly unsed) bed is the same model. Because if it is, it's most likely just the only bed model in the game. So it wouldn't be surprising.

Never understood why Liara wasn't "sleeping" in Shep's cabin for more of the game...

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

Yeah, people apparently haven't felt like speculating about evidence lately, but I agree that it's not real. I don't know if the Reapers put it in his perceptions, I think it's more likely that it's Shepard's subconcious trying to tell him how close he is to losing it and going with the child to be burnt, but you're right, I can't imagine that the Reapers would just leave organic material around.

A waking-nightmare makes way more sense than a dream there. Partial hallucination.

That doesn't relate to the post you quoted, but explain, please, and give evidence.

I just mean a lot of things are off about London right? Basically Shepard actually does this mission but is hallucinating during it. Like she's on drugs instead of hallucinating while unconcious. Unlike the beam run, which is most likely 100% fake.

[TJBartlemus]

Lokanaiya wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

a confused bump* (Why no answers or speculation??) 

TJBartlemus wrote...

invetro wrote...

Also, in London, in the room where the reaper forces are seen using allied stationary weapons for the first time ever, there's a skeleton on the bed. I am only now finding that quite strange. Why wasn't this dead person carted off and used as reaper goo? As well as the black stuff that has seeped out of the walls all over London. You can see it coming down from the ceilings in that same building. It looks similar to the black goo in the Citadel, only static.

Yeah we speculated on the London mission for a while when Riot86 posted his findings. (Found in WNT: Version 2) My thoughts on that was that the skeleton on the bed is burnt. However if this is true it would make no sense whatsoever. Reapers use all the organic material they can find. Living or dead. So this rules out that they left it or the cannibles ate it. The body couldn't be burnt from an explosion because the rest of the bed is fine and white. I think that the body is not real, but an image put by the Reapers in messing with Shepard's perceptions. It symbolises that Shepard burnt in his last dream which was in his bed. The bed same model as the one in the Normandy and apartment in London. 

The black goo I believe is blood but as that the room is almost fully dark, you couldn't see the color. Either way lots of blood tends to be dark red anyway.

Yeah, people apparently haven't felt like speculating about evidence lately, but I agree that it's not real. I don't know if the Reapers put it in his perceptions, I think it's more likely that it's Shepard's subconcious trying to tell him how close he is to losing it and going with the child to be burnt, but you're right, I can't imagine that the Reapers would just leave organic material around.

A waking-nightmare makes way more sense than a dream there. Partial hallucination.

That doesn't relate to the post you quoted, but explain, please, and give evidence.

Actually it does. Well at least the discussion is relevant. I was talking in one of the posts about my WNT. So he is valid. If you have yet to read it it's in my signiture. (I would recommend to read Version 2 first. I also have a group if you like it. Also in signiture.)

[Turbo_J]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

It's not as cut and dry as that, but it's close. The Paragon/Renegade
options are a bit of a clue, as is their reversal in some situations.

Shepard is on the path of an antagonist even if they don't know it. I thought Bill's Pied Piper strip was a nice touch to clue some people in on it.

This intrigues me...fits in with my idea about Shep and Saren being mirrors to each other quite well...out of curiosity, who do you see as the potential protagonist in the game?

Well, Shepard is the protagonist. Period. Are you looking for the word "hero"?

Edit: Glad I made my sig.

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

Here's how it is in a story. Antagonist: Creates problem. Protagonist: Solves problem. The protagonist also generally is the person from who's perspective WE (the audience) see. Shepard has to be the protagonist. No question.

+1. Can you just explain how Shepard is not the main character? What do you mean here?

From my edit above...

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

The Crucible is a time/energy wasting trap

Shepard gets everyone to follow him/her because they were always right before

Shepard leads everyone into a shooting gallery

Shepard can, in some cases trust enemies and betray friends. There are obvious instances of this with Mordin, Wrex and Legion and their counterparts, but there are also subtle instances as well. Miranda conveniently putting a tracer on Kia Leng? Come on! Traynor? WTF is Liara doing with her time that Traynor finds this stuff in signals and is prodded by EDI of all people to 'give the intel to Shepard? If EDI knew about it, why didn't she report is immediately.

