55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MaximizedAction]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

As it stands we have Buzz Aldrin telling a story to a kid...that was our adventure...every erotic moment, every disgusting alien, every gruesome battle the ast 2.9 games were a story being told to a child by his grandpa. if thats not as invalidating as "it was all a dream" its pretty damn close.


I personally have no problem with the "it was all a dream" trope but it has to be used right.

Wizard of Oz: incorrect usage (gets a free pass for being one of the first)
Gurren-Lagann: correct usage

I didn't see it that way. I just thought this was a whole life continues scene and the people who lived there started over with little to no tech.

Why dont they have tech though?

Unless its a specific destroy ending, they'd still have tech.

Apparently the game files also indicate that the stargazer scene takes place 10,000 years after the end of the game, meaning its 10,000 years later and our crew's descendants are still stranded on that damned planet with no tech.

Hell, Tali said give her element zero and a circuit board and she'd have it making precision FTL jumps, yet no one from the Normandy crash ever rebuilt a FTL ship of any kind?

The stargazer scene is just awful on so many levels

Well assuming that the ship is the only thing technological on the planet and it was mostly damaged, I can't see how they're able to make much out of it and would have to start civilization from scratch in all endings.

I'm with you on the stargazer ending, though.

We should worry about the 10,000 years later time stamp. That colony would probably be an incest filled hell hole with mostly Asari 

was it really 10K years later?

Supposedly the game files say that it is indeed 10k years later

My (optimistic) expectation is that the truth behind this 10k later scene is much more beautiful than a simple colony (incest) story.
It was suggested in the IT thread (don't remember which one) that the story results from the time capsule.
Besides, don't forget that if you had Javik you also got his memory stone for your last mission.
So there are a lot of other possibilities to pass on Shepard's story, besides shoving your crew on a far planet and let them reproduce...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 22 mai 2012 - 06:23 .

[blooregard]

dreamgazer wrote...

Quick question: as far as we know, we never see Shepard nurse an abdomen wound before the storm towards the conduit, right? I can't remember it anywhere.

The only other times I remember him grabbing his stomach is when he wakes up from project lazarus, when he wakes up near object Rho and when anderson says he's getting "soft around the edges"

But I'm pretty sure Shepard's wounded animation is the same as every wounded animation in the game (limping, hunched over holding their stomach)

[HellishFiend]

dreamgazer wrote...

Quick question: as far as we know, we never see Shepard nurse an abdomen wound before the storm towards the conduit, right? I can't remember it anywhere.

One of his idle animations has him placing his hand in that general area and staggering a little bit, but examination of the character model during this time yields no blood or wound visible in that area. 

Further, flycamming the TIM/Anderson scene reveals that Shepard's model switches to one with the extra blood on it just before the camera shifts to look at it. Then when go up to talk to starchild, it reverts back to the original model without the blood. 

[Big Bad]

blooregard wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

blooregard wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

blooregard wrote...

As it stands we have Buzz Aldrin telling a story to a kid...that was our adventure...every erotic moment, every disgusting alien, every gruesome battle the ast 2.9 games were a story being told to a child by his grandpa. if thats not as invalidating as "it was all a dream" its pretty damn close.


I personally have no problem with the "it was all a dream" trope but it has to be used right.

Wizard of Oz: incorrect usage (gets a free pass for being one of the first)
Gurren-Lagann: correct usage

I didn't see it that way. I just thought this was a whole life continues scene and the people who lived there started over with little to no tech.

Why dont they have tech though?

Unless its a specific destroy ending, they'd still have tech.

Apparently the game files also indicate that the stargazer scene takes place 10,000 years after the end of the game, meaning its 10,000 years later and our crew's descendants are still stranded on that damned planet with no tech.

Hell, Tali said give her element zero and a circuit board and she'd have it making precision FTL jumps, yet no one from the Normandy crash ever rebuilt a FTL ship of any kind?

The stargazer scene is just awful on so many levels

Well assuming that the ship is the only thing technological on the planet and it was mostly damaged, I can't see how they're able to make much out of it and would have to start civilization from scratch in all endings.

I'm with you on the stargazer ending, though.

