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[RavenEyry]

Rosewind wrote...
SIlly monocles don't talk they just look fancy.

You clearly haven't met my monocle.

[MaximizedAction]

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 juillet 2012 - 11:32 .

[UltimateTobi]

As long as they keep that stand, IT is a valid interpretation. Which means IT is alive. Though if it's definitive canon or not I can't say.
Though I am happy that BioWare doesn't make statements against IT at least.

Only BioWare has the power to destroy the IT, by a little sentence. If they have a definitive idea of their story, and IT wouldn't be true, I guess they'd tell us. But they don't. So either they haven't a definitive idea for their story, or IT is true.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 12 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .

[Eryri]

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

I think if they keep it ambiguous like this, they're just going to end up frustrating the fanbase. I really would prefer it if they just came out and said one way or the other. I would hate it if IT turned out not to be true, but at least I could move on then.

I was ready to call it quits after the disappointment of the EC, but then the leaks for Leviathan came out and I was intrigued all over again.

"Just when I think I'm out... they keep pulling me back in!"

[TSA_383]

Eryri wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

I think if they keep it ambiguous like this, they're just going to end up frustrating the fanbase. I really would prefer it if they just came out and said one way or the other. I would hate it if IT turned out not to be true, but at least I could move on then.

I was ready to call it quits after the disappointment of the EC, but then the leaks for Leviathan came out and I was intrigued all over again.

"Just when I think I'm out... they keep pulling me back in!"

This is precisely why they've not done it yet, they don't want you to move on

Think about it from a business perspective. You'd do it towards the end of the DLC cycle, possibly paving the way for ME4 (or perhaps a series of ME3 single-player DLCs?)

[Rosewind]

Eryri wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

I think if they keep it ambiguous like this, they're just going to end up frustrating the fanbase. I really would prefer it if they just came out and said one way or the other. I would hate it if IT turned out not to be true, but at least I could move on then.

I was ready to call it quits after the disappointment of the EC, but then the leaks for Leviathan came out and I was intrigued all over again.

"Just when I think I'm out... they keep pulling me back in!"

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

[UltimateTobi]

Rosewind wrote...

Eryri wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

I think if they keep it ambiguous like this, they're just going to end up frustrating the fanbase. I really would prefer it if they just came out and said one way or the other. I would hate it if IT turned out not to be true, but at least I could move on then.

I was ready to call it quits after the disappointment of the EC, but then the leaks for Leviathan came out and I was intrigued all over again.

"Just when I think I'm out... they keep pulling me back in!"

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

Yeah, they've put in new hints and speculative material.
If they wouldn't mean IT to be true, they would've removes all speculative material and the hints, and would've not added new ones.
But they did it the other way round. Leaving the old, even when they had a chance to remove them, and even added new ones.

They fixed such a tiny bug on Mars, which I didn't even noticed, and honestly cared about. But obvious things like crappy 2D-Ashleys-Kaidans, no blood when the IM shoots himself, etc.

[Eryri]

TSA_383 wrote...

This is precisely why they've not done it yet, they don't want you to move on

Think about it from a business perspective. You'd do it towards the end of the DLC cycle, possibly paving the way for ME4 (or perhaps a series of ME3 single-player DLCs?)

That does make sense. I just hope they can maintain interest until the big reveal at the end of the DLC cycle. I would hate for EA to pull the funding before Bioware gets to make "The Truth" or whatever they call it.

They'll probably keep teasing us with little bits of ambiguous stuff in the up-coming single player DLC. The dialogue in the Lethiathan leak implies that it gets inside Shepard's head and communicates with him/her. I wonder if there will be a conversation with Leviathan along the lines of:

LEVIATHAN: Shepard - Do not trust the child!

SHEPARD: What? How could you know...?

LEVIATHAN: The burning child Shepard! Do not trust it. It lies!

I'd be seriously intrigued if they did something like that. Surely they will have to mention something about the catalyst? Especially if Shepard gets to learn about the Leviathans being forced to become the first reaper?

Maybe Shepard will meet up with the Consort again in the Retake Omega DLC and get another "prophesy"?

Modifié par Eryri, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .

[Eryri]

Rosewind wrote...

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

Actually my favourite part of that is Harbinger's "Serve us!" line. I know it's similar to noises that the reapers make in other parts of the game, but it was definitely deliberately added to the beam run for the EC.