None of these people are likely doing any of this on purpose. They are being manipulated, just like Shepard.

Shepard is fooled into betraying the galaxy, unknowingly.

They are the ultimate sleeper agent. Controlled by the player themselves... to a point. We don't have full control, after all, do we.

As I said... this isn't the end of Shepard's story. You have to believe we're not done yet.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 10 juillet 2012 - 04:12 .

[BansheeOwnage]

D.Sharrah wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

What I want to know is if Liara's (oddly unsed) bed is the same model. Because if it is, it's most likely just the only bed model in the game. So it wouldn't be surprising.

Never understood why Liara wasn't "sleeping" in Shep's cabin for more of the game...

Yeah, considering it's sopposed to take place over several months. After a 6 month gap... and a 2 year gap before that.........

Modifié par BansheeOwnage, 10 juillet 2012 - 04:08 .

[BansheeOwnage]

Turbo_J wrote...

From my edit above...

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

The Crucible is a time/energy wasting trap

Shepard gets everyone to follow him/her because they were always right before

Shepard leads everyone into a shotting gallery

Shepard can, in some cases trust enemies and betray friends. There are obvious instances of this with Mordin, Wrex and Legion and their counterparts, but there are also subtle instances as well. Miranda conveniently putting a tracer on Kia Leng? Come on! Traynor? WTF is Liara doing with her time that Traynor finds this stuff in signals and is prodded by EDI of all people to 'give the intel to Shepard? If EDI knew about it, why didn't she report is immediately.

None of these people are likely doing any of this on purpose. They are being manipulated, just like Shepard.

Shepard is fooled into betraying the galaxy, unknowingly.

They are the ultimate sleeper agent. Controlled by the player themselves... to a point. We don't have full control, after all, do we.

As I said... this isn't the end of Shepard's story. You have to believe we're not done yet.

So you think that none of the 4 options break indoc? And how does a protagonist being manipulated not make her a protagonist?

[Lokanaiya]

Sorry for snapping there, it's no excuse, but I'm very tired and crabby. I better go to bed before I say anything else stupid or miss the point again.

Good night.

[D.Sharrah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

What I want to know is if Liara's (oddly unsed) bed is the same model. Because if it is, it's most likely just the only bed model in the game. So it wouldn't be surprising.

Never understood why Liara wasn't "sleeping" in Shep's cabin for more of the game...

Yeah, considering it's sopposed to take place over several months. After a 6 month gap... and a 2 year gap before that.........

I just don't get how come we can't have an adult relationship...I sleep with my wife everynight - regardless of whether or not we are "doing" anything...and I am not saying the Shep and Liara are married - but after three games, they should be closer than one encounter!

[D.Sharrah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

From my edit above...

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

The Crucible is a time/energy wasting trap

Shepard gets everyone to follow him/her because they were always right before

Shepard leads everyone into a shotting gallery

Shepard can, in some cases trust enemies and betray friends. There are obvious instances of this with Mordin, Wrex and Legion and their counterparts, but there are also subtle instances as well. Miranda conveniently putting a tracer on Kia Leng? Come on! Traynor? WTF is Liara doing with her time that Traynor finds this stuff in signals and is prodded by EDI of all people to 'give the intel to Shepard? If EDI knew about it, why didn't she report is immediately.

None of these people are likely doing any of this on purpose. They are being manipulated, just like Shepard.

Shepard is fooled into betraying the galaxy, unknowingly.

They are the ultimate sleeper agent. Controlled by the player themselves... to a point. We don't have full control, after all, do we.

As I said... this isn't the end of Shepard's story. You have to believe we're not done yet.

So you think that none of the 4 options break indoc? And how does a protagonist being manipulated not make her a protagonist?

More to the point, that we have not seen the affects of Shep breaking the indoctrination.  Not that the option isn't there...

[Turbo_J]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

From my edit above...

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

The Crucible is a time/energy wasting trap

Shepard gets everyone to follow him/her because they were always right before

Shepard leads everyone into a shotting gallery

Shepard can, in some cases trust enemies and betray friends. There are obvious instances of this with Mordin, Wrex and Legion and their counterparts, but there are also subtle instances as well. Miranda conveniently putting a tracer on Kia Leng? Come on! Traynor? WTF is Liara doing with her time that Traynor finds this stuff in signals and is prodded by EDI of all people to 'give the intel to Shepard? If EDI knew about it, why didn't she report is immediately.

