55528 réponses à ce sujet

[UltimateTobi]

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

Not being able to make a "sequel" to the ME franchise would hurt the business I guess. If they'd do a ME4, then without Shepard.

I honestly would like to see a ME RTS, like SOASE (Sins of a Solar Empire). I mean, if done well, it'd be awesome. Imagine how many factions you could have. Massive space battles. Inclusive with a story line, and kept as near-science as possible. Like ME is.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:17 .

[CoolioThane]

FFFUUUUUU Marty!

[Rosewind]

RavenEyry wrote...

Eryri wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

Actually my favourite part of that is Harbinger's "Serve us!" line. I know it's similar to noises that the reapers make in other parts of the game, but it was definitely deliberately added to the beam run for the EC.

It's the biggest clue that Harbinger deliberately attenuated his beam and let Shepard live IMHO- after all, how could Shepard serve anything if s/he's dead?

I also noticed in the refuse ending Mr. Sparkle slips into Harby's voice.

I call it Starbingers demonic possession moment

[Macross]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

And then Anderson will look at the crater the was once London (and a majority of Europe and the Artic, I'd assume) and say. 'London, I was born there.' And Shepard (who some how surivived) will reply with 'I didn't know that' despite the fact that Andersons told him atleast twice already.

Then the 3rd time I guess.

If he even recognizes London again. Maybe he mistakes it with Barcelona. I bet the British isle doesn't exist anymore afterward. xD

'I was born in London' 

'I didn't know that. Also, your pointing a Barcelona'

'Apart of me knew that. Apart of me knew it.' 

'Annnd, now your pointing at Moscow, Berlin... Australia. Your just messing with me aren't you?'

[UltimateTobi]

Macross wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Macross wrote...

And then Anderson will look at the crater the was once London (and a majority of Europe and the Artic, I'd assume) and say. 'London, I was born there.' And Shepard (who some how surivived) will reply with 'I didn't know that' despite the fact that Andersons told him atleast twice already.

Then the 3rd time I guess.

If he even recognizes London again. Maybe he mistakes it with Barcelona. I bet the British isle doesn't exist anymore afterward. xD

'I was born in London' 

'I didn't know that. Also, your pointing a Barcelona'

'Apart of me knew that. Apart of me knew it.' 

'Annnd, now your pointing at Moscow, Berlin... Australia. Your just messing with me aren't you?'

"No god damn, I just don't recognize Earth! Don't you see that? All of it could be London... where I was born by the way.
Besides that, Earth looks like it has been split in half."

[RavenEyry]

Macross wrote...
'I was born in London' 

'I didn't know that. Also, your pointing a Barcelona'

'Apart of me knew that. Apart of me knew it.' 

'Annnd, now your pointing at Moscow, Berlin... Australia. Your just messing with me aren't you?'

'What about that one?'

'That's a tractor.'

'I see...'

[UltimateTobi]

RavenEyry wrote...

Macross wrote...
'I was born in London' 

'I didn't know that. Also, your pointing a Barcelona'

'Apart of me knew that. Apart of me knew it.' 

'Annnd, now your pointing at Moscow, Berlin... Australia. Your just messing with me aren't you?'

'What about that one?'

'That's a tractor.'

'I see...'

"Look, that's Earth, I was born there."

"No, that's the moon."

"Hell, it all looks the same now."

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:25 .

[RavenEyry]

UltimateTobi wrote...
"Hell, it all looks the same now."

Synthesis!

[Macross]

RavenEyry wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...
"Hell, it all looks the same now."

Synthesis!

And then Shepard was a reaper...

[Andromidius]

Yeah, well my point really was that they can't keep up the 'no official canon' stance if they ever want to sell another Mass Effect game. Unless they do prequels.

They can't really do what they did with previous ME games and either handwave minor plotpoints or make them both essential equal the same outcome.

Synthesis, if what it says on the tin is correct, essentially ends the need for future conflict.
Control, if what is says on the tin is correct, essentially makes the Reapers the Galactic Police Force.
Destroy, if what is says on the tin is correct, blows it all to hell.
And Refuse, if what is says on the tin is correct, means we lose.

There's zero possibility of a sequel unless they pick one as canon. Or pick a new canon. Hint hint.

[smokingotter1]

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

Something like this is easier to write and cheaper to develop. I still believe in IT, but there is doubt that keeps nagging me saying- the Bioware team needed more time and money, Casey Hudson felt that they didn't have the time or budget to give the multiple satisfying endings the fans craved. They worked on IT being part of the end but could not get it to work so they fudged and keeped the ending purposely ambigous to add lots of speculation and to give a question to which there will never be an answer because that stuff drives fan wild.

I call this the budget constraint theory, as opposed to literalists who take everything at face value.

[MaximizedAction]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

Not being able to make a "sequel" to the ME franchise would hurt the business I guess. If they'd do a ME4, then without Shepard.

I honestly would like to see a ME RTS, like SOASE (Sins of a Solar Empire). I mean, if done well, it'd be awesome. Imagine how many factions you could have. Massive space battles. Inclusive with a story line, and kept as near-science as possible. Like ME is.