It's the biggest clue that Harbinger deliberately attenuated his beam and let Shepard live IMHO- after all, how could Shepard serve anything if s/he's dead?

Modifié par Eryri, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:11 .

[UltimateTobi]

Eryri wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

This is precisely why they've not done it yet, they don't want you to move on

Think about it from a business perspective. You'd do it towards the end of the DLC cycle, possibly paving the way for ME4 (or perhaps a series of ME3 single-player DLCs?)

That does make sense. I just hope they can maintain interest until the big reveal at the end of the DLC cycle. I would hate for EA to pull the funding before Bioware gets to make "The Truth" or whatever they call it.

They'll probably keep teasing us with little bits of ambiguous stuff in the up-coming single player DLC. The dialogue in the Lethiathan leak implies that it gets inside Shepard's head. I wonder if there will be a conversation with Leviathan along the lines of:

LEVIATHAN: Shepard - Do not trust the child!

SHEPARD: What? How could you know...?

LEVIATHAN: The burning child Shepard! Do not trust it. It lies!

I'd be seriously intrigued if they did something like that. Surely they will have to mention something about the catalyst? Especially if Shepard gets to learn about the Leviathans being forced to become the first reaper?

Maybe Shepard will meet up with the Consort again in the Retake Omega DLC and get another "prophesy"?

Controlling the Leviathan, i.e. sitting in the "cockpit", like Saren did on Sovereign, and fighting space battles against other Reapers. That'd be cool.

Either way, Leviathan denying the Catalyst, or at least some form of a higher "being" which controls the Reaper would be an awesome favor to the IT.

I am looking damn forward to Leviathan DLC.

[Eryri]

UltimateTobi wrote...


Controlling the Leviathan, i.e. sitting in the "cockpit", like Saren did on Sovereign, and fighting space battles against other Reapers. That'd be cool.

Oh God yes! 

Space battles are one thing that's been conspicuously absent from ME. Piloting a Reaper, or even the Normandy in the final space battle would be all kinds of awesome!

Modifié par Eryri, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

Before I go to bed, to be honest, sounds like a whole lot of nothing, them claiming to not be proscriptive, yet by the very nature of having written the story they did have SOMETHING in mind. They're right now giving this "Whatever you think happened is canon" excuse, even though you cannot build a franchise on that, and they WILL have to take a stance at some point, either that or never ever touch anything near the subject of Shepard again, which with the sheer amount of massive changes to the setting either requires abandoning Mass Effect, which they simply will not do for financial reasons alone, or is simply impossible.

Basically, we're being told to decide our own canon for now, and they wouldn't dare tread on it, but for the fact if they want to keep making games, they have to at some point.

Also, note that he DOES admit Bioware has it's own interpretation. They're just claiming for now it's no more or less important than ours, which is simply baffling. I would chalk this up to it coming through a third party source, rather than from the lips of say Gamble or Hudson themselves. It could mean they simply want us to decide and determine for ourselves, until they show their own veiw on it. In short, they're not going to rock the boat until most of the complainers are gone.

[UltimateTobi]

Arian Dynas wrote...

In short, they're not going to rock the boat until most of the complainers are gone.

When that happens, we're the last thread standing.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:14 .

[RavenEyry]

Eryri wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

Actually my favourite part of that is Harbinger's "Serve us!" line. I know it's similar to noises that the reapers make in other parts of the game, but it was definitely deliberately added to the beam run for the EC.

It's the biggest clue that Harbinger deliberately attenuated his beam and let Shepard live IMHO- after all, how could Shepard serve anything if s/he's dead?

I also noticed in the refuse ending Mr. Sparkle slips into Harby's voice.

[Macross]

Eryri wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...


Controlling the Leviathan, i.e. sitting in the "cockpit", like Saren did on Sovereign, and fighting space battles against other Reapers. That'd be cool.

Oh God yes! 

Space battles are one thing that's been conspicuously absent from ME. Piloting a Reaper, or even the Normandy in the final space battle would be all kinds of awesome!

Bioware should totally go Gurren Lagann on this. You pilot the Normandy while it's in a Reaper controlling it, while said Reaper is on/ in the Crucible, controlling it, while the Curible is connected to and controlling the Citadel... and the Citadel is shooting gian lazors at the Enemy invaders...