None of these people are likely doing any of this on purpose. They are being manipulated, just like Shepard.

Shepard is fooled into betraying the galaxy, unknowingly.

They are the ultimate sleeper agent. Controlled by the player themselves... to a point. We don't have full control, after all, do we.

As I said... this isn't the end of Shepard's story. You have to believe we're not done yet.

So you think that none of the 4 options break indoc? And how does a protagonist being manipulated not make her a protagonist?

I'm really going to have to spell this out, hah. I don't have time right now. I need to get some sleep before work.

Shepard is acting on the Reapers behest... look how much it worked until people clued into Indoctrination.

The way out is destroy. It's an interrupt for Shepard against themselves, really. Blowing something up and almost dying is pretty close to a bullet in the brain.

Shepard had basically been manipulated into doing the Reapers bidding without knowing it. In two out of the three choices at the end, they becomes the Reapers hero, not the galaxy's hero.

Better?

[BansheeOwnage]

D.Sharrah wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

What I want to know is if Liara's (oddly unsed) bed is the same model. Because if it is, it's most likely just the only bed model in the game. So it wouldn't be surprising.

Never understood why Liara wasn't "sleeping" in Shep's cabin for more of the game...

Yeah, considering it's sopposed to take place over several months. After a 6 month gap... and a 2 year gap before that.........

I just don't get how come we can't have an adult relationship...I sleep with my wife everynight - regardless of whether or not we are "doing" anything...and I am not saying the Shep and Liara are married - but after three games, they should be closer than one encounter!

Yeah it's a bit odd. Especially considering the state of the galaxy, what's at stake, and odds of survival.

[BansheeOwnage]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Sorry for snapping there, it's no excuse, but I'm very tired and crabby. I better go to bed before I say anything else stupid or miss the point again.

Good night.

Good night!

[Chriz Tah Fah]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

From my edit above...

Yes, Shepard is the protagonist... if you're looking for a Reaper win.

I'm not saying there isn't a way out of this, we haven't got to the 'end' of Shepard's story just yet, but as it stands, the Reapers have thoroughly manipulated him/her and us into doing their bidding without really 'knowing' it.

The Crucible is a time/energy wasting trap

Shepard gets everyone to follow him/her because they were always right before

Shepard leads everyone into a shotting gallery

Shepard can, in some cases trust enemies and betray friends. There are obvious instances of this with Mordin, Wrex and Legion and their counterparts, but there are also subtle instances as well. Miranda conveniently putting a tracer on Kia Leng? Come on! Traynor? WTF is Liara doing with her time that Traynor finds this stuff in signals and is prodded by EDI of all people to 'give the intel to Shepard? If EDI knew about it, why didn't she report is immediately.

None of these people are likely doing any of this on purpose. They are being manipulated, just like Shepard.

Shepard is fooled into betraying the galaxy, unknowingly.

They are the ultimate sleeper agent. Controlled by the player themselves... to a point. We don't have full control, after all, do we.

As I said... this isn't the end of Shepard's story. You have to believe we're not done yet.

So you think that none of the 4 options break indoc? And how does a protagonist being manipulated not make her a protagonist?

This speculation is really cool and would make a great mind blowing twist. However IMO I doubt that this is possible. If this happened because Shep was indoctrinated then the prothian VI's would have identified it. If it was

pure manipulation and Shepard was misled all along then every single race before them did the exact same thing AND FAILED. Shepard being "able" to "use" the crucible for good or for bad would at least show the true nature of the Crucible. This information could be put into the Liara VI in the reject ending with her saying that the Crucible

failed, or to not include blueprints of the Crucible at all. However, if the Crucible is a reaper trap, it is likely that the reapers were the ones that provided the blueprints. Either way it would become clear for the next cycle at least 

[masster blaster]

Lokanaiya wrote...

Sorry for snapping there, it's no excuse, but I'm very tired and crabby. I better go to bed before I say anything else stupid or miss the point again.

Good night.

Night loka.