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[mass perfection]

lex0r11 wrote...

There is no waking up in indoctrination when it's finished, your mind is gone. Replaced by Reaper OS.

If your talking about gameplay or waking up when indoctrination is still taking place, that's something else entirely.

Wouldn't they use Shepard to sabotage the Crucible when he's indoctrinated rather than leave him in a pile of rubble?

[Chashan]

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

Modifié par Chashan, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:05 .

[mass perfection]

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

[lex0r11]

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

The greatest benefit they have from indoctrinating Shepard is the moral aspect. The greates hero of the galaxy turning against them. They did it against the protheans and that war lasted for hundreds of years. Slowly turning everyone against each other. Well-known personalities are ideal for this to break the races on a large scale.

Modifié par lex0r11, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:09 .

[mass perfection]

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

The greatest benefit they have from indoctrinating Shepard is the moral aspect. The greates hero of the galaxy turning against them. They did it against the protheans and that war lasted for hundreds of years. Slowly turning everyone against each other. Well-known personalities are ideal for this to break the races on a large scale.

Even with low EMS,they should indoctrinate Shepard.He'd make an effective soldier and indoctrination controls whatever it can.Useless or not.

[DirtyPhoenix]

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

He'd be more effective as something else don't you think?

[Chashan]

mass perfection wrote...
]So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

He would make the perfect leader-figure to be manipulated, much like Mr Arterius, much like TIM, which is the entire point for the Reapers trying to influence him in the first place. Merely having the Commander be husk no. X would not make sense for the villains that the Reapers are.

I say "villains" because yes, you could say it makes more sense for the Reapers to just finish the Commander off, but then again, "villains" in fiction rarely do the smoothest coup-de-grace to the protagonist, do they?

PS: I am fairly neutral in regards to the whole interpretation of the last legs of the game being a mind-game, just giving my piece there. And the questions you asked were addressed numerous times already...

[Rosewind]

mass perfection wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Another question.

How come you don't wake up in all of the endings?If you picked Control or Synthesis,you should wake up indoctrinated.In Destroy,you should wake up not indoctrinated.

Because if they showed you waking up in those ending it will be a HUGE give away, they want us to speculate and talking about it they said so them selves and if they add those scene to them it would spoil the magic you could say.

It should have been in the game in the first place rather than have me wait a couple months to recieve DLC that explains it all.

That I agree on actually, some the stuff they added was why didn't you have that in the original release but you have to understand EA was pressuring them for a release.

[mass perfection]

pirate1802 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

He'd be more effective as something else don't you think?

Yes,but with low EMS where he's "useless" to them he'd still be an effective soldier to add to their army.Indoctrination would still control him regardless if he's useful or not.

[byne]

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

The greatest benefit they have from indoctrinating Shepard is the moral aspect. The greates hero of the galaxy turning against them. They did it against the protheans and that war lasted for hundreds of years. Slowly turning everyone against each other. Well-known personalities are ideal for this to break the races on a large scale.

What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them? - Bastila Shan, KotoR


I'm actually going to bed this time.

[lex0r11]

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

There is no waking up in indoctrination when it's finished, your mind is gone. Replaced by Reaper OS.

If your talking about gameplay or waking up when indoctrination is still taking place, that's something else entirely.

Wouldn't they use Shepard to sabotage the Crucible when he's indoctrinated rather than leave him in a pile of rubble?

The breath scene is after the whole INDOC Fight. Destroy leads to a breath scene. Theory is that every other choice will play into the reapers hand.

When you refuse or shoot at the catalyst, you hear a reaper, IF not harbinger himself.

And how do you know if the consequences of control or synthesis are real? You trust something that was trying to kill or indoctrinate you for years?

Refusing them leads to termination of the whole thing, you just wake up without having the chance to do something against the reapers. Just think about how destroy is full of negative consequences when the catalyst describes it to you.

edit:
I also see it like this, that in reality there was just a kill switch or a console. Shepard just saw this whole scene prepared by the catalyst to shroud a simple choice: Hit the button and kill the reapers OR do nothing and become part/controlled by the reapers.

The destroy choice was still in that scene because Shepards mind was STILL fighting. So the scene had to have outside influences (in this case, part of the real world still perceived by Shepard)

Modifié par lex0r11, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:26 .