I have watched way to much TTGL lately.  

EDIT: And the Catalyst can have it's own Citadel and then after we fight it and both blow up we get into a Fist fight with the Catalyst and punch the hell out of the whiny brat... Hey, it worked for Simon. 

Modifié par Macross, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:34 .

[UltimateTobi]

Macross wrote...

Eryri wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...


Controlling the Leviathan, i.e. sitting in the "cockpit", like Saren did on Sovereign, and fighting space battles against other Reapers. That'd be cool.

Oh God yes! 

Space battles are one thing that's been conspicuously absent from ME. Piloting a Reaper, or even the Normandy in the final space battle would be all kinds of awesome!

Bioware should totally go Gurren Lagann on this. You pilot the Normandy while it's in a Reaper controlling it, while said Reaper is on/ in the Crucible, controlling it, while the Curible is connected to and controlling the Citadel... and the Citadel is shooting gian lazors at the Enemy invaders...

I have watched way to much TTGL lately.  

Driving the Citadel as a giant warship? Hm... manuevering might get a little complicated, but I bet it has firepower...

[Macross]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

Eryri wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...


Controlling the Leviathan, i.e. sitting in the "cockpit", like Saren did on Sovereign, and fighting space battles against other Reapers. That'd be cool.

Oh God yes! 

Space battles are one thing that's been conspicuously absent from ME. Piloting a Reaper, or even the Normandy in the final space battle would be all kinds of awesome!

Bioware should totally go Gurren Lagann on this. You pilot the Normandy while it's in a Reaper controlling it, while said Reaper is on/ in the Crucible, controlling it, while the Curible is connected to and controlling the Citadel... and the Citadel is shooting gian lazors at the Enemy invaders...

I have watched way to much TTGL lately.  

Driving the Citadel as a giant warship? Hm... manuevering might get a little complicated, but I bet it has firepower...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind. 

[UltimateTobi]

Macross wrote...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind.

I'd steer the Citadel to Earth, ramming all Reapers on my way and crashing the Citadel afterward. Directly on London. Hell of an explosion I'd say. And many dead Reapers.

[CoolioThane]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind.

I'd steer the Citadel to Earth, ramming all Reapers on my way and crashing the Citadel afterward. Directly on London. Hell of an explosion I'd say. And many dead Reapers.

Vandalism!

[Macross]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind.

I'd steer the Citadel to Earth, ramming all Reapers on my way and crashing the Citadel afterward. Directly on London. Hell of an explosion I'd say. And many dead Reapers.

And then Anderson will look at the crater the was once London (and a majorit of Europe and the Artic, I'd assume) and say. 'London, I was born there.' And Shepard (who some how surivived) will reply with 'I didn't know that' despite the fact that Andersons told him atleast twice already. 

[UltimateTobi]

CoolioThane wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind.

I'd steer the Citadel to Earth, ramming all Reapers on my way and crashing the Citadel afterward. Directly on London. Hell of an explosion I'd say. And many dead Reapers.

Vandalism!

Tactical advantage for the next cycle. No Citadel anymore = no way for the Reapers to return when needed.

Well... no central place for government for other races too I guess. Ooops.

[Macross]

Macross wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

Yes.... the reapers will have flexibility but we'll have reach... of the giant death ray kind.

I'd steer the Citadel to Earth, ramming all Reapers on my way and crashing the Citadel afterward. Directly on London. Hell of an explosion I'd say. And many dead Reapers.

And then Anderson will look at the crater the was once London (and a majority of Europe and the Artic, I'd assume) and say. 'London, I was born there.' And Shepard (who some how surivived) will reply with 'I didn't know that' despite the fact that Andersons told him atleast twice already. 

[UltimateTobi]

Macross wrote...

And then Anderson will look at the crater the was once London (and a majority of Europe and the Artic, I'd assume) and say. 'London, I was born there.' And Shepard (who some how surivived) will reply with 'I didn't know that' despite the fact that Andersons told him atleast twice already.

Then the 3rd time I guess.

If he even recognizes London again. Maybe he mistakes it with Barcelona. I bet the British isle doesn't exist anymore afterward. xD

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

[MetioricTest]

^ Marty McFly ran it, kicked Frodo in the shin and ran off with the ring for his adventures