We should worry about the 10,000 years later time stamp. That colony would probably be an incest filled hell hole with mostly Asari 

You mean mostly Ardat-Yakshi? And yeah that's also why I said I would rather wonder how they get a viable population going.

Since Ardat-Yakshis are the result of a recessive trait, unless Liara is a carrier there should not be any reason to worry.

Right, n



some deformities are recessive but repeated incestious breeding causes them to manifest in those who weren't carriers.

Right but since the mutation is not present to begin with, it would have to occur independently, which would presumably take several generations. The Asari would still be inbred as hell, but the population size would hopefully be large enough that it would be difficult for the A-Y condition to take over.

Of course, this whole discussion is sort of silly because three people is far too small to ever regain a population size that can resist extinction.

[dmay7]

My new theory.

Mass Effect: The Television Series.
Episode One - The Inner Light.
Synopsis - An alien probe controls and disables Commander Shepard, who wakes up as a Spectre, an officer of the Systems Alliance. While the crew of the Normandy tries to jar the probe's influence, "Spectre" Shepard lives through the dying years of the galaxy, trying to save them from "The Reapers"

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...


Right but since the mutation is not present to begin with, it would have to occur independently, which would presumably take several generations. The Asari would still be inbred as hell, but the population size would hopefully be large enough that it would be difficult for the A-Y condition to take over.

Of course, this whole discussion is sort of silly because three people is far too small to ever regain a population size that can resist extinction.

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...


Right but since the mutation is not present to begin with, it would have to occur independently, which would presumably take several generations. The Asari would still be inbred as hell, but the population size would hopefully be large enough that it would be difficult for the A-Y condition to take over.

Of course, this whole discussion is sort of silly because three people is far too small to ever regain a population size that can resist extinction.

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

[HellishFiend]

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a garden world, which specifically looks like a DLC world from ME2 that would have been impossible to get to while the mass relays are exploding, survived being knocked out of either ftl/mass relay jump and having its engines torn off, and landing in the middle of what looks like a forested mountain range, without disturbing ANY of the foliage, is grounds for immediate dismissal that the scene is real. 

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a garden world, which specifically looks like a DLC world from ME2 that would have been impossible to get to while the mass relays are exploding, survived being knocked out of either ftl/mass relay jump and having its engines torn off, and landing in the middle of what looks like a forested mountain range, without disturbing ANY of the foliage, is grounds for immediate dismissal that the scene is real. 

LOL. Very true!

[Dwailing]

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a garden world, which specifically looks like a DLC world from ME2 that would have been impossible to get to while the mass relays are exploding, survived being knocked out of either ftl/mass relay jump and having its engines torn off, and landing in the middle of what looks like a forested mountain range, without disturbing ANY of the foliage, is grounds for immediate dismissal that the scene is real. 

LOL. Very true!

Yeah, can't argue with that.  Also, just a heads up, at this point, I'm going to assume that Shepard was the one who completed all the DLC, default Shep be darned.  Also, I'm going to assume that all the Loyalty missions were completed.  Honestly, canon is something that ME has never really had.

Edit: Or if it did and/or does have it, it's always has been and/or will be very weird and hard to define.

Modifié par Dwailing, 22 mai 2012 - 07:06 .

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...
 Also, just a heads up, at this point, I'm going to assume that Shepard was the one who completed all the DLC, default Shep be darned.  Also, I'm going to assume that all the Loyalty missions were completed.  Honestly, canon is something that ME has never really had.

Edit: Or if it did and/or does have it, it's always has been and/or will be very weird and hard to define.

As far as I know, The only truly canonized events are the ones that are confirmed in the books and comics. They cleverly avoid touching on any subjects that involved player choice, so as not to canonize anything that would contradict anyone's playthrough. 

That being said, they did canonize Arrival in the most recent comic, which is fairly unprecedented. Thats a point for IT, in my book. 

[zombieord]

 Running through the Collector Base in ME2 and noticed this pile of bodies:



I remember seeing an IT theory video where a similar pile of bodies is seen near and on the citadel. Sorry if this has already been posted. Not sure what to make of this, especially since this appears to be a higher resolution version than what we see in ME3. Not sure if this is IT evidence or just more recycled resources for a rushed ending.

[Dwailing]

zombieord wrote...

 Running through the Collector Base in ME2 and noticed this pile of bodies:



I remember seeing an IT theory video where a similar pile of bodies is seen near and on the citadel. Sorry if this has already been posted. Not sure what to make of this, especially since this appears to be a higher resolution version than what we see in ME3. Not sure if this is IT evidence or just more recycled resources for a rushed ending.

I actually believe we do, in fact, see that particular corpse on the Citadel, suggesting that the bodies on the Citadel are just being created by Shepard's mind based on things he's already seen.  And yes, I know that many of you think of Shepard as a she, but I think of Shepard as a he, since I have not yet played FemShep and I personally prefer BroShep.

[Rosewind]

Rhing is those piles are 3d where as the one on the run to the conduit are just flat textures.

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...
 Also, just a heads up, at this point, I'm going to assume that Shepard was the one who completed all the DLC, default Shep be darned.  Also, I'm going to assume that all the Loyalty missions were completed.  Honestly, canon is something that ME has never really had.

Edit: Or if it did and/or does have it, it's always has been and/or will be very weird and hard to define.

As far as I know, The only truly canonized events are the ones that are confirmed in the books and comics. They cleverly avoid touching on any subjects that involved player choice, so as not to canonize anything that would contradict anyone's playthrough. 

That being said, they did canonize Arrival in the most recent comic, which is fairly unprecedented. Thats a point for IT, in my book. 

Exactly.  They've always been so careful about that that I find it hard to believe that Mac would do that for no reason.

[blooregard]

Dwailing wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a garden world, which specifically looks like a DLC world from ME2 that would have been impossible to get to while the mass relays are exploding, survived being knocked out of either ftl/mass relay jump and having its engines torn off, and landing in the middle of what looks like a forested mountain range, without disturbing ANY of the foliage, is grounds for immediate dismissal that the scene is real. 

LOL. Very true!

Yeah, can't argue with that.  Also, just a heads up, at this point, I'm going to assume that Shepard was the one who completed all the DLC, default Shep be darned.  Also, I'm going to assume that all the Loyalty missions were completed.  Honestly, canon is something that ME has never really had.

Edit: Or if it did and/or does have it, it's always has been and/or will be very weird and hard to define.

the ME canon is limited to the comics, books and general plots of the games (stopping Saren, beating the Collectors, Fighting the Reapers)

Though it should be noted that ME: Conviction (a comic) states that Shepard did blow up the alpha relay meaning that Arrival is considered canon.

[Dwailing]

Rosewind wrote...

Rhing is those piles are 3d where as the one on the run to the conduit are just flat textures.

The one's around the Conduit are flat textures, but the bodies on the Citadel actually have models as well as textures.  And we see that exact corpse on the Citadel repeatedly.

[MegumiAzusa]

Dwailing wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Ostensibly the other human female crewmembers of the Normandy survived. I dont remember the exact crew count on the ship, if they ever said it, but there could feasibly be enough to grow a population. Not that I'm defending face value or anything, but we cant exactly point a finger at that as proof of IT. 

Oh yeah, I did not mean to imply that what I was saying supported IT. I just find the whole scenario to be unrealistic, and I have a hard time suspending my disbelief...probably because I'm a biologist (ok, technically i am only a grad student!).

As far as I'm concerned, the fact that the Normandy crash landed on a garden world, which specifically looks like a DLC world from ME2 that would have been impossible to get to while the mass relays are exploding, survived being knocked out of either ftl/mass relay jump and having its engines torn off, and landing in the middle of what looks like a forested mountain range, without disturbing ANY of the foliage, is grounds for immediate dismissal that the scene is real. 

LOL. Very true!

Yeah, can't argue with that.  Also, just a heads up, at this point, I'm going to assume that Shepard was the one who completed all the DLC, default Shep be darned.  Also, I'm going to assume that all the Loyalty missions were completed.  Honestly, canon is something that ME has never really had.