[mass perfection]

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

There is no waking up in indoctrination when it's finished, your mind is gone. Replaced by Reaper OS.

If your talking about gameplay or waking up when indoctrination is still taking place, that's something else entirely.

Wouldn't they use Shepard to sabotage the Crucible when he's indoctrinated rather than leave him in a pile of rubble?

The breath scene is after the whole INDOC Fight. Destroy leads to a breath scene. Theory is that every other choice will play into the reapers hand.

When you refuse or shoot at the catalyst, you hear a reaper, IF not harbinger himself.

And how do you know if the consequences of control or synthesis are real? You trust something that was trying to kill or indoctrinate you for years?

Refusing them leads to termination of the whole thing, you just wake up without having the chance to do something against the reapers. Just think about how destroy is full of negative consequences when the catalyst describes it to you.

The Catalyst is the leader of the Reapers.Why wouldn't he have some sort of cool Reaper voice?Reapers don't really have any control over indoctrination so it can't be Harbinger.
 
I don't know why BW would try to trick me at the end of their trilogy.

Synthesis and Control have more negative effects than Destroy.

[Rosewind]

byne wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Chashan wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Indoctrination takes over anyone.It's not sentient.Why would it indoctrinate those Salarians?They were obviously useless.The only control Reapers have over their indoctrination is speeding it up or slowing it down.

Do keep in mind that those experiments were sanctioned by Mr Arterius, much in the same vein TIM tried creating his army of husks, albeit in Arterius's case merely to the effect of figuring out how that buzzing affected his own mind. Thereby explaining the "worthlessness" of the STG grunts...

...although you have to remember the asari cutie, Ms Thanoptis: it IS mentioned directly in ME3 that she assassinated key personnel of the asari forces by the Reapers' command. Which makes it probable that her involvement with the breeding program of vat-krogan in ME2 was another Reaper-plot to create more foot-soldiers for them, who knows.

So Shepard wouldn't make an effective foot soldier?

The greatest benefit they have from indoctrinating Shepard is the moral aspect. The greates hero of the galaxy turning against them. They did it against the protheans and that war lasted for hundreds of years. Slowly turning everyone against each other. Well-known personalities are ideal for this to break the races on a large scale.

What greater weapon is there than to turn an enemy to your cause? To use their own knowledge against them? - Bastila Shan, KotoR


I'm actually going to bed this time.

Good Night Sir!

[lex0r11]

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

There is no waking up in indoctrination when it's finished, your mind is gone. Replaced by Reaper OS.

If your talking about gameplay or waking up when indoctrination is still taking place, that's something else entirely.

Wouldn't they use Shepard to sabotage the Crucible when he's indoctrinated rather than leave him in a pile of rubble?

The breath scene is after the whole INDOC Fight. Destroy leads to a breath scene. Theory is that every other choice will play into the reapers hand.

When you refuse or shoot at the catalyst, you hear a reaper, IF not harbinger himself.

And how do you know if the consequences of control or synthesis are real? You trust something that was trying to kill or indoctrinate you for years?

Refusing them leads to termination of the whole thing, you just wake up without having the chance to do something against the reapers. Just think about how destroy is full of negative consequences when the catalyst describes it to you.

The Catalyst is the leader of the Reapers.Why wouldn't he have some sort of cool Reaper voice?Reapers don't really have any control over indoctrination so it can't be Harbinger.
 
I don't know why BW would try to trick me at the end of their trilogy.

Synthesis and Control have more negative effects than Destroy.

Listen to the desciptions of all choices again. Destroy is sold as the worst thing ever.
I also edited something to my post just now, maybe it helps too.

The fact that it took on the form of a kid Shepard sees the entire game in dreams and for real has to mean something in terms of their capability to see Shepards mind.

Projection of familiar things maybe lowers guard. Maybe it's just to mess with his mind, forcing some guilt, pressing for a choice. But they somehow have a way to get in your head or read it.

Not fishy at all?

[mass perfection]

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

There is no waking up in indoctrination when it's finished, your mind is gone. Replaced by Reaper OS.

If your talking about gameplay or waking up when indoctrination is still taking place, that's something else entirely.

Wouldn't they use Shepard to sabotage the Crucible when he's indoctrinated rather than leave him in a pile of rubble?