I'd love an RTS in the likes of a Nexus-The Jupiter Incident. That's my favorite RTS and I'd love ME to get such a beauty. SOASE is more strategic, and doesn't have that much of a killer-story. So I'm not sure if a classic RTS game is something for Bioware.
Nexus however was visually beautiful and had a memorable story.

And honestly, after that skycab chase in LOTSB and those space minigames in SWOTR I expected ME3 to have something similar. That way they'll be able to see if fans would dig a seperate space RTS game set in the ME universe. Ah well, maybe in some SP DLC...or maybe even an MP DLC?

@Andro
That LOTR analogy fits pretty well. If Tolkien would've done something like that, I wonder how the future in novels would've looked like today.
But It somehow makes the hair on my neck stand when thinking about a future in story writing where "endings are sooo old-school".
Nah, the more I think about it, I hope Bioware is just playing its game of half-truths where, at the end, they will take a stand, give the players all the stuff they promised shortly before ME3's release and all shall be forgiven and money shall be thrown at Bioware.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:46 .

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

And honestly, after that skycab chase in LOTSB and those space minigames in SWOTR I expected ME3 to have something similar. That way they'll be able to see if fans would dig a seperate space RTS game set in the ME universe. Ah well, maybe in some SP DLC...or maybe even an MP DLC?

I'd have liked to have a section or two where we are commanding the Normandy in a space battle, in a proper 3D free roaming situation.

But alas.

[ThisOneIsPunny]

MaximizedAction wrote...

UltimateTobi wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

Not being able to make a "sequel" to the ME franchise would hurt the business I guess. If they'd do a ME4, then without Shepard.

I honestly would like to see a ME RTS, like SOASE (Sins of a Solar Empire). I mean, if done well, it'd be awesome. Imagine how many factions you could have. Massive space battles. Inclusive with a story line, and kept as near-science as possible. Like ME is.

I'd love an RTS in the likes of a Nexus-The Jupiter Incident. That's my favorite RTS and I'd love ME to get such a beauty. SOASE is more strategic, and doesn't have that much of a killer-story. So I'm not sure if a classic RTS game is something for Bioware.
Nexus however was visually beautiful and had a memorable story.

And honestly, after that skycab chase in LOTSB and those space minigames in SWOTR I expected ME3 to have something similar. That way they'll be able to see if fans would dig a seperate space RTS game set in the ME universe. Ah well, maybe in some SP DLC...or maybe even an MP DLC?

Maybe we'll get a submarine minigame with the leviathan dlc. Like the submarine mini game from FF7, except not really because the controls for that were mildly annoying and painful. I would enjoy a good RTS though.

[MegumiAzusa]

UltimateTobi wrote...

Rosewind wrote...

Eryri wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

So I found this thread and the reply from mod Tully:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/13088100&lf=8

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

I think if they keep it ambiguous like this, they're just going to end up frustrating the fanbase. I really would prefer it if they just came out and said one way or the other. I would hate it if IT turned out not to be true, but at least I could move on then.

I was ready to call it quits after the disappointment of the EC, but then the leaks for Leviathan came out and I was intrigued all over again.

"Just when I think I'm out... they keep pulling me back in!"

Disappointment of the EC? If anything I think the EC helped us in ways.

Yeah, they've put in new hints and speculative material.
If they wouldn't mean IT to be true, they would've removes all speculative material and the hints, and would've not added new ones.
But they did it the other way round. Leaving the old, even when they had a chance to remove them, and even added new ones.

They fixed such a tiny bug on Mars, which I didn't even noticed, and honestly cared about. But obvious things like crappy 2D-Ashleys-Kaidans, no blood when the IM shoots himself, etc.

Again: they didn't even touch Mars. If something has changed it's a side effect.

[Leonia]

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

If they are going to release some sort of IT DLC/continuation DLC, etc. (as Arian's or TSA's models suggest) then they will have to take a stand, right? It's not possible to design a story that is both, a fully fleshed out story AND remains ambiguous about whether Shep has been indoc. or not?

I personally can't think of a way, but I'm also no literature expert or writer. But that generally doesn't mean it's not possible..so I'm asking the experts here...

The ONLY way I see them being able to do this is if they keep releasing DLC that adds to the speculations, but never gives a definite answer.  And to never release ME4, as a sequel at least.  The only way an open ended interpretation can work is if its literally open ended.

It would be like if Lord of the Rings ended with Frodo about to drop the ring into the fires of Mount Doom.  The reader is left to speculate what happens - does he drop it, or does he keep it?  Then extra chapters are added which barely reference Frodo's quest, only suggesting that whatever he did caused massive things to happen.  But we never see Frodo again, or get an answer to what happened - all we know is the Orcs have fled, and the clouds have retreated back to Mordor.