Edit: Or if it did and/or does have it, it's always has been and/or will be very weird and hard to define.

like Wash.

[Unit-Alpha]

I still think the IT is possible, but one thing has me wondering about at least one element.

Remember the GX12 thermal pipe? The one that was supposed to help prevent the engine from venting into the engineering compartment? Well, it was only supposed to be necessary if the Normandy underwent extreme conditions that would tear the ship apart. Conditions like the Normandy crash. Seems strange that they would have dialog from 4 VAs plus a mini mission just as a red herring. So what if the Normandy crash actually happened? IT could still be viable.

[blooregard]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

I still think the IT is possible, but one thing has me wondering about at least one element.

Remember the GX12 thermal pipe? The one that was supposed to help prevent the engine from venting into the engineering compartment? Well, it was only supposed to be necessary if the Normandy underwent extreme conditions that would tear the ship apart. Conditions like the Normandy crash. Seems strange that they would have dialog from 4 VAs plus a mini mission just as a red herring. So what if the Normandy crash actually happened? IT could still be viable.

If I recall correctly it wasn't if the ship crashed it was when the drive core was under serious enough pressure that it vents plasma into the engineering compartment. Adams states that under the conditions that would cause that the ship is likely to go down anyway.

The biggest issue is the Normandy being ripped out of mass relay transit (probably faster then the usual FTL) where it was stated in ME1 that being forced ot of FTL would desintegrate the ship.

[dreamgazer]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

I still think the IT is possible, but one thing has me wondering about at least one element.

Remember the GX12 thermal pipe? The one that was supposed to help prevent the engine from venting into the engineering compartment? Well, it was only supposed to be necessary if the Normandy underwent extreme conditions that would tear the ship apart. Conditions like the Normandy crash. Seems strange that they would have dialog from 4 VAs plus a mini mission just as a red herring. So what if the Normandy crash actually happened? IT could still be viable.

Very much.  With just a little more exposition (clarity), it's entirely possible to make sense of what happened and still reveal that Shepard was suffering and bending to the symptoms of indoctrination. 

[spotlessvoid]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

I still think the IT is possible, but one thing has me wondering about at least one element.

Remember the GX12 thermal pipe? The one that was supposed to help prevent the engine from venting into the engineering compartment? Well, it was only supposed to be necessary if the Normandy underwent extreme conditions that would tear the ship apart. Conditions like the Normandy crash. Seems strange that they would have dialog from 4 VAs plus a mini mission just as a red herring. So what if the Normandy crash actually happened? IT could still be viable.

It's not even necessarily a red herring. upgrading the Normandy is a natural part of the narrative. And if it is a red herring, well it serves two purposes

[Tirian Thorn]

dmay7 wrote...

My new theory.

Mass Effect: The Television Series.
Episode One - The Inner Light.
Synopsis - An alien probe controls and disables Commander Shepard, who wakes up as a Spectre, an officer of the Systems Alliance. While the crew of the Normandy tries to jar the probe's influence, "Spectre" Shepard lives through the dying years of the galaxy, trying to save them from "The Reapers"

And the flute is inside the probe. 

[DJBare]

EpyonX3 wrote...


It's not likely that the limbic system is vulnerable during all of this activity since it's in defense mode from being attacked by pain signals. So an attack by indoctrination wouldn't work in Shepard's hurt state.

But there is no pain if Shepard is unconscious, and even if there were pain, then we can consider that's why Shepard has a fighting chance against indoctrination, it does not mean the reapers are not trying to indoctrinate Shepard hence all the funky stuff after the laser hits.

[blooregard]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

dmay7 wrote...

My new theory.

Mass Effect: The Television Series.
Episode One - The Inner Light.
Synopsis - An alien probe controls and disables Commander Shepard, who wakes up as a Spectre, an officer of the Systems Alliance. While the crew of the Normandy tries to jar the probe's influence, "Spectre" Shepard lives through the dying years of the galaxy, trying to save them from "The Reapers"

And the flute is inside the probe. 

I personally think they could get away with a mass effect TV series where the 3 games transition over to 3 seasons and the books/comics transition over to movies or mini series

DLCs may be mini series too.