The breath scene is after the whole INDOC Fight. Destroy leads to a breath scene. Theory is that every other choice will play into the reapers hand.

When you refuse or shoot at the catalyst, you hear a reaper, IF not harbinger himself.

And how do you know if the consequences of control or synthesis are real? You trust something that was trying to kill or indoctrinate you for years?

Refusing them leads to termination of the whole thing, you just wake up without having the chance to do something against the reapers. Just think about how destroy is full of negative consequences when the catalyst describes it to you.

The Catalyst is the leader of the Reapers.Why wouldn't he have some sort of cool Reaper voice?Reapers don't really have any control over indoctrination so it can't be Harbinger.
 
I don't know why BW would try to trick me at the end of their trilogy.

Synthesis and Control have more negative effects than Destroy.

Listen to the desciptions of all choices again. Destroy is sold as the worst thing ever.
I also edited something to my post just now, maybe it helps too.

The fact that it took on the form of a kid Shepard sees the entire game in dreams and for real has to mean something in terms of their capability to see Shepards mind.

Projection of familiar things maybe lowers guard. Maybe it's just to mess with his mind, forcing some guilt, pressing for a choice. But they somehow have a way to get in your head or read it.

Not fishy at all?

The Catalyst knew Shepard wanted to destroy or control the Reapers.He probably has mind reading.Therefore taking the form of the boy.Or maybe it's just that everyone sees the Catalyst in their own way.

 

[lex0r11]

Rosewind wrote...

Lex0r doesn't really answer things he more like the IT Thread master cheerleader or something.

I'm somewhat a little hurt AND aroused at the same time by this statement.

My head is not right.

But you are really such a loving person, wrong words were never intended.

Modifié par lex0r11, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:50 .

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Lex0r doesn't really answer things he more like the IT Thread master cheerleader or something.

I'm somewhat a little hurt AND aroused at the same time by this statement.

My head is not right.

lol take it as me getting back at you for implying I was loose with the way you worded that thing the other day

[lex0r11]

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

Modifié par lex0r11, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:44 .

[mass perfection]

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

[UltimateTobi]

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

[mass perfection]

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

He didn't offer it.He's just explaining what the Crucible can do.

[UltimateTobi]

mass perfection wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

He didn't offer it.He's just explaining what the Crucible can do.

Then I ask, why being mad at Shepard chosing Control, if he presented Control positively. Yet convincing Shepard choosing Control (or even Synthesis).

[lex0r11]

mass perfection wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

[...]

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

He didn't offer it.He's just explaining what the Crucible can do.

Supposedly. That thing cannot be trusted.
It would be like giving up without thinking about the situation after accepting all this.

Modifié par lex0r11, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:10 .

[mass perfection]

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

He didn't offer it.He's just explaining what the Crucible can do.

Then I ask, why being mad at Shepard chosing Control, if he presented Control positively. Yet convincing Shepard choosing Control (or even Synthesis).

It wants Synthesis.And it says in Control that you'll lose everything you have.

[UltimateTobi]

mass perfection wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

youtu.be/4gssML_aVmk#t=02m40s

Listen to how he describes every choice.

"Wipe out all synthetic life if you want"

"Even you are partly synthetic"

"The peace won't last"

The fact that the catalyst implies Shepard dying in destroy only to see the brath scene in the end doesn't help his credibility. Yeah, I know. Shepard is that awesome, maybe just luck.

But it just happens after destroy. Which was the GOAL the entire series to begin with.
Shepard doing things his/her way as always, believing all races will win still, not throwing everything out the airlock in the last second.

In addition, in destroy the holo "breaks" up. In the other endings, it stands there. Some people even reported a smirk in synthesis or control.

It sounds and feels clearly biased.

The goal was to stop the Reaper threat.In Control you can't really tell his facial expression.He might just be mad because he's being replaced by Shepard.

Why being mad at it if he offered it in the first place?

He didn't offer it.He's just explaining what the Crucible can do.

Then I ask, why being mad at Shepard chosing Control, if he presented Control positively. Yet convincing Shepard choosing Control (or even Synthesis).

It wants Synthesis.And it says in Control that you'll lose everything you have.

"But the Reapers will obey me?"
"Yes."

If that isn't convincing. Controlling all Reapers.