Let's hope not. Tonnes of stories have ended conclusively but in such a manner that the door was left open for future installments, happens a lot in TV shows and sometimes with games. As ME3 stands now, I'm not sure whether I got closure or not and the endless speculating which used to be fun is starting to drive me slightly mad because I don't know anything for sure, it all feels up in the air until clarification is given about the future of the series (and I mean more than "it will make sense, trust us!"). Seriously, I am starting to get irritated by the premise that we have been given an incomplete product and must now wait for more.

[dreamgazer]

leonia42 wrote...

Let's hope not. Tonnes of stories have ended conclusively but in such a manner that the door was left open for future installments, happens a lot in TV shows and sometimes with games. As ME3 stands now, I'm not sure whether I got closure or not and the endless speculating which used to be fun is starting to drive me slightly mad because I don't know anything for sure, it all feels up in the air until clarification is given about the future of the series (and I mean more than "it will make sense, trust us!"). Seriously, I am starting to get irritated by the premise that we have been given an incomplete product and must now wait for more.

Lots of people are starting to feel this way, unfortunately.

As a supporter, I'm personally fine with them leaving a version of the theory as an interpretation that coexists with a literal outlook (that's how interpretation exists the best, something I've kept in mind from the start), but they've got to find a way with the upcoming DLC to give the whole thing---interpretations, context, closure---more of a concrete shape.  I don't doubt that they will.

[Macross]

So. When is Bioware's stuff at Comic-Con and what do you guys expect to hear there IT related?

[Unschuld]

Macross wrote...

So. When is Bioware's stuff at Comic-Con and what do you guys expect to hear there IT related?

Absolutely nothing, but at the very best some ambiguous statements that will have both die-hard sides of the arguement proving each other false and saying NO U to each other.

[Macross]

Excellent, because if there is anything we need more of it's more ammunition on one another.

You know, the reapers handled the invasion of the galaxy wrong. They should have just given humans super weapons and pointed them towards the rest of galactic society and said 'Hey they said your mums are fat.

[EpyonX3]

Unschuld wrote...

Macross wrote...

So. When is Bioware's stuff at Comic-Con and what do you guys expect to hear there IT related?

Absolutely nothing, but at the very best some ambiguous statements that will have both die-hard sides of the arguement proving each other false and saying NO U to each other.

This.

[dreamgazer]

Unschuld wrote...

Macross wrote...

So. When is Bioware's stuff at Comic-Con and what do you guys expect to hear there IT related?

Absolutely nothing, but at the very best some ambiguous statements that will have both die-hard sides of the arguement proving each other false and saying NO U to each other.

Yep.

[Big_Boss9]

Macross wrote...

So. When is Bioware's stuff at Comic-Con and what do you guys expect to hear there IT related?

The Mass Effect panel is Saturday evening. If someone asks an IT question, I expect a similar (from PAX, I believe) coy response from Gamble et al and little else. Hints at the Leviathan DLC as well, but I'm not getting my hopes up about that having much of an impact outside of the DLC other than some additional conversation options and EMS. We'll see.

Modifié par Big_Boss9, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:45 .

[demersel]

About bioware taking a stand on IT.


Look, guys. I am a filmmaker. I make short movies, and plan to move up to making full feature in the nearest future. I've already made three shorts that have been shown on some international film festivals.
So i think i can tell you, from an artist's point of view -
there is nothing worse for me than to be forced to come in front of the screen after my movie has been shown, and then explain what it was about, and what i meant to soy by it. Everything that had and wanted to say - i already put that into the film you have just seen. Sometimes my film can be open ended, provoking a thought process, about what have happened and why - I know what have happened. I know why. In every little detail (and i have to - after all, i did have to plan it all to make the movie) BUT - i wil NEVER tell you what to think of it. NEVER. That's what freedom of interpretation means. I, as a film maker tell you a story. To tell it, I have to know what that story is, so i can choose how to tell it to you in a most entertaining way. But what to make of it as you hae heard it - is up to you.

My point is in regards of ME3 and the IT - they will never tell you straight whether or not the IT is true, as in twitter posts py stuff and producers, interviews or press releases. BUT they are perfectly free to realese a peace of content that clerly shows one way or the other throught the INGAME events.

Side note - and judging by the way they behave, and comment and post on twitter - they really can't wait to do so - it's literally killing them - they are so pleased with themselves they are about to explode. ))))

[senshi420]

 well hurray for Earth multiplayer DLC at any rate, Arian Dynas may just be a wizard that can see the future. 

looking forward to being destroyed in platinum difficulty as well...great fun

on SDCC, I too think they will just play the middle road, officially announce the leviathan on di's DLC maybe, who knows.

on the idea that the game needs to "end" to stop stringing us along, while i may wish for it to "take more form" as was expressed in an earlier post, I by no means want it to end, keep it comming, I'd rather have a game that had an active dlc cycle then just gave it all up right away and then silence. I sunk about 30 hours into me3 before all dlc, im ok with that for content, knowing more is comming. at least it wasnt The force unleashed 2, I beat that in 4 hours. soul crushingly short that game was.
I wish the EC was what we got out of the box..but it is a moot point as, for now, it is a free download, like a major patch